(12-09-2015 04:28 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  The perceived difference between the Pinstripe and Military Bowl exists only for ACC fans, and I'd venture a pretty small minority of ACC fans of that. There is no loss of "prestige" in the eyes of the general public or even college football fan, who will chalk both of them up as "one of too many bowls."

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong to feel snubbed, but neither bowl has an iota of cache with the general fan. Other than the New Years Six, there's a handful of bowls which might have some resonance with people, and none of them are part of the ACC, thanks in part to the unfortunate naming of the Russel Athletic Bowl and TaxSlayer bowl, and the loss of the Chik Fi La Bowl.

Sun Bowl, maybe? If the Russell Athletic were called the Citrus Bowl, we'd have something...

(12-09-2015 04:28 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  The perceived difference between the Pinstripe and Military Bowl exists only for ACC fans, and I'd venture a pretty small minority of ACC fans of that. There is no loss of "prestige" in the eyes of the general public or even college football fan, who will chalk both of them up as "one of too many bowls."

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong to feel snubbed, but neither bowl has an iota of cache with the general fan. Other than the New Years Six, there's a handful of bowls which might have some resonance with people, and none of them are part of the ACC, thanks in part to the unfortunate naming of the Russel Athletic Bowl and TaxSlayer bowl, and the loss of the Chik Fi La Bowl.

Maybe, but I'd imagine playing in a bowl that hosted PSU last year (against BC), ND the year before that (against RU), and the Schwartzwalter Trophy game (sans the actual trophy) the year before that isn't a bad place to be - especially when compared to a bowl that's hosted VT once, UMD twice, and UCLA once in the last decade, and no other name brands (albeit probably a decent UC team and some decent ECU teams). That said, I have no idea how much the fine folks in North Carolina care about the bowl or playing in the wake of guys like ND and PSU.

(12-09-2015 07:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 04:28 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  The perceived difference between the Pinstripe and Military Bowl exists only for ACC fans, and I'd venture a pretty small minority of ACC fans of that. There is no loss of "prestige" in the eyes of the general public or even college football fan, who will chalk both of them up as "one of too many bowls."

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong to feel snubbed, but neither bowl has an iota of cache with the general fan. Other than the New Years Six, there's a handful of bowls which might have some resonance with people, and none of them are part of the ACC, thanks in part to the unfortunate naming of the Russel Athletic Bowl and TaxSlayer bowl, and the loss of the Chik Fi La Bowl.

Maybe, but I'd imagine playing in a bowl that hosted PSU last year (against BC), ND the year before that (against RU), and the Schwartzwalter Trophy game (sans the actual trophy) the year before that isn't a bad place to be - especially when compared to a bowl that's hosted VT once, UMD twice, and UCLA once in the last decade, and no other name brands (albeit probably a decent UC team and some decent ECU teams). That said, I have no idea how much the fine folks in North Carolina care about the bowl or playing in the wake of guys like ND and PSU.

For what it's worth, I was hoping Duke would play in the Military Bowl (I live in the DC area along with a lot of other Duke alums), and I don't see much difference in prestige between the bowls that aren't part of the CFP/New Year Six. I'm not going up to New York City to watch a football game in a baseball stadium, where even the best seats look like bad seats to me.

As for the payout, doesn't each school's net from their bowl games get pooled and divided up equally anyway?

(12-09-2015 07:09 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Can you create a wal-mart, bandwagon ... GT [fan]? I'm not sure.

It happened in 1991 for GT. A Final Four and National Championship had GT gear everywhere. LL Cool J was wearing GT hats in blockbuster movies. White and gold drowned out red and black in the metro as all the locals, particularly the black and poorer urban core, got behind GT.

That faded fast though. You'd think given how GT pledges unconditional full scholarship to ANY Atlanta public school Valedictorian and Salutatorian, no matter how terrible that public school is, that they'd make better inroads with the locals than they do.

(12-11-2015 06:01 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 07:09 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Can you create a wal-mart, bandwagon ... GT [fan]? I'm not sure.

It happened in 1991 for GT. A Final Four and National Championship had GT gear everywhere. LL Cool J was wearing GT hats in blockbuster movies. White and gold drowned out red and black in the metro as all the locals, particularly the black and poorer urban core, got behind GT.

That faded fast though. You'd think given how GT pledges unconditional full scholarship to ANY Atlanta public school Valedictorian and Salutatorian, no matter how terrible that public school is, that they'd make better inroads with the locals than they do.

You need real dedicated fans like this:

"Clemson" is spelled "Clemons" University on the guys tattoo all over his back, LOL, he may be dedicated but someone doesn't know how to spell

(12-11-2015 10:48 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  "Clemson" is spelled "Clemons" University on the guys tattoo all over his back, LOL, he may be dedicated but someone doesn't know how to spell

Could be photo-shopped but hilarious anyways.

(12-06-2015 06:45 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 06:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 04:13 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  We are seeing exactly what everyone who has been in this league has already said, that tobacco road runs this conference. Duke over Pitt in the Pinstripe is a complete joke.

Does Duke even want this to happen? There's no way their lack of fan support won't be embarrassingly obvious.

Duke only has about 140K living alums. Those alums are concentrated in two places - The I-85 Corridor from Raleigh to Greensboro, to Charlotte, and in the Tri-State area of NY/NJ/Conn

Take a trip up north and count the references to Duke football. I have yet to see anyone wear a Duke football shirt/pants/anything in the northeast in my entire life. Duke's NYC connection is wildly exaggerated. Sure, I bet the bball team travels well, but, unlike for football, Duke has a national fan base in basketball. They travel well everywhere.

Pretending that Duke is half northern is wildly wrong. Duke is a NC school. Giving them a bowl without built-in local support that isn't within driving distance of NC is a massive mistake - especially if the game is going to be on ABC.

Was just lurking and wanted to just pop in and say that they don't call Duke the College of New Jersey Southern Campus for nothing. Hell even Springsteen sent his kids there.

(12-12-2015 05:05 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 06:45 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 06:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 04:13 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  We are seeing exactly what everyone who has been in this league has already said, that tobacco road runs this conference. Duke over Pitt in the Pinstripe is a complete joke.

Does Duke even want this to happen? There's no way their lack of fan support won't be embarrassingly obvious.

Duke only has about 140K living alums. Those alums are concentrated in two places - The I-85 Corridor from Raleigh to Greensboro, to Charlotte, and in the Tri-State area of NY/NJ/Conn

Take a trip up north and count the references to Duke football. I have yet to see anyone wear a Duke football shirt/pants/anything in the northeast in my entire life. Duke's NYC connection is wildly exaggerated. Sure, I bet the bball team travels well, but, unlike for football, Duke has a national fan base in basketball. They travel well everywhere.

Pretending that Duke is half northern is wildly wrong. Duke is a NC school. Giving them a bowl without built-in local support that isn't within driving distance of NC is a massive mistake - especially if the game is going to be on ABC.

Was just lurking and wanted to just pop in and say that they don't call Duke the College of New Jersey Southern Campus for nothing. Hell even Springsteen sent his kids there.

I suspect a lot of the Duke alumni in the Tri-State are are grads from North Carolina who moved north to take high paying jobs in NYC after graduation. That being said, when I was in high school in NYC, and living in northern New Jersey, Duke was seen as an affordable alternative to Rutgers and Princeton for New Jersey residents who were excellent students.

Correspondingly, for students whose grades kept them out of any of those schools, East Carolina was a popular choice, since even with out of state tuition rates it was still much cheaper for Jersey residents than local colleges. And, they were known for having great parties.

(12-09-2015 04:28 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  The perceived difference between the Pinstripe and Military Bowl exists only for ACC fans, and I'd venture a pretty small minority of ACC fans of that. There is no loss of "prestige" in the eyes of the general public or even college football fan, who will chalk both of them up as "one of too many bowls."

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong to feel snubbed, but neither bowl has an iota of cache with the general fan. Other than the New Years Six, there's a handful of bowls which might have some resonance with people, and none of them are part of the ACC, thanks in part to the unfortunate naming of the Russel Athletic Bowl and TaxSlayer bowl, and the loss of the Chik Fi La Bowl.

What I don't get is why anybody thinks the Pinstripe is a Tier One bowl, whatever that is. Of the two choices, Pitt clearly was given the better one.

(12-13-2015 09:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  What I don't get is why anybody thinks the Pinstripe is a Tier One bowl, whatever that is. Of the two choices, Pitt clearly was given the better one.

It's the payout. Last year, the Pinstripe paid the ACC $2 million while the Military paid only $1 million. Not that it goes to the teams playing in it, but that's why the Pinstripe gets to choose ahead of the Military.

I say at this point it doesn't matter.... Pitt sold it's allotment and then some and asked for more tickets.

As Clairton Panther said, Pitt has sold out its allotment of tickets and asked for more. Annapolis is an attractive destination and Navy has had a good season. If Pitt wasn't 6-6 and playing in Birmingham every year it would sell more tickets.

The ticket sales show Pitt fans would have traveled to NYC for the Pinstripe as well and in much greater numbers than Duke will. The comments here from the posters from the south just reiterate that the Pinstripe is a much more attractive destination for a northeast school than schools in North Carolina. Most Pitt fans look at the Pinstripe as one of the better, if not the best destination in the Tier One bowl group. I know I'd much rather Pitt play in the Pinstripe than the Music City, Belk, or Sun bowls.

(12-13-2015 11:58 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  As Clairton Panther said, Pitt has sold out its allotment of tickets and asked for more. Annapolis is an attractive destination and Navy has had a good season. If Pitt wasn't 6-6 and playing in Birmingham every year it would sell more tickets.

The ticket sales show Pitt fans would have traveled to NYC for the Pinstripe as well and in much greater numbers than Duke will. The comments here from the posters from the south just reiterate that the Pinstripe is a much more attractive destination for a northeast school than schools in North Carolina. Most Pitt fans look at the Pinstripe as one of the better, if not the best destination in the Tier One bowl group. I know I'd much rather Pitt play in the Pinstripe than the Music City, Belk, or Sun bowls.

That holds true for all NC schools except Duke. They have plenty of alumni in the NY area. That's why the Pinstripe wanted them.

(12-13-2015 02:11 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:58 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  As Clairton Panther said, Pitt has sold out its allotment of tickets and asked for more. Annapolis is an attractive destination and Navy has had a good season. If Pitt wasn't 6-6 and playing in Birmingham every year it would sell more tickets.

The ticket sales show Pitt fans would have traveled to NYC for the Pinstripe as well and in much greater numbers than Duke will. The comments here from the posters from the south just reiterate that the Pinstripe is a much more attractive destination for a northeast school than schools in North Carolina. Most Pitt fans look at the Pinstripe as one of the better, if not the best destination in the Tier One bowl group. I know I'd much rather Pitt play in the Pinstripe than the Music City, Belk, or Sun bowls.

That holds true for all NC schools except Duke. They have plenty of alumni in the NY area. That's why the Pinstripe wanted them.

That's the thing. Duke football isn't even an afterthought in the northeast. The theory that many southerns have of Duke being a northern school is 100% wrong.

And yes, I've heard the stat that NYC has one of their biggest alumni concentrations, but that stat is horribly misleading because it's an absolute island and there are zero t-shirt fans. To show how misleading the stat is, remember that NYC is probably is in the top 5 alumni centers for +75% of FBS schools in this side of the Rockies. It's a really big city. What do you expect? The difference between random schools and northern schools is that 1) northern schools have T-shirt fans in the area and 2) northern schools have other large alumni concentrations in the general area (i.e. within a reasonably drive-able distance). Duke has neither. The difference between random schools and schools with national followings, is that schools with national followings have 1) t-shirt fans in the area, and 2) a large number of fanatical fans who will travel to the area. Duke has nether.

Given that there aren't inherently strong local ticket sales and that IU is in the same boat as Duke, that's a problem. This game won't be well-attended, which will look terrible on TV and be a black eye for the conference.

Duke would be WAY better off in MD than NYC. It's not short, but its drive-able from NC, it's close to DC (I assume Duke has a large population there), and there are probably a decent number of ACC fans in the area who might be interested in seeing Duke play (or UMD fans who might pay to see them lose). And, those factors aside, Navy would be a local team, so theoretically attendance would be less of a problem.

Pitt, however, has the fans to send to a northern bowl, and wants to go there. I know Pitt bowl attendance hasn't been great, but they've been relegated to either traveling to a different part of the country to plan an uninspired opponent, or to Detroit to plan an uninspired opponent. What do you expect their attendance numbers to look like? Let Alabama play BGSU in a bowl game in Detroit on the day after Christmas, and see who shows up.

It is what it is, but it was a terrible decision for everyone involved.

The idea that this is some sort of conspiracy against Pitt by the ACC is asinine. The Pinstripe Bowl is who selected Duke over Pitt. Take your beef up with them.


And BTW I am still amazed that there is this much heartburn over a crap bowl in a baseball stadium. The only good thing is the two dozen Pitt fans that do exist have shown that at least eight of them care about football.

Truth be known, most of the Duke alumni in the Tri-State area weren't exactly Duke football fans while they attended the school. Or if they were, they worshiped their team from afar, because they sure weren't doing it from inside Wallace Wade Stadium.

(12-13-2015 09:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 04:28 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  The perceived difference between the Pinstripe and Military Bowl exists only for ACC fans, and I'd venture a pretty small minority of ACC fans of that. There is no loss of "prestige" in the eyes of the general public or even college football fan, who will chalk both of them up as "one of too many bowls."

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong to feel snubbed, but neither bowl has an iota of cache with the general fan. Other than the New Years Six, there's a handful of bowls which might have some resonance with people, and none of them are part of the ACC, thanks in part to the unfortunate naming of the Russel Athletic Bowl and TaxSlayer bowl, and the loss of the Chik Fi La Bowl.

What I don't get is why anybody thinks the Pinstripe is a Tier One bowl, whatever that is. Of the two choices, Pitt clearly was given the better one.

That is ridiculous

One bowl is on ABC TV on Saturday at 3:30pm vs the B1G in the one famous stadium in the #1 city of the US

the other is played at 1:30pm on Monday...vs the AAC

Good grief how does this thread have such legs?

The Pinstripe is much better than the Military bowl in most years. This year the Military is made better by Navy's record and the Pinstripe is made less by Indiana.

NYC wanted Duke over Pittsburgh for socio-economic reasons tied to the NYC area. What self respecting Duke alum would wear a Duke football shirt or even own one if he were younger than 85? Duke's glory days in football ended in 1962. That doesn't mean that a Duke grad would not take in a Duke football game near him, given Duke no longer sucks. But that doesn't mean he is going to beat his chest or buy Duke football paraphernalia.

(12-06-2015 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 04:13 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  We are seeing exactly what everyone who has been in this league has already said, that tobacco road runs this conference. Duke over Pitt in the Pinstripe is a complete joke.

Does Duke even want this to happen? There's no way their lack of fan support won't be embarrassingly obvious.

The game is Duke and Indiana and there are going to be about 15K people in the stands.