(12-18-2015 12:40 PM)milerock Wrote:  Clemson after Danny was fired was a program in disarray. Our BOT and athletic dept stayed at odds. As a result our football from 91 til 05 or so was pretty mediocre with a pocket or two of excellence. FSU was riding high. We lost 11 straight to the Noles. We finally started spending some $$$$ on facilities and the recruiting with the addition of CJ Spiller and others began to turn around. Tommy Bowden moved the pile forward but could never cross the goalline. Little did we know when we hired a WR coach named Dabo that the last piece in CU football being back was beginning. And now in the words of that song.."How do you like us now?" The future looks bright as long as our folks stay on the same page.

Do you remember how many people bashed Bowden for hiring a coach who was selling real estate?

(12-18-2015 12:40 PM)milerock Wrote:  Clemson after Danny was fired was a program in disarray. Our BOT and athletic dept stayed at odds. As a result our football from 91 til 05 or so was pretty mediocre with a pocket or two of excellence. FSU was riding high. We lost 11 straight to the Noles. We finally started spending some $$$$ on facilities and the recruiting with the addition of CJ Spiller and others began to turn around. Tommy Bowden moved the pile forward but could never cross the goalline. Little did we know when we hired a WR coach named Dabo that the last piece in CU football being back was beginning. And now in the words of that song.."How do you like us now?" The future looks bright as long as our folks stay on the same page.

The ACC was a tougher conference during the Bowden years though. I don't think Dabo would have done much better as head coach during those years. Maryland had it going for 3 or 4 years, UVA had good years with Matt Schuab, NC State had Philip Riv ers years, Wake hd some real good years, Virginia tech was rolling, BC had Matt Ryan, etc.

Bowden was 72-45...Dabo is 74-26......we had some really ugly losses in the TB era. We are not losing that type of game now. I think Dabo would have had at least 5 more wins in the TB era. Obviously an opinion but I think an educated one.

Since FSU joined the league, the ACC had never had another team even sniff playing for a championship. The fact the ACC has a 2nd team in 3 years playing for a chance at a title speaks volumes on how much better it is now.

lol i'll take numerous top 25 teams vs 2 programs playing for chmampionships and no other ranked teams.

the 00s the ACC was clearly better than now, more talent at QB position.

i'd rather ACC had no championship contending teams than hear about FSU and how great they are in comparison to conference. I don't get conference cheerleading in general. I def. wasn't in hog heaven when a team playing human debris like Winston at QB won the title simply b/c it was an ACC school.

I don't believe Clemson and many other schools would have kept Winston on the team. shoplifting, rape allegations, shooting ppl with bb guns, probably some weed charges, getting up on table and staying crude things, etc. Why would u want that guy to be face of your university unless winning is all you care about.

if you look at SEC, only program that has been a consistent contender for titles is Alabama in the past 8 years.

Winston is dumb as a rock so I got to believe that FSU has a UNC setup for athletes. lol

FSU leaving ACC would be great for the conference I think. It has a geographical advantage in recruiting that schools north of it can't compete with. They should be moved to SEC. We will take SC or one of the MS schools.

the winner of the ACC even without FSU has a decent shot of making the playoffs every year.

i think much of the reason good players in ACC states decide to go to FSU rather than Florida and other SEC programs is they will get to play against their home state ACC schools if they go to FSU.

If FSU moves to SEC or big 12, many of the ACC state players will go to another ACC school.

The best way to get rid of the 1 team stigma the ACC has is to just get rid of FSU.

Well let's see...2013 FSU won the national title and Clemson finished ranked in the top 10. Duke also finished ranked.

2014, FSU lost in the playoffs but still ended in the top 10 along with GT. Clemson and Louisville also finished ranked.

2015, the ACC currently has a team in the playoffs and 2 others in the top 10. Can you tell me the last time the ACC had THREE top 10 teams this late in the year?

You can have championship level teams and others ranked. They're not mutually exclusive. The former ACC didn't have anyone competing for championships...big difference.

(12-18-2015 03:53 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Since FSU joined the league, the ACC had never had another team even sniff playing for a championship. The fact the ACC has a 2nd team in 3 years playing for a chance at a title speaks volumes on how much better it is now.

Virginia Tech cries at your statement...

you need to go back and watch the ACC teams in the 00's and tell me that Duke team was in the same league. lol

I actually watch games. it is the eye test.

(12-18-2015 04:27 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  you need to go back and watch the ACC teams in the 00's and tell me that Duke team was in the same league. lol

I actually watch games. it is the eye test.

You're proving my point. Duke is much better now than they were then.

(12-18-2015 04:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 03:53 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Since FSU joined the league, the ACC had never had another team even sniff playing for a championship. The fact the ACC has a 2nd team in 3 years playing for a chance at a title speaks volumes on how much better it is now.

Virginia Tech cries at your statement...

They carried the banner for years while FSU and Clemson got their act together....not even a sniff at a national title.

Duke is better now, but those ACC teams in 00 were in general better than Duke. Matt Ryan at BC, Matt Schuab at UVA, etc.

(12-18-2015 04:30 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 04:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 03:53 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Since FSU joined the league, the ACC had never had another team even sniff playing for a championship. The fact the ACC has a 2nd team in 3 years playing for a chance at a title speaks volumes on how much better it is now.

Virginia Tech cries at your statement...

They carried the banner for years while FSU and Clemson got their act together....not even a sniff at a national title.

they were in several BCS bowls even at least 1 year with Logan Thomas who wasn't that good. that's sniffing.

(12-18-2015 04:30 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  Duke is better now, but those ACC teams in 00 were in general better than Duke. Matt Ryan at BC, Matt Schuab at UVA, etc.

Clem you're doing it all wrong as always. You compare team vs themselves. Is Duke better now? Is UNC better now? Is FSU better now? etc etc. Almost all teams except Wake, BC, VT, and Syracuse are better.

UNC had one good season. Duke only had 2 good season, they weren't good this year. 3 years ago Clemson gave Duke a beatdown and we heard about how much better they were that year too. That wa probably the biggest defeat of Duke by Clemson in our history.

UNC had a good season or two in the early 00's with a QB out of Florence SC. I forget his name, he had a hell of a game at Clemson one year.

UNC also had some good seasons in middle 90's with Mack Brown as coach and Julius Peppers on defense. they were much better then , then this past season.

I don't think UNC will be that good this year. At best 8-4, likely 6-6. they aren't type of program that can go 11-2 with a new starting QB. Few programs can.

(12-18-2015 04:31 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 04:30 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 04:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 03:53 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Since FSU joined the league, the ACC had never had another team even sniff playing for a championship. The fact the ACC has a 2nd team in 3 years playing for a chance at a title speaks volumes on how much better it is now.

Virginia Tech cries at your statement...

They carried the banner for years while FSU and Clemson got their act together....not even a sniff at a national title.

they were in several BCS bowls even at least 1 year with Logan Thomas who wasn't that good. that's sniffing.

That's not sniffing. Conference champs made it to BCS bowls. Somebody had to win the ACC. Then go see how many of those VT won.

(12-18-2015 04:35 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  UNC had one good season. Duke only had 2 good season, they weren't good this year. 3 years ago Clemson gave Duke a beatdown and we heard about how much better they were that year too. That wa probably the biggest defeat of Duke by Clemson in our history.

you do realize Duke went about 20 consecutive years without making it to a bowl right? You do realize this is their 4th consecutive year in a bowl---school record.

you do realize UNC hadn't won more than 9 games in a year since 1997?

The more you talk the more I am convinced you don't really understand what's happening.

OK, Va Tech was a legit top 15 program for several years, Beamer had them in a bowl like 25 years in a row. we can split hairs about competing for titles but i think MOST programs would take what Beamer had going there. No need to be greedy. lol Only 1 team out of like 300 wins the title every year.

(12-18-2015 04:38 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 04:35 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  UNC had one good season. Duke only had 2 good season, they weren't good this year. 3 years ago Clemson gave Duke a beatdown and we heard about how much better they were that year too. That wa probably the biggest defeat of Duke by Clemson in our history.

you do realize Duke went about 20 consecutive years without making it to a bowl right? You do realize this is their 4th consecutive year in a bowl---school record.

you do realize UNC hadn't won more than 9 games in a year since 1997?

The more you talk the more I am convinced you don't really understand what's happening.

Duke has only gone to a good bowl game that I can remember, the peach bowl with Texas AM, and they played well in that one, and should have won it. Duke has improved but I'm talking about a a lot of programs being good at once in the 00s. Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Schuab, Va tech, Maryland, Wake, FSU dropping off but not being a cupcake, Clemson with Dantzler and Whitehurst, etc. The QB position was much better in 00's across the conference.

i believe UNC had a losing record last year. One good season does not mean it is a trend. Look at G Tech, everybody thought they were going to be awesome this year and they sucked. I was only person to predict they would be bad.

VT was a top 15 team, but they were beating up on other ACC teams. They weren't winning significant OOC games. That is what hurts perception. The ACC is now starting to win those games and earn respect.