Given the sharp gradient in resources between G5 and P5, doesn't the market actually give us the verdict on our head coach?

In other words, if Bailiff hasn't been hired away after 4-5 years, isn't it prima facie evidence of mediocrity, no matter what the afternoon crew on 610 says or how many players cry in pressers?

Just a different way of reasoning to the same conclusions, which are that the university, for whatever reason, is satisfied with our results and the media praise Bailiff because they view anything above winless/Bottom 10 as distinctive performance for Rice.

UH probably sensed Levine wouldn't be hired away so ran him off. Hermann clearly will be unless he flies the plane into the mountain next year. Ditto Dykes and Brohm. Fuentes already hired.

Thanks, we needed another thread on this.

(12-04-2015 04:05 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Given the sharp gradient in resources between G5 and P5, doesn't the market actually give us the verdict on our head coach?

In other words, if Bailiff hasn't been hired away after 4-5 years, isn't it prima facie evidence of mediocrity, no matter what the afternoon crew on 610 says or how many players cry in pressers?

Just a different way of reasoning to the same conclusions, which are that the university, for whatever reason, is satisfied with our results and the media praise Bailiff because they view anything above winless/Bottom 10 as distinctive performance for Rice.

UH probably sensed Levine wouldn't be hired away so ran him off. Hermann clearly will be unless he flies the plane into the mountain next year. Ditto Dykes and Brohm. Fuentes already hired.

Points well taken. Had not thought from that perspective, but it seems valid.

(12-04-2015 04:05 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Given the sharp gradient in resources between G5 and P5, doesn't the market actually give us the verdict on our head coach?
In other words, if Bailiff hasn't been hired away after 4-5 years, isn't it prima facie evidence of mediocrity, no matter what the afternoon crew on 610 says or how many players cry in pressers?
Just a different way of reasoning to the same conclusions, which are that the university, for whatever reason, is satisfied with our results and the media praise Bailiff because they view anything above winless/Bottom 10 as distinctive performance for Rice.
UH probably sensed Levine wouldn't be hired away so ran him off. Hermann clearly will be unless he flies the plane into the mountain next year. Ditto Dykes and Brohm. Fuentes already hired.

This is one reason why I have never bought into this idea that it's important to hire a coach who will come here and stay. In the current environment, I don't want a coach who will stay. I want a coach who will come here and do such a fantastic job that P5 schools throw absurd amounts of money at him to get him to leave. And I will understand and be happy for him and his family when he hits that jackpot. Then I want to follow him with another who does the same, and another after him who does the same. If we can do a Koetter-Hawkins-Petersen thing, then we will be at the point where the big boys may invite us back to their table.

If I were hiring a coach, I'd give him a long term contract with peanuts for a buyout provision. I don't want a buyout holding him back if he gets a great offer, and I don't want it as a hindrance if I decide to make a change. I would put a huge penalty in there if he recruits any player committed to Rice after he leaves. I would say maybe $100,000 per uncompleted year, either way, or $500,000 per player if he contacts any player committed to Rice.

I've asked this before, would you rather be 11-1 and worried that Herman is going to get hired away, or 5-7 and certain that Bailiff isn't?

No offense, but I'd rather be 5-7 and Rice than be 12-1 and UH.

(12-04-2015 04:05 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Given the sharp gradient in resources between G5 and P5, doesn't the market actually give us the verdict on our head coach?
In other words, if Bailiff hasn't been hired away after 4-5 years, isn't it prima facie evidence of mediocrity, no matter what the afternoon crew on 610 says or how many players cry in pressers?

Funny you should mention that.

(12-05-2015 06:16 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  WKU AD's take on coaching changes from the main board:

(12-04-2015 06:39 PM)galojah Wrote:  

Quote:Q.As an athletic director, when you have coaches that will obviously be courted by other schools, how do you handle that?
A.I think every athletic director in the country has to have a short list that you'd go to if you need it. The way I try to look at it is, we have great coaches. I've never felt better about our football coaches from the head coach to every position coach than I do this year. We'll do everything we can to keep them. Certainly, not being in a Power 5 conference, there are financial limitations we have that schools with openings don't have. The way I try to look at it is, if somebody’s interested in our coach, that means we're having a great season, and that’s a good problem to have. If you go three to five years and nobody’s interested in your people, then maybe you don’t have the right people.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/spo.../76663770/

(12-05-2015 10:28 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  No offense, but I'd rather be 5-7 and Rice than be 12-1 and UH.

I think that presumes (incorrectly, I would hope) that you have to be 5-7 to be Rice and you have to be UH to be 12-1. I'd rather be 12-1 and be Rice.

(12-05-2015 12:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 04:05 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Given the sharp gradient in resources between G5 and P5, doesn't the market actually give us the verdict on our head coach?
In other words, if Bailiff hasn't been hired away after 4-5 years, isn't it prima facie evidence of mediocrity, no matter what the afternoon crew on 610 says or how many players cry in pressers?
Just a different way of reasoning to the same conclusions, which are that the university, for whatever reason, is satisfied with our results and the media praise Bailiff because they view anything above winless/Bottom 10 as distinctive performance for Rice.
UH probably sensed Levine wouldn't be hired away so ran him off. Hermann clearly will be unless he flies the plane into the mountain next year. Ditto Dykes and Brohm. Fuentes already hired.

This is one reason why I have never bought into this idea that it's important to hire a coach who will come here and stay. In the current environment, I don't want a coach who will stay. I want a coach who will come here and do such a fantastic job that P5 schools throw absurd amounts of money at him to get him to leave. And I will understand and be happy for him and his family when he hits that jackpot. Then I want to follow him with another who does the same, and another after him who does the same. If we can do a Koetter-Hawkins-Petersen thing, then we will be at the point where the big boys may invite us back to their table.

If I were hiring a coach, I'd give him a long term contract with peanuts for a buyout provision. I don't want a buyout holding him back if he gets a great offer, and I don't want it as a hindrance if I decide to make a change. I would put a huge penalty in there if he recruits any player committed to Rice after he leaves. I would say maybe $100,000 per uncompleted year, either way, or $500,000 per player if he contacts any player committed to Rice.

I've asked this before, would you rather be 11-1 and worried that Herman is going to get hired away, or 5-7 and certain that Bailiff isn't?

I believe it is Nutt-Koetter-Hawkins-Petersen.

I forgot about the Right Reverend Houston. I guess that's because he was only there a year. But he should definitely be included in the progression.

Just looking at the progression, each succeeding coach was there longer--Nutt 1 year, Kotter 3 years, Hawkins 5 years, Petersen 8 years.

(12-05-2015 10:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 10:28 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  No offense, but I'd rather be 5-7 and Rice than be 12-1 and UH.

I think that presumes (incorrectly, I would hope) that you have to be 5-7 to be Rice and you have to be UH to be 12-1. I'd rather be 12-1 and be Rice.

I like that option too. 'Specially if we get to go to an access bowl. Let's do that one next year!