(12-09-2015 02:38 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Only other poster besides you, Shady has given the ST a grade on this thread that has been higher than mine. Most people haven't given the ST a separate grade or disputed anything..

Obviously you have a problem counting (like claiming there were only 4-5 really bad ST plays this season.. Looks like your robot button needs to be reprogrammed..

(12-07-2015 08:51 AM)JMU Wrote:  Subgrades:

Defense F
Offense - B+
Special Teams - B
Vad Lee - A+
GameDay A+
Playoffs - F
Withers - C

Overall, I'll round to a C.

(12-06-2015 11:09 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Those of you who are way down on our special teams must have forgotten about us having a 64 yd. and a 50 yd. KO return yesterday and we had some of these almost every game. You are giving no credit to that part of our special teams. I believe we had just as many very good special team events as bad ones. Which allows me to give that portion a C. In addition, our punter was stellar.

Plus shady and me equals 4. AGAIN 4 > 2

If we hadn't been to the playoffs in 10 years this season would be an A. When you expect to go, dominate the first 7 games and then are mediocre down the stretch with a water sieve of a defense and go one and done in the first round for the second straight year the grade is a C at best. Don't need to grade every aspect of the team. As a whole, only a C.

Just to let you all know, our special teams ranked #1 in the conference this year.

(12-09-2015 03:35 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Just to let you all know, our special teams ranked #1 in the conference this year.

Yeah but haven't you heard, BDK said the JMU STs sucked so I guess the CAA did not run their stats past him and that is the gospel......so they must suck.

(12-09-2015 03:35 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Just to let you all know, our special teams ranked #1 in the conference this year.

Who cares? They cost us the playoff game. That's all that matters.

(12-09-2015 04:33 PM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 03:35 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Just to let you all know, our special teams ranked #1 in the conference this year.

Who cares? They cost us the playoff game. That's all that matters.

But we were winning and on a 28-7 run after the kickoff fumble. But we were tied with 12 minutes left after the fumbled punt and Colgate's next offensive possession. But our defense gave up 6 TDs and 62, 79 and 93 yard scoring drives. But the offense stalled after a 4 TD first half when they scored a TD on 80% of their drives and only had 1 TD the second half, or 15% of their drives. But the offense couldn't score in 4 plays from the 6 yard line when it actually mattered. Are we sure those two plays cost us the game and that was it?

...and the W&M game and you could argue the RU game.

We were 9-3 and that's a great record, but we didn't beat a single team that made the playoffs. Like BSKB said, we have lost in the first round two years in a row. Last year, we were beaten by a better Liberty team. This year were beaten by a team that we should beat at least 70% of the time.

Holding all my other comments and grade till later on but

WE THREW THE BALL ON 4th and 3 !!!!!
Com'on Man!
Visions of the NFL "Seattle" game

(12-09-2015 04:33 PM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 03:35 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Just to let you all know, our special teams ranked #1 in the conference this year.

Who cares? They cost us the playoff game. That's all that matters.

So how does firing a coach make those guys not drop the ball?

(12-09-2015 02:26 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Seriously we go 9-3 and it is like the sky is falling, geez. Makes some of us sound like whiney bi**hes.

Shady when I hear 9-3 or 18-7 my response is 0-2. Like I said before, I give = weight to the playoffs as I do the regular season. Playoffs are the ultimate judge of a team's success. If you're regular season is a A, I don't care if its 11-0, and you're playoffs is an F, well when you have an A and an F, that = a C (again gave JMU a B- because of Gameday).

Given the circumstances of the Colgate game:
-63 schollies to at most 45
-Massive facilities advantage
-Colgate HC probably doesn't make half of what Withers does
-Colgate 2nd straight on road, JMU at home, coming off a bye favored by 20
This was probably the worst playoff loss in JMU history
Certainly gives the postseason a big fat "F".

Back to back postseason one and done when favored at home. Back to back postseason "F"s..

Since the 2011 playoffs 1st round, when JMU last won a playoff game, 34 teams have won a playoff game. 17 have won multiple games. These are the the teams that have won since the 2011 round of 16, and the # of playoff games they have won, through last weekend's games:
-NDSU 17
-SHSU 12
-ILSU 5
-UNH 5
-EWU 5
-GSU 4
-UNI 4
-Montana 4
-Coastal 4
-SDSU 3
-JSU 3
-TU 3
-Montana St 2
-Fordham 2
-RU 2
-UTC 2
-Colgate 2
-Lehigh 1
-Maine 1
-SBU 1
-Wofford 1
-ODU 1
-Furman 1
-TSU 1
-SELA 1
-EIU 1
-Indiana St 1
-Liberty 1
-VU 1
-Citadel 1
-CSU 1
-W&M 1
-WIU 1
-Wagner 1
JMU: ZERO

Now I might have miscounted 1 or 2, but you get my point. So I'll quit bitching and complaining when JMU no longer underachieves vis a vi their facilities, HC's salary, and talent and wins a damn playoff game. And that won't be for at least 11 1/2 months..

You guys are out of control. Most are saying the same thing, we need to get better and mostly that falls with our "D". Someone pointed out that we were something like 80th or worse in the entire FCS. Most likely that puts us in the category where our defensive peers are schools like Savannah State, Delaware State, Florida A&M, Howard, Wagner, and Mississippi Valley State. How does that sound? Are you proud of the company we are with? I'm not hate'n on those schools its just that they don't even play for a bid in the FCS playoffs and each had season ending results like 1 - 10. We have an athletic budget roughly 8X what these teams have. Now how you feeling?

When we only compete with about 80 teams for a spot in the playoffs and 24 are playing post season games, there is little honor in just making it in. Especially when we spend the money we do for this one sport. It used to be very honorable to be in the field. I'm not advocating the NCAA make changes, only that we just cannot be accepting of such a small accomplishment when every single one of us predicted our making it to the playoff prior to the season beginning.

(12-09-2015 09:28 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  You guys are out of control. Most are saying the same thing, we need to get better and mostly that falls with our "D". Someone pointed out that we were something like 80th or worse in the entire FCS. Most likely that puts us in the category where our defensive peers are schools like Savannah State, Delaware State, Florida A&M, Howard, Wagner, and Mississippi Valley State. How does that sound? Are you proud of the company we are with? I'm not hate'n on those schools its just that they don't even play for a bid in the FCS playoffs and each had season ending results like 1 - 10. We have an athletic budget roughly 8X what these teams have. Now how you feeling?

When we only compete with about 80 teams for a spot in the playoffs and 24 are playing post season games, there is little honor in just making it in. Especially when we spend the money we do for this one sport. It used to be very honorable to be in the field. I'm not advocating the NCAA make changes, only that we just cannot be accepting of such a small accomplishment when every single one of us predicted our making it to the playoff prior to the season beginning.

Couldn't agree more

(12-09-2015 07:37 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 12:42 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 12:18 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 11:30 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 08:25 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  I have to agree with BP. Other than the KO team, I don't remember seeing many flaws in our special teams unit (KR, PR, Punt). Gunner averaged 43 yards a punt, 28 of 40 were inside the 20. Maglio went 12-14 (90%) on FG. We gave up 1 FG block and 1 Punt block (despite how it appeared versus W&M who was incredible this year on ST). Despite what I initially thought, only 1 KO went OB all year. You cannot weigh two dropped kicks yesterday more than any other of the hundred KR/PR throughout the season. I'm not going to look into the stats but I feel like our KR and PR teams were very solid. No it was Scotty back there but it was much better than a D/D+ performance.

JMU in CAA was:
#1 CAA net punting and #4 in punt return.
#8 in CAA in kick coverage, #1 in kick return (the one real bright spot)
#4 in FG percentage (12 of 16)
#6 in PAT percentage

But at times, esp in 5 games, mind boggling ineptitude that played a major part in all 3 JMU losses, and nearly cost JMU a 4th.
-vs SMU allowing the onside kick to be recovered. Almost cost JMU the game.
-vs TU fumbled kickoff led to TU TD.
-vs TU not recognizing that TU's QB was back to punt, not their punter, and allowing him on 4th and 10 to rumble 15 yds on a fake for a for a 1st down. Led to TU TD.
-vs TU allowing blocked punt, led to TU TD.
-vs RU not being ready for an OBVIOUS onside kick situation from the 50, allowing them to recover. Might have cost JMU the game.
-vs W&M allowing a mind boggling 3 straight PATs to be blocked, 1 of which was returned for 2 points (and that doesn't include the other 1 returned for 2 that was called back to to a gift block in the back penalty) COST JMU the game. Both teams scored 6 TDs, but W&M 44, JMU 41.
-vs Colgate fumbled kickoff, led to Colgate TD.
-vs Colgate fumbled punt led to Colgate TD.

And I'm sure there's other stuff I'm forgetting. There were multiple games this year that people on here wanted the ST Coach canned. So if its not a D, its not much better than a C-

Thank you BDK for backing up my score of the Special Teams. I remember all of these HUGE mistakes that resulted in losses in three of them. We would've lost to Towson too due to these mistakes if it wasn't for Vad bailing us out big time in that game. I don't think Schor could've overcame that Towson game.

I acknowledge the kicking returning was good, the FGs were okay (i'm not impressed with only missing 2 out of 14) and punting was overall great. However, the screw ups were so bad that it more than overshadowed the great kicking/punting game.

In mentioning all the Special Teams ineptitude during the SMU/TU/RU/W&M/Colgate games, I totally forgot about UD. 1st qtr Maglio make a FG, and its nullified for an illegal formation. An illegal formation...On a FG. WTF?..Never even seen that before.. And so its moved back 5 yards for a re kick, which is blocked. You'd think the next game after 3 PATS were blocked vs W&M they'd have that issue fixed. Can't line up right, can't get the blocking right..Totally on the coaching..

If you have never seen an illegal formation on a FG try then I question how much football you watch. It is no different than an illegal formation on any play. Most often it is someone near the end of the line who is no close enough to the line of scrimmage. Should it happen no, does it happen yes. Just as it should never happen on any play --- lining up in an illegal formation.

So you say the ST play was awful in the SMU game b/c they converted an onside kick, gimme a break. I never like turnovers, but they are part of the game and happen. 3 turnovers over the course of the season on special teams is NOT a disaster. That is probably about how many we got, so it is sort of a wash. More than likely you are also gonna have a punt blocked over the course of the year.

The really bad issues:
- PAT at W&M ---- seemed to be an issue with something W&M was doing, as was pointed out at the time. After being flagged for hitting the LS no longer an issue in that game.

- Fake Punt at TU --- someone should have recognized the personnel and call timeout.....but then again then someone on a message board would complain about a wasted TO.

- Onside Kick with Rich ---- looked like a mental lapse by return team, not ready for the kick......just like what we did to Villanova (and I don't see anyone complaining about how Andy Talley coached teams are not well prepared)

Stuff happens over the course of a season.

9-3 and back to back playoff seasons is a level of success JMU football has not had in a loooooong time. Sure we all want more, but this is better than we have had in at least a decade.

Not sure I'd go quite that far. The 2007 and 2008 teams both went into the postseason with talent and knowledge that they were as good as any team in the playoffs. The '07 team went toe to toe w/ the team that beat Michigan ( Appalachian State, the eventual National Champion) . The '08 team, well that was a special team.

Withers has brought the excitement back and brought the program into the modern era. Mickey was a tired and needed to step aside. That said, Coach Withers' 1st two teams come playoff time were no threat to win it all.

(12-09-2015 05:07 PM)Lwflyrod Wrote:  Holding all my other comments and grade till later on but

WE THREW THE BALL ON 4th and 3 !!!!!
Com'on Man!
Visions of the NFL "Seattle" game

We should run more.

(12-09-2015 08:57 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 02:26 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Seriously we go 9-3 and it is like the sky is falling, geez. Makes some of us sound like whiney bi**hes.

Shady when I hear 9-3 or 18-7 my response is 0-2. Like I said before, I give = weight to the playoffs as I do the regular season. Playoffs are the ultimate judge of a team's success. If you're regular season is a A, I don't care if its 11-0, and you're playoffs is an F, well when you have an A and an F, that = a C (again gave JMU a B- because of Gameday).

Given the circumstances of the Colgate game:
-63 schollies to at most 45
-Massive facilities advantage
-Colgate HC probably doesn't make half of what Withers does
-Colgate 2nd straight on road, JMU at home, coming off a bye favored by 20
This was probably the worst playoff loss in JMU history
Certainly gives the postseason a big fat "F".

Back to back postseason one and done when favored at home. Back to back postseason "F"s..

Come on BDK, upsets happen, that's why they play the games. I knew we were not 20 point favorites --- but more like a 10 point favorite. I don't like that we lost this Colgate game either but they played a dang good game and took advantage of our run defense and our miscues. Got to give Colgate a little credit too. Two kids fumbled a couple of kicks, that sucks but SH*T happens. There is really nothing coaching involved there.....I am sure these kids catch countless kicks during practice and the season all year long with little to no issue. I am not about to 'bash' these young men for dropping a ball.

If I use your rationale, our 2004 National Championship means nothing....it was just a fluke that JMU went on the road as underdogs and won those games.

We're now 1-5 in games vs. playoff teams under Withers, which is obviously abysmal. OTOH, we are 17-1 against non-playoff FCS teams (plus one FBS win). There is something to be said for winning the games you are supposed to win. If MM had done that more his last few years he might still be the coach.

(12-10-2015 10:29 AM)DooX Wrote:  We're now 1-5 in games vs. playoff teams under Withers, which is obviously abysmal. OTOH, we are 17-1 against non-playoff FCS teams (plus one FBS win). There is something to be said for winning the games you are supposed to win. If MM had done that more his last few years he might still be the coach.

There is no 'might' about that.

Bad losses are viewed more harshly than you get praise for good wins.

(12-09-2015 09:53 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 09:28 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  You guys are out of control. Most are saying the same thing, we need to get better and mostly that falls with our "D". Someone pointed out that we were something like 80th or worse in the entire FCS. Most likely that puts us in the category where our defensive peers are schools like Savannah State, Delaware State, Florida A&M, Howard, Wagner, and Mississippi Valley State. How does that sound? Are you proud of the company we are with? I'm not hate'n on those schools its just that they don't even play for a bid in the FCS playoffs and each had season ending results like 1 - 10. We have an athletic budget roughly 8X what these teams have. Now how you feeling?

When we only compete with about 80 teams for a spot in the playoffs and 24 are playing post season games, there is little honor in just making it in. Especially when we spend the money we do for this one sport. It used to be very honorable to be in the field. I'm not advocating the NCAA make changes, only that we just cannot be accepting of such a small accomplishment when every single one of us predicted our making it to the playoff prior to the season beginning.

Couldn't agree more

Ditto. Like I said in the other thread, given JMU's basically G5 facilities, HC salary, prices, support, talent, qtrfinals should be the MINIMUM most seasons.