It's really about football (secondarily basketball performance) + a collection of other things to give one an edge of another equalish team, most importantly, on their way up in athletic budget or expansion.

BEST CUSA/MAC/SBC CONFERENCE (not necessarily in order of best to worst; Limited to 12 to keep best-of):

NEW BEST G5 CONF:
1. BYU
2. NIU
3. Marshall
4. Toledo
5. W Kentucky
6. GA-Southern
7. App-State
8. LA-Tech
9. Ohio
10. Southern Miss
11. Bowling Green
12. Arkansas State

LEFTOVER CONF ("NEW" MAC):
1. WMU
2. CMU
3. Mid-Tenn State
4. LA-Lafayette
5. Rice
6. Buffalo
7. UMass
8. Akron
9. Georgia State
10. Ball State
11. Kent State
12. Troy
13. Old Dominion
14. Miami-OH

LEFTOVER LEFTOVERS ("NEW" Sun Belt):
1. FL Atlantic
2. FL International
3. Charlotte
4. South Alabama
5. Idaho
6. New Mexico State
7. Texas San Antonio
8. LA-Monroe
9. Texas State
10. North Texas
11. EMU
12. UTEP
13. Army

(12-19-2015 06:48 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  It's really about football (secondarily basketball performance) + a collection of other things to give one an edge of another equalish team, most importantly, on their way up in athletic budget or expansion.

BEST CUSA/MAC/SBC CONFERENCE (not necessarily in order of best to worst; Limited to 12 to keep best-of):

NEW BEST G5 CONF:
1. BYU
2. NIU
3. Marshall
4. Toledo
5. W Kentucky
6. GA-Southern
7. App-State
8. LA-Tech
9. Ohio
10. Southern Miss
11. Bowling Green
12. Arkansas State

First, note that with Utah in the Pac12, no way BYU is going to join a "not even a best of the rest conference" below the level of the AAC. After all, it could have joined the Old Big East, when they were trawling for members and before they lost AQ status. So that train has left the station already.

And that conference is not a big enough step up from the "Old MAC" to justify the extra travel for Toledo or Bowling Green, who would move together or stay together. So we can move those two into the incumbent members of the "New MAC". (Just to play along, I'll not quibble about OhioU leaving MiamiU behind ... it will just have to play the Battle of the Bricks games OOC in this scenario):

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.1:
1. NIU
2. Marshall
3. W Kentucky
4. GA-Southern
5. App-State
6. LA-Tech
7. Ohio
8. Southern Miss
9. Arkansas State

New MAC v2.1:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Mid-Tenn State
6. LA-Lafayette
7. Rice
8. Buffalo
9. UMass
10. Akron
11. Georgia State
12. Ball State
13. Kent State
14. Troy
15. Old Dominion
16. Miami-OH

... nor is it worth it for CMU or WMU to move to the "New Second or 3rd Best G5 CONF" from the Old MAC, so filling nine to twelve drops down to the three spots below them:

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.2:
1. NIU (MAC)
2. Marshall (CUSA)
3. W Kentucky (CUSA)
4. GA-Southern (SBC)
5. App-State (SBC)
6. LA-Tech (CUSA)
7. Ohio (MAC)
8. Southern Miss (CUSA)
9. Arkansas State (SBC)
10. Mid-Tenn State (CUSA)
11. LA-Lafayette (SBC)
12. Rice (CUSA)

New MAC 2.2:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Georgia State
9. Ball State
10. Kent State
11. Troy
12. Old Dominion
13. Miami-OH

Now, the "New MAC" has a divisional problem ... it has 9 teams from the "Old MAC" plus UMAss, GA St, Troy, and ODU. GA St, Troy and ODU, and given the lack of substantial media value and the high cost of travel to them, would be better off recruiting eastern tier schools from the "New Sunbelt" in more convenient travelling distance to join them. Let's see how many that would be:

New MAC 2.3:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Ball State
9. Kent State
10. Miami-OH

ASE Conference (Atlantic and Southeastern Conference):
1. Georgia State
2. Troy
3. Old Dominion
4. FL Atlantic
5. FL International
6. Charlotte
7. South Alabama
8. Coastal Carolina (You forgot that they will be in the mix)

Big American Conference:
1. Idaho
2. New Mexico State
3. Texas San Antonio
4. LA-Monroe
5. Texas State
6. North Texas
7. EMU
8. UTEP

Independents: BYU, Army

Now, since EMU is an incumbent in the "Old MAC", and the bulk of the "New MAC" consists of the "Old MAC", then the likelihood is that EMU is not actually in the "orphans" conference, leaving it one shy, unless it can convince Army that the BAC is its best hope of going bowling and that is worth having only three "free" OOC games after 7 conference games, Air Force and Navy.

So, how does this form? The largest kernel of the "New CUSA" conference is the current CUSA. SO it forms by Marshall, Western Kentucky, LA Tech, Southern Miss, MTSU and Rice having an airport meeting and deciding to try to recruit NIU, GA Southern, App State, Ohio, AR St, and ULouisiana to form a new conference (just set aside the question whether LA Tech will be eager to get into a conference with ULouisiana).

What would the divisions of that conference be? Whether you split North/South or East/West, in either case they are two big, sprawling divisions ... because strong football records tend to be spread across the country rather than clustered in nice tidy clusters ... because in the nice tidy clusters that tended on average to play each other, some teams tended to win so that means that some teams tended to lose.

But the CUSA-Six need to have compelling divisions to present to the other six schools they are recruiting for the new breakaway conference, or it will be a no-go (well, that or a big media deal, but that is not going to be on the table).

The more you dig into the idea, the more you see why there is no organic push in that direction.

(12-19-2015 11:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:48 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  It's really about football (secondarily basketball performance) + a collection of other things to give one an edge of another equalish team, most importantly, on their way up in athletic budget or expansion.

BEST CUSA/MAC/SBC CONFERENCE (not necessarily in order of best to worst; Limited to 12 to keep best-of):

NEW BEST G5 CONF:
1. BYU
2. NIU
3. Marshall
4. Toledo
5. W Kentucky
6. GA-Southern
7. App-State
8. LA-Tech
9. Ohio
10. Southern Miss
11. Bowling Green
12. Arkansas State

First, note that with Utah in the Pac12, no way BYU is going to join a "not even a best of the rest conference" below the level of the AAC. After all, it could have joined the Old Big East, when they were trawling for members and before they lost AQ status. So that train has left the station already.

And that conference is not a big enough step up from the "Old MAC" to justify the extra travel for Toledo or Bowling Green, who would move together or stay together. So we can move those two into the incumbent members of the "New MAC". (Just to play along, I'll not quibble about OhioU leaving MiamiU behind ... it will just have to play the Battle of the Bricks games OOC in this scenario):

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.1:
1. NIU
2. Marshall
3. W Kentucky
4. GA-Southern
5. App-State
6. LA-Tech
7. Ohio
8. Southern Miss
9. Arkansas State

New MAC v2.1:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Mid-Tenn State
6. LA-Lafayette
7. Rice
8. Buffalo
9. UMass
10. Akron
11. Georgia State
12. Ball State
13. Kent State
14. Troy
15. Old Dominion
16. Miami-OH

... nor is it worth it for CMU or WMU to move to the "New Second or 3rd Best G5 CONF" from the Old MAC, so filling nine to twelve drops down to the three spots below them:

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.2:
1. NIU (MAC)
2. Marshall (CUSA)
3. W Kentucky (CUSA)
4. GA-Southern (SBC)
5. App-State (SBC)
6. LA-Tech (CUSA)
7. Ohio (MAC)
8. Southern Miss (CUSA)
9. Arkansas State (SBC)
10. Mid-Tenn State (CUSA)
11. LA-Lafayette (SBC)
12. Rice (CUSA)

New MAC 2.2:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Georgia State
9. Ball State
10. Kent State
11. Troy
12. Old Dominion
13. Miami-OH

Now, the "New MAC" has a divisional problem ... it has 9 teams from the "Old MAC" plus UMAss, GA St, Troy, and ODU. GA St, Troy and ODU, and given the lack of substantial media value and the high cost of travel to them, would be better off recruiting eastern tier schools from the "New Sunbelt" in more convenient travelling distance to join them. Let's see how many that would be:

New MAC 2.3:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Ball State
9. Kent State
10. Miami-OH

ASE Conference (Atlantic and Southeastern Conference):
1. Georgia State
2. Troy
3. Old Dominion
4. FL Atlantic
5. FL International
6. Charlotte
7. South Alabama
8. Coastal Carolina (You forgot that they will be in the mix)

Big American Conference:
1. Idaho
2. New Mexico State
3. Texas San Antonio
4. LA-Monroe
5. Texas State
6. North Texas
7. EMU
8. UTEP

Independents: BYU, Army

Now, since EMU is an incumbent in the "Old MAC", and the bulk of the "New MAC" consists of the "Old MAC", then the likelihood is that EMU is not actually in the "orphans" conference, leaving it one shy, unless it can convince Army that the BAC is its best hope of going bowling and that is worth having only three "free" OOC games after 7 conference games, Air Force and Navy.

So, how does this form? The largest kernel of the "New CUSA" conference is the current CUSA. SO it forms by Marshall, Western Kentucky, LA Tech, Southern Miss, MTSU and Rice having an airport meeting and deciding to try to recruit NIU, GA Southern, App State, Ohio, AR St, and ULouisiana to form a new conference (just set aside the question whether LA Tech will be eager to get into a conference with ULouisiana).

What would the divisions of that conference be? Whether you split North/South or East/West, in either case they are two big, sprawling divisions ... because strong football records tend to be spread across the country rather than clustered in nice tidy clusters ... because in the nice tidy clusters that tended on average to play each other, some teams tended to win so that means that some teams tended to lose.

But the CUSA-Six need to have compelling divisions to present to the other six schools they are recruiting for the new breakaway conference, or it will be a no-go (well, that or a big media deal, but that is not going to be on the table).

These are the teams that I could see find a spot somewhere.

James Madison and Delaware could join the conference with Old Dominion.

Liberty could find a way somewhere.

Stony Brook could get in where Buffalo is at.

Jacksonville State

Youngstown State

Eastern Washington

North Dakota State

South Dakota

South Dakota State

Northern Iowa

Missouri State

Wichita State

Long Beach State

Milwaukee could be a pick up like Charlotte if they start up football.

West Texas A&M already has a 20,000 seat stadium that they could expand.

Lamar

(12-20-2015 03:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 11:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:48 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  It's really about football (secondarily basketball performance) + a collection of other things to give one an edge of another equalish team, most importantly, on their way up in athletic budget or expansion.

BEST CUSA/MAC/SBC CONFERENCE (not necessarily in order of best to worst; Limited to 12 to keep best-of):

NEW BEST G5 CONF:
1. BYU
2. NIU
3. Marshall
4. Toledo
5. W Kentucky
6. GA-Southern
7. App-State
8. LA-Tech
9. Ohio
10. Southern Miss
11. Bowling Green
12. Arkansas State

First, note that with Utah in the Pac12, no way BYU is going to join a "not even a best of the rest conference" below the level of the AAC. After all, it could have joined the Old Big East, when they were trawling for members and before they lost AQ status. So that train has left the station already.

And that conference is not a big enough step up from the "Old MAC" to justify the extra travel for Toledo or Bowling Green, who would move together or stay together. So we can move those two into the incumbent members of the "New MAC". (Just to play along, I'll not quibble about OhioU leaving MiamiU behind ... it will just have to play the Battle of the Bricks games OOC in this scenario):

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.1:
1. NIU
2. Marshall
3. W Kentucky
4. GA-Southern
5. App-State
6. LA-Tech
7. Ohio
8. Southern Miss
9. Arkansas State

New MAC v2.1:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Mid-Tenn State
6. LA-Lafayette
7. Rice
8. Buffalo
9. UMass
10. Akron
11. Georgia State
12. Ball State
13. Kent State
14. Troy
15. Old Dominion
16. Miami-OH

... nor is it worth it for CMU or WMU to move to the "New Second or 3rd Best G5 CONF" from the Old MAC, so filling nine to twelve drops down to the three spots below them:

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.2:
1. NIU (MAC)
2. Marshall (CUSA)
3. W Kentucky (CUSA)
4. GA-Southern (SBC)
5. App-State (SBC)
6. LA-Tech (CUSA)
7. Ohio (MAC)
8. Southern Miss (CUSA)
9. Arkansas State (SBC)
10. Mid-Tenn State (CUSA)
11. LA-Lafayette (SBC)
12. Rice (CUSA)

New MAC 2.2:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Georgia State
9. Ball State
10. Kent State
11. Troy
12. Old Dominion
13. Miami-OH

Now, the "New MAC" has a divisional problem ... it has 9 teams from the "Old MAC" plus UMAss, GA St, Troy, and ODU. GA St, Troy and ODU, and given the lack of substantial media value and the high cost of travel to them, would be better off recruiting eastern tier schools from the "New Sunbelt" in more convenient travelling distance to join them. Let's see how many that would be:

New MAC 2.3:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Ball State
9. Kent State
10. Miami-OH

ASE Conference (Atlantic and Southeastern Conference):
1. Georgia State
2. Troy
3. Old Dominion
4. FL Atlantic
5. FL International
6. Charlotte
7. South Alabama
8. Coastal Carolina (You forgot that they will be in the mix)

Big American Conference:
1. Idaho
2. New Mexico State
3. Texas San Antonio
4. LA-Monroe
5. Texas State
6. North Texas
7. EMU
8. UTEP

Independents: BYU, Army

Now, since EMU is an incumbent in the "Old MAC", and the bulk of the "New MAC" consists of the "Old MAC", then the likelihood is that EMU is not actually in the "orphans" conference, leaving it one shy, unless it can convince Army that the BAC is its best hope of going bowling and that is worth having only three "free" OOC games after 7 conference games, Air Force and Navy.

So, how does this form? The largest kernel of the "New CUSA" conference is the current CUSA. SO it forms by Marshall, Western Kentucky, LA Tech, Southern Miss, MTSU and Rice having an airport meeting and deciding to try to recruit NIU, GA Southern, App State, Ohio, AR St, and ULouisiana to form a new conference (just set aside the question whether LA Tech will be eager to get into a conference with ULouisiana).

What would the divisions of that conference be? Whether you split North/South or East/West, in either case they are two big, sprawling divisions ... because strong football records tend to be spread across the country rather than clustered in nice tidy clusters ... because in the nice tidy clusters that tended on average to play each other, some teams tended to win so that means that some teams tended to lose.

But the CUSA-Six need to have compelling divisions to present to the other six schools they are recruiting for the new breakaway conference, or it will be a no-go (well, that or a big media deal, but that is not going to be on the table).

These are the teams that I could see find a spot somewhere.

James Madison and Delaware could join the conference with Old Dominion.

Liberty could find a way somewhere.

Stony Brook could get in where Buffalo is at.

Jacksonville State

Youngstown State

Eastern Washington

North Dakota State

South Dakota

South Dakota State

Northern Iowa

Missouri State

Wichita State

Long Beach State

Milwaukee could be a pick up like Charlotte if they start up football.

West Texas A&M already has a 20,000 seat stadium that they could expand.

Lamar

While you're at it, why not call the entire FCS up or force the G5 down to FCS? The FBS is fine just as it is. The more programs that get the call up that aren't ready (i.e. Charlotte, FIU, FAU), the more likely P5 will want to push us off. Why do that to ourselves? After Coastal Carolina moves up, I don't foresee many other teams making the jump up. There isn't a lot of room left. Why continue to pull more in when so many that are already in are struggling to survive? I'm talking about EMU, Idaho, NMSU, FIU, FAU, Charlotte, Georgia State at times, and many others.

If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems. If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 03:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 11:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:48 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  It's really about football (secondarily basketball performance) + a collection of other things to give one an edge of another equalish team, most importantly, on their way up in athletic budget or expansion.

BEST CUSA/MAC/SBC CONFERENCE (not necessarily in order of best to worst; Limited to 12 to keep best-of):

NEW BEST G5 CONF:
1. BYU
2. NIU
3. Marshall
4. Toledo
5. W Kentucky
6. GA-Southern
7. App-State
8. LA-Tech
9. Ohio
10. Southern Miss
11. Bowling Green
12. Arkansas State

First, note that with Utah in the Pac12, no way BYU is going to join a "not even a best of the rest conference" below the level of the AAC. After all, it could have joined the Old Big East, when they were trawling for members and before they lost AQ status. So that train has left the station already.

And that conference is not a big enough step up from the "Old MAC" to justify the extra travel for Toledo or Bowling Green, who would move together or stay together. So we can move those two into the incumbent members of the "New MAC". (Just to play along, I'll not quibble about OhioU leaving MiamiU behind ... it will just have to play the Battle of the Bricks games OOC in this scenario):

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.1:
1. NIU
2. Marshall
3. W Kentucky
4. GA-Southern
5. App-State
6. LA-Tech
7. Ohio
8. Southern Miss
9. Arkansas State

New MAC v2.1:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Mid-Tenn State
6. LA-Lafayette
7. Rice
8. Buffalo
9. UMass
10. Akron
11. Georgia State
12. Ball State
13. Kent State
14. Troy
15. Old Dominion
16. Miami-OH

... nor is it worth it for CMU or WMU to move to the "New Second or 3rd Best G5 CONF" from the Old MAC, so filling nine to twelve drops down to the three spots below them:

NEW BEST G5 CONF v2.2:
1. NIU (MAC)
2. Marshall (CUSA)
3. W Kentucky (CUSA)
4. GA-Southern (SBC)
5. App-State (SBC)
6. LA-Tech (CUSA)
7. Ohio (MAC)
8. Southern Miss (CUSA)
9. Arkansas State (SBC)
10. Mid-Tenn State (CUSA)
11. LA-Lafayette (SBC)
12. Rice (CUSA)

New MAC 2.2:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Georgia State
9. Ball State
10. Kent State
11. Troy
12. Old Dominion
13. Miami-OH

Now, the "New MAC" has a divisional problem ... it has 9 teams from the "Old MAC" plus UMAss, GA St, Troy, and ODU. GA St, Troy and ODU, and given the lack of substantial media value and the high cost of travel to them, would be better off recruiting eastern tier schools from the "New Sunbelt" in more convenient travelling distance to join them. Let's see how many that would be:

New MAC 2.3:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. WMU
4. CMU
5. Buffalo
6. UMass
7. Akron
8. Ball State
9. Kent State
10. Miami-OH

ASE Conference (Atlantic and Southeastern Conference):
1. Georgia State
2. Troy
3. Old Dominion
4. FL Atlantic
5. FL International
6. Charlotte
7. South Alabama
8. Coastal Carolina (You forgot that they will be in the mix)

Big American Conference:
1. Idaho
2. New Mexico State
3. Texas San Antonio
4. LA-Monroe
5. Texas State
6. North Texas
7. EMU
8. UTEP

Independents: BYU, Army

Now, since EMU is an incumbent in the "Old MAC", and the bulk of the "New MAC" consists of the "Old MAC", then the likelihood is that EMU is not actually in the "orphans" conference, leaving it one shy, unless it can convince Army that the BAC is its best hope of going bowling and that is worth having only three "free" OOC games after 7 conference games, Air Force and Navy.

So, how does this form? The largest kernel of the "New CUSA" conference is the current CUSA. SO it forms by Marshall, Western Kentucky, LA Tech, Southern Miss, MTSU and Rice having an airport meeting and deciding to try to recruit NIU, GA Southern, App State, Ohio, AR St, and ULouisiana to form a new conference (just set aside the question whether LA Tech will be eager to get into a conference with ULouisiana).

What would the divisions of that conference be? Whether you split North/South or East/West, in either case they are two big, sprawling divisions ... because strong football records tend to be spread across the country rather than clustered in nice tidy clusters ... because in the nice tidy clusters that tended on average to play each other, some teams tended to win so that means that some teams tended to lose.

But the CUSA-Six need to have compelling divisions to present to the other six schools they are recruiting for the new breakaway conference, or it will be a no-go (well, that or a big media deal, but that is not going to be on the table).

These are the teams that I could see find a spot somewhere.

James Madison and Delaware could join the conference with Old Dominion.

Liberty could find a way somewhere.

Stony Brook could get in where Buffalo is at.

Jacksonville State

Youngstown State

Eastern Washington

North Dakota State

South Dakota

South Dakota State

Northern Iowa

Missouri State

Wichita State

Long Beach State

Milwaukee could be a pick up like Charlotte if they start up football.

West Texas A&M already has a 20,000 seat stadium that they could expand.

Lamar

While you're at it, why not call the entire FCS up or force the G5 down to FCS? The FBS is fine just as it is. The more programs that get the call up that aren't ready (i.e. Charlotte, FIU, FAU), the more likely P5 will want to push us off. Why do that to ourselves? After Coastal Carolina moves up, I don't foresee many other teams making the jump up. There isn't a lot of room left. Why continue to pull more in when so many that are already in are struggling to survive? I'm talking about EMU, Idaho, NMSU, FIU, FAU, Charlotte, Georgia State at times, and many others.

If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems. If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

Most of these teams that I mentioned have the fan support better than some of the schools that you mentioned. Some of them get more than 20,000, some in between 15,000 and 20,000. Some are expanding their stadiums because they are over flowing like Eastern Washington. Some of these schools could be the next Boise State like North Dakota State, Jacksonville State, James Madison and Eastern Washington.

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems.

Except those are allowed under the current regulations ... which means, of course, as passed by a vote of membership ... so that would not be enforcing their regulations, that would be changing their regulations on attendance.

Except rules on attendance requiring a strict 15,000 or out would bite some long time members of P5 conferences, so those P5 conferences affected would vote against the rule change, and with Go5 conferences affected, would vote down the rule change ... likely by about the same margin as the existing rule passed by.

Quote: If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

But not enough Presidents of NCAA members agree with you to put that rule into effect.

(12-21-2015 06:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems.

Except those are allowed under the current regulations ... which means, of course, as passed by a vote of membership ... so that would not be enforcing their regulations, that would be changing their regulations on attendance.

Except rules on attendance requiring a strict 15,000 or out would bite some long time members of P5 conferences, so those P5 conferences affected would vote against the rule change, and with Go5 conferences affected, would vote down the rule change ... likely by about the same margin as the existing rule passed by.

Quote: If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

But not enough Presidents of NCAA members agree with you to put that rule into effect.

Did you mean G5, because I can't think of one P5 program that would have to worry about the 15k rule?

(12-21-2015 08:34 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 06:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems.

Except those are allowed under the current regulations ... which means, of course, as passed by a vote of membership ... so that would not be enforcing their regulations, that would be changing their regulations on attendance.

Except rules on attendance requiring a strict 15,000 or out would bite some long time members of P5 conferences, so those P5 conferences affected would vote against the rule change, and with Go5 conferences affected, would vote down the rule change ... likely by about the same margin as the existing rule passed by.

Quote: If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

But not enough Presidents of NCAA members agree with you to put that rule into effect.

Did you mean G5, because I can't think of one P5 program that would have to worry about the 15k rule?

I would be completely okay with losing a few G5 programs and bumping up quality FCS programs. If we enforced the 15,000 rule, the following schools would be dropped from the FBS: Akron, Ball State, Eastern Michigan, Florida International, Florida Atlantic, Georgia State, Idaho, Kent State, New Mexico State, Northern Illinois, San Jose State, UNLV, and Western Michigan. Schools that could be bumped up to the FBS would be: Delaware, Jacksonville State, James Madison, Liberty, Montana, Montana State, and North Dakota State. Those are the only 7 schools that have an average attendance of 15,000 fans or more.

(12-21-2015 08:34 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 06:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems.

Except those are allowed under the current regulations ... which means, of course, as passed by a vote of membership ... so that would not be enforcing their regulations, that would be changing their regulations on attendance.

Except rules on attendance requiring a strict 15,000 or out would bite some long time members of P5 conferences, so those P5 conferences affected would vote against the rule change, and with Go5 conferences affected, would vote down the rule change ... likely by about the same margin as the existing rule passed by.

Quote: If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

But not enough Presidents of NCAA members agree with you to put that rule into effect.

Did you mean G5, because I can't think of one P5 program that would have to worry about the 15k rule?

Big Ten schools wouldn't be affected, but a number of their opponents would be. The B1G played 12 games against the MAC this year, and with the new league policy against scheduling FCS teams, enforcing these rules would definitely impact them.

(12-21-2015 09:41 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 08:34 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 06:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:25 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  If anything, the NCAA needs to start enforcing their regulations on attendance. There should be no more of these corporate tickets to buy teams out of their problems.

Except those are allowed under the current regulations ... which means, of course, as passed by a vote of membership ... so that would not be enforcing their regulations, that would be changing their regulations on attendance.

Except rules on attendance requiring a strict 15,000 or out would bite some long time members of P5 conferences, so those P5 conferences affected would vote against the rule change, and with Go5 conferences affected, would vote down the rule change ... likely by about the same margin as the existing rule passed by.

Quote: If you can't sustain 15,000 fans in the FBS, then you shouldn't be in the FBS.

But not enough Presidents of NCAA members agree with you to put that rule into effect.

Did you mean G5, because I can't think of one P5 program that would have to worry about the 15k rule?

I would be completely okay with losing a few G5 programs and bumping up quality FCS programs. If we enforced the 15,000 rule, the following schools would be dropped from the FBS: Akron, Ball State, Eastern Michigan, Florida International, Florida Atlantic, Georgia State, Idaho, Kent State, New Mexico State, Northern Illinois, San Jose State, UNLV, and Western Michigan. Schools that could be bumped up to the FBS would be: Delaware, Jacksonville State, James Madison, Liberty, Montana, Montana State, and North Dakota State. Those are the only 7 schools that have an average attendance of 15,000 fans or more.

NIU and Western Michigna dropping to FCS? Hahahahahaha! The same Northern Illinois that was in the Orange Bowl and WMU that hosted Michigan State this past season.


Yeah.... Keep dreaming.

This is just supposed to be how we could make a more competitive league out of 3 conferences whose bottom halves lack much luster. By the way drop the football win percentage from your reasoning. That will tilt the scales heavily to the better belt schools because they play dog meat for a schedule in conference every year. Dont worry about what team will agree with what, because this will never happen anyway. Just take the top schools from each conference and the schools you feel like fill out a good conference and put it down. I would go one of two ways. Either a super conference or a conference just based on tradition.

Option 1

SWD: UTEP, RICE, LA TECH, ULL, USM
ND: NIU, OHIO, TOLEDO, BOWLING GREEN, BUFFALO
SED: UAB, GA SOUTHERN, MTU, ARK STATE, FIU
CD: Appy State, Marshall, ODU, WKU, JMU

Option 2 (Traditional)

WEST: UTEP, RICE, LATECH, ASU, USM, LAFAYETTE
EAST: MARSHALL, APPY STATE, NIU, OHIO, TOLEDO, BOWLING GREEN

BBALL ONLY OFFERS - WICHITA ST, UMASS

(12-21-2015 01:01 PM)Dawg87 Wrote:  This is just supposed to be how we could make a more competitive league out of 3 conferences whose bottom halves lack much luster. By the way drop the football win percentage from your reasoning. That will tilt the scales heavily to the better belt schools because they play dog meat for a schedule in conference every year. Dont worry about what team will agree with what, because this will never happen anyway. Just take the top schools from each conference and the schools you feel like fill out a good conference and put it down. I would go one of two ways. Either a super conference or a conference just based on tradition.

Option 1

SWD: UTEP, RICE, LA TECH, ULL, USM
ND: NIU, OHIO, TOLEDO, BOWLING GREEN, BUFFALO
SED: UAB, GA SOUTHERN, MTU, ARK STATE, FIU
CD: Appy State, Marshall, ODU, WKU, JMU

Option 2 (Traditional)

WEST: UTEP, RICE, LATECH, ASU, USM, LAFAYETTE
EAST: MARSHALL, APPY STATE, NIU, OHIO, TOLEDO, BOWLING GREEN

BBALL ONLY OFFERS - WICHITA ST, UMASS

I could add McNeese State in SWD.
North Dakota State in the ND.
Jacksonville State is the SED.
Delaware in the CD. Delaware will leave for FBS when James Madison does. Towson could be another great add as well.

(12-21-2015 08:34 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Did you mean G5, because I can't think of one P5 program that would have to worry about the 15k rule?

If you change the rule so that ticket sales don't count, only people attending the games with a paid ticket, there are a number of schools that post comfortable attendance averages 30K-35K range that could be at risk during a bad season. Wake Forest and Duke at 27K, Wazzu at 31K, Kansas at 34K, Vandy at 34K, BC at 34K, Purdue at at 35K, they would all be in some degree of jeopardy of losing their spot due to a couple of years of very bad seasons, if the count was actual people using paid tickets. I believe that at the time that the vote was taken, it was Wazzu that was in trouble with the previously stricter attendance rule, and when it was a power conference school being threatened by the rule, all of a sudden the rule changed, paid tickets alone could be counted, and on their season ticket sales to ensure a good seat for the Washington / Wazzu game or USC or UCLA coming to town, they were then safe.