I was at game and haven't seen replay nor do all the bad calls stand out right now from last night but the Clark foul was horrible and not sure why Ellis got a T (maybe a new slogan Hands Up Don't T!)

The technical on mick was simply poor officiating as well.

I presume those were Big East officials. Why are there officials associated with leagues and not simply the NCAA?

So why are they so bad?

Is it incompetence?

Is it arrogance?

Is it that they simply don't care?

Do some have agendas? For a team?...against a player or coach?

Is there corruption and cheating and fixes?

The officials should be a nearly invisible part of the game. When people notice officials it has gone terribly wrong. Often they act like bad or rogue cops do. I was a cop...you don't arrest someone unless you're sure of what you saw. I don't think refs follow the same standard. I also think they expect a foul sometimes or think that guy slipped because he had to be pushed.

I think officials with bad temperments need to be removed from the game. If you're T'ing coaches and players up more than other officials you should find new work.

But sadly mostly I think these guys have no pride and they don't care. Pay me. The only thing they care about is perception of being in control.

The bald headed black ref last night clearly called about 85-90% of his fouls against UC. That guy was either pro-Butler, or had Butler and the points, or both.

Officials are associated with the NCAA. They just usually handle games in a couple different leagues, usually in the same geographic area.

That's a loaded question.

For starters, there really is no such thing as "Big East" or "ACC" or "American" officials. All referees in all sports are independent contractors that work for themselves. The conference league offices usually hire them on a game by game basis. They don't report to the league office or work exclusively for any specific conference. So, when someone is their own boss, there isn't always a whole lot of recourse.

I recognize Doug Sirmons. He's actually done some UC games already this year, and primarily works for the AAC. Mike Roberts does both men's and women's games. Alred Smith also does men's and women's games.

For conference games, there is a coordinator of officiating. They basically hire/assign officials for each conference game. The problem is that there is very little screening done. All they're really looking for is who is most affordable.

For OOC games, it's generally the home team that takes care of it, but both schools usually have to agree on it. Most don't spend a whole lot of time worrying about it because they just look at it as the referees being interchangeable.

But, in their defense, it's a thankless job, and unless you're working close to 200 games a year, it's a supplementary income. Many individuals who could be good referees just decide it isn't worth it. I think part of the problem is that since they're paid so little and since they basically work for themselves, the conferences, the NCAA, and the individual teams are kind of getting what they pay for. I'd be all for a complete overhaul where being an NCAA referee is a full time job. We want the best people, and we're willing to pay them a full time salary. That's not going to happen, though, so we'll continue to have poor officiating.

(12-03-2015 11:52 AM)subflea Wrote:  Officials are associated with the NCAA. They just usually handle games in a couple different leagues, usually in the same geographic area.

They're really not associated with the NCAA. The NCAA only concerns itself with officiating when it comes to the NCAA Tournaments. They have a committee that selects the referees just like they have on that selects the teams. But, they have no say in who does what games outside of that. That's a conference issue, or an issue that the two teams work out (generally the home team) if it's an OOC game.

I agree with most of what you said with the exception about it being supplemental income. Most make between 2-3K per game + travel expenses and most work 75-90 games per year. Do the math.

(12-03-2015 12:04 PM)David HD Wrote:  But, in their defense, it's a thankless job, and unless you're working close to 200 games a year, it's a supplementary income. Many individuals who could be good referees just decide it isn't worth it. I think part of the problem is that since they're paid so little and since they basically work for themselves, the conferences, the NCAA, and the individual teams are kind of getting what they pay for. I'd be all for a complete overhaul where being an NCAA referee is a full time job. We want the best people, and we're willing to pay them a full time salary. That's not going to happen, though, so we'll continue to have poor officiating.

Not to get into conspiracies, but there is very little effort to catch corrupt officials in any league. Tim Donaghy wasn't caught by the NBA, he was caught by accident during an unrelated FBI investigation. There is no way he was the only ref in MLB, CFB, CBB, NFL, NBA, or NHL who was dirty. That's statistically impossible with $100B in gambling going on. The leagues don't really want to know.

I wouldn't mind that kind of supplement. I wouldn't need to be thanked for that kind of money.

I suppose high pay is necessary to avoid the temptation to cheat for extra money. But I guess that also is mitigated by how much that "extra" is.

(12-03-2015 01:55 PM)Leojrellim Wrote:  I agree with most of what you said with the exception about it being supplemental income. Most make between 2-3K per game + travel expenses and most work 75-90 games per year. Do the math.

(12-03-2015 12:04 PM)David HD Wrote:  But, in their defense, it's a thankless job, and unless you're working close to 200 games a year, it's a supplementary income. Many individuals who could be good referees just decide it isn't worth it. I think part of the problem is that since they're paid so little and since they basically work for themselves, the conferences, the NCAA, and the individual teams are kind of getting what they pay for. I'd be all for a complete overhaul where being an NCAA referee is a full time job. We want the best people, and we're willing to pay them a full time salary. That's not going to happen, though, so we'll continue to have poor officiating.

my gripe about last night is I kept looking for the make up calls you usually get at home and they never came.

(12-03-2015 02:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  my gripe about last night is I kept looking for the make up calls you usually get at home and they never came.

There's no makeup calls for putting one of our best players on the bench with a phantom call and then Ting the coach. Or the garbage call against KJ. Calls may even out but the timing of the horrific calls really hurt.

That's not what "most" make. That's what a very small percentage of them make. The MAC and Horizon League iaren't paying referees $3000 a game. The vast majority don't pay anywhere close to $1000. I find it very hard to believe that UC paid each of the three refs, plus the supervisor of officials, $3000 a piece.

(12-03-2015 01:55 PM)Leojrellim Wrote:  I agree with most of what you said with the exception about it being supplemental income. Most make between 2-3K per game + travel expenses and most work 75-90 games per year. Do the math.

(12-03-2015 12:04 PM)David HD Wrote:  But, in their defense, it's a thankless job, and unless you're working close to 200 games a year, it's a supplementary income. Many individuals who could be good referees just decide it isn't worth it. I think part of the problem is that since they're paid so little and since they basically work for themselves, the conferences, the NCAA, and the individual teams are kind of getting what they pay for. I'd be all for a complete overhaul where being an NCAA referee is a full time job. We want the best people, and we're willing to pay them a full time salary. That's not going to happen, though, so we'll continue to have poor officiating.

I think alot of the bad officiating we are seeing in sports is there are too many calls that are left to interpretation and judgement lIke complete catches in football, charge calls in basketball and traveling . The travel rule is very confusing, and it is even worse in the NBA.

I also think there should be a full time referee watching a monitor at all times. He should be able to overturn any call at any time. We have the technology to get these calls right, why not take advantage of it?