The Big 12 lucked out this year - if TCU and Baylor were playing at full strength, its likely Oklahoma has another loss, and the B12 misses the play-off yet again.

I'm of the opinion they just need to bit the bullet, go back to 12, and get themselves a title game.

Here is a scenerio that I think would work:

Add Cincinatti as an all-sports school. WVU needs a partner out east.

Add BYU as football only. Let BYU play its other sports in the Big West or wherever, its understandable they have travel concerns.


For football - the following divisions-

Keep the old Big 8 together
ISU, KSU, KU, OU, OSU, Texas

The new guys-
BYU, Cinci, WVU, TTch, Baylor, TCU

PLEASE.....MAKE IT STOP.........

Texas was never in the Big 8.

Why is this fascination for BYU to the Big 12? They will never get an invite. It would be Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF and possibly Houston. If those 6 were in the Big 12 this year? The Big 12 CCG would be between Houston and Oklahoma.

Maybe they should do that, but here's what they're actually going to do: nothing.

- Not going to lose any teams
- Not going to expand
- Not going to hold a CCG

too bad for the big 12.....doing nothing leaves nothing

(12-01-2015 04:17 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The Big 12 lucked out this year - if TCU and Baylor were playing at full strength, its likely Oklahoma has another loss, and the B12 misses the play-off yet again.

If Oklahoma has 1 more loss, then somebody else has 1 less loss and would be in the playoff instead.

(12-01-2015 09:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 04:17 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The Big 12 lucked out this year - if TCU and Baylor were playing at full strength, its likely Oklahoma has another loss, and the B12 misses the play-off yet again.

If Oklahoma has 1 more loss, then somebody else has 1 less loss and would be in the playoff instead.

Not necessarily...
Oklahoma St or Baylor. No. Not with their putrid schedules. Even TCU- which had a P5 win- I think Stanford gets in over any of those(and Ohio St would be a factor as well).

I would be intertestd in seeing them add BYU and Colorado State, to complete a western region in college football

(12-01-2015 10:38 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I would be intertestd in seeing them add BYU and Colorado State, to complete a western region in college football

That would be my preference as well - CSU is adding a new stadium upgrade, and w/B12 competition would up recruiting to be better than Kansas and ISU at least.

If they do this, I'd be in favor of a division that keeps the old Big 8 together - ISU, KU, KSU, OU, OSU- then maybe I guess WVU

(12-01-2015 08:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Why is this fascination for BYU to the Big 12? They will never get an invite. It would be Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF and possibly Houston. If those 6 were in the Big 12 this year? The Big 12 CCG would be between Houston and Oklahoma.

I'm not sure if you are really being serious here. But, just in case, here would be the rationale:

1. Media Market - BYU brings in Salt Lake media market (bigger than Memphis and Cincy) as well as #12 Phoenix. Would make a Big 12 network feasible without Texas, Oklahoma, or Kansas giving up their own networks.
2. Attendance - East Carolina has really good attendance, but BYU has been averaging 60K+ for over 35 years, and 16K+ at basketball for 45 years.
3. Does anything else really matter? O yeah, winning games, year after year, through multiple coaches, in multiple sports.

BYU and Colorado St. also bring history from the WAC and MWC days, they expand a contiguous conference footprint, and both already have OOC P5 rivalry games.

Are there any other non-P5 programs that have a P5 rival? Navy & Notre Dame, may be....

Speaking of Navy, I actually think they would be a good football only member for the Big 12. And, there wouldn't be a stigma for Navy football only because Navy is already doing that with the AAC and prefers its Olympic sports in the Patriot League.

If you added Navy and Cincinnati, that would make a nice eastern Big 12 arm that is right on the B1G-SEC border and right through the middle of the ACC. Cincinnati and WVU become a travel pair for Olympic sports.

I believe the Big 12 would do well to add all four. That creates 2 new games of television inventory in the meat of the conference season - not only does the additional inventory add value to the media contract, but there is also better selection for more intriguing matchups in some of the better timeslots.

Plus, there's inventory for a conference network - even if the LHN remains. And, with Navy and BYU, you have two national fan bases to help spread the network - with lots of TV homes on both coasts (especially California). It also brings the Navy-Army, BYU-Utah, and CSU-Colorado games to the OOC inventory every other year. Add the Military Bowl (v. ACC) and Holiday Bowl (v. PAC 12) to the Big 12 lineup.

I'm sure you could come up with decent divisions, but I would opt for deregulated schedules. Everyone has two annual rivals and then rotates the other 6-7 games among the other 11 teams; play everyone in conference at least every other year. With four Texas-based teams, stagger the schedules such that everyone in the conference plays at least one game in Texas each year.

Texas: Oklahoma, Texas Tech
Texas Tech: Texas, Baylor
Baylor: TCU, Texas Tech
TCU: Baylor, BYU
Oklahoma: Texas, OSU
OSU: Oklahoma, KSU
Kansas: KSU, ISU
KSU: Kansas, OSU
ISU: Kansas, KSU
WVU: Cincinnati, Navy
Cincinnati: WVU, Navy
Navy: WVU, Cincinnati
BYU: CSU, TCU
CSU: BYU, ISU

Annual CCG in Arlington.

If Navy and BYU are football only, the Olympic sports align nicely. Everyone gets a travel partner: WVU-Cincy and ISU-CSU.

The Big 12 is the best division in football. That's the way to look at them. For a 13th game, I would look at the highest ranked between Independents or the second best team in the division. Baylor/TCU last year to bolster resumes, or OU and ND this year.

(12-02-2015 12:09 PM)YNot Wrote:  Are there any other non-P5 programs that have a P5 rival? Navy & Notre Dame, may be....

That's an overlooked upside of CSU. The "Big 8 wing" of the B12 was hurt most by defections. They lost 3 of their original 8 members. They could recapture some of their regional identity by emphasizing OOC P5 rivalries:

Oklahoma/Nebraska
Kansas/Mizzou
ISU/Iowa
CSU/Colorado

Granted, it would take some time for Kansas/Mizzou to bury the hatchet. But that's kind of the point. These are established rivalries with real passion. That makes for quality TV & has a stabilizing effect on the conference. There's a similar dynamic in the ACC. All of the schools outside of that Tobacco Road core have meaningful OOC rivalries against P5 teams.

The "SWC wing" is the B12's Tobacco Road. They stick together because of history. And even if they lose a member (aside from keystones UNC & UT) they can easily backfill. B12 lost aTm & TCU has been a pretty solid replacement.

CSU still needs to demonstrate their value on-field. So I can't blame the B12 for waiting. They're on the right track, though. They're still building that stadium, CU games are extremely competitive & they routinely beat up the dregs of the MWC.

I think if the B12 were to expand the OBVIOUS choices would be Central Florida and South Florida. They are more valuable as a pair than they would be separately. Also, they add a badly needed new recruiting area and two top 15 TV markets. I don't even think this one is tough. If you go to 14 schools, that is when you can start talking about teams like Cincinnati, BYU, Memphis, Houston, etc.

I'm in accord with jg and ynot, in principle. Here's what I think the Big12 *COULD* do:

following jg, yes, keep the old Big8 and SWC schools in their respective divisions. Granted, UK-KSU and UO-OSU have lovely-nasty rivalries there, and ISU is lookin' for an end-of-year rivalry now that Mizzou and Nubs have left for other conferences.

following ynot, yes, there are benefits that CSU-BYU bring to any conference as a pair, and I like the 2 permanent matchups mixed in with some division stuff.

I've been considering a 12 + 2 format, in that Cincy-WVU would be a great cross-division end-of-season matchup. The existing 10 Big12 schools add CSU and New Mexico or BYU. New Mexico doesn't bring as many TVs to a conference as does BYU, but UNM has a hell of an athletic department, outside football (which is improving). Plus, UNM's inclusion eases any congressional turmoil by including 2 senators and 3 representatives in states with well-resourced (P5) membership. Plus-plus, they'd fit in nicely with a north-south split and have a history with TTU (42 games of mostly getting their tails kicked).

BYU or UNM...either could work. So, AllRams, who is the 4th school added after Cincy, CSU, & BYU/UNM? The 4 Texas members of the Big12/SWC might be inclined to invite Houston or Rice, and that doesn't do much to expand the conference's footprint. I'm going out on a limb and inserting Tulane in the 4th spot: academics & location. Yes, they've been putrid in athletics for a long time. Who wouldn't want to go to New Orleans for a game in any sport?

ynot brings a good point about BYU & CSU having annual OOC against well-resourced5 schools. I don't think the Big12 would want partial membership with Navy.

We're all having a great time thinking about the Big12's possibilities, and I think they expand at some point. I highly doubt FSU & Clemson would leave the ACC for the Big12. So I think the Big12 presidents look at the structural benefits to 'calling up' less-resourced5 schools. In this view, Cincy/CSU/BYU have tremendous assets. I also think Houston/Rice/Tulane have assets, tho in different proportion to the former schools.

Wadda I know? My school is on the outside looking in, and they're doing absolutely everything to 'ascend' to a WR5 conference. Lookin' forward to our bowl game this year and all the offseason speculation.

(12-01-2015 09:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 09:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 04:17 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The Big 12 lucked out this year - if TCU and Baylor were playing at full strength, its likely Oklahoma has another loss, and the B12 misses the play-off yet again.

If Oklahoma has 1 more loss, then somebody else has 1 less loss and would be in the playoff instead.

Not necessarily...
Oklahoma St or Baylor. No. Not with their putrid schedules. Even TCU- which had a P5 win- I think Stanford gets in over any of those(and Ohio St would be a factor as well).

I thought before the round robin with the top 4 schools, any team that went undefeated would be in. The round robin ended up going 3-0, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 (could have also been 3-0, 2-1, 1-2 and 0-3). The other possibility was two teams going 2-1 and two 1-2 or 3 going 2-1 and one going 0-3. I think 3 2-1 and one 0-3 might have been enough for one of the 2-1 schools, depending on the details.

(12-02-2015 02:47 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 12:09 PM)YNot Wrote:  Are there any other non-P5 programs that have a P5 rival? Navy & Notre Dame, may be....

That's an overlooked upside of CSU. The "Big 8 wing" of the B12 was hurt most by defections. They lost 3 of their original 8 members. They could recapture some of their regional identity by emphasizing OOC P5 rivalries:

Oklahoma/Nebraska
Kansas/Mizzou
ISU/Iowa
CSU/Colorado

Granted, it would take some time for Kansas/Mizzou to bury the hatchet. But that's kind of the point. These are established rivalries with real passion. That makes for quality TV & has a stabilizing effect on the conference. There's a similar dynamic in the ACC. All of the schools outside of that Tobacco Road core have meaningful OOC rivalries against P5 teams.

The "SWC wing" is the B12's Tobacco Road. They stick together because of history. And even if they lose a member (aside from keystones UNC & UT) they can easily backfill. B12 lost aTm & TCU has been a pretty solid replacement.

CSU still needs to demonstrate their value on-field. So I can't blame the B12 for waiting. They're on the right track, though. They're still building that stadium, CU games are extremely competitive & they routinely beat up the dregs of the MWC.

Iowa was the first to defect the Big 8 moving to the Big 10.
Grinnell departed to join D3.

Someone forgot Houston is already a long time rival with Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and TCU from the old SWC days.

Memphis rivals happened to be in the SEC especially in basketball. Plus, they were in the Metro with a bunch of the ACC schools.

Boise State is already starting a long trend of instant rivalry against the PAC 12 North teams except for Stanford.

Tulsa is already a long time rival of the Big 12 Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

Northern Iowa is also a long time rivals to Iowa and Iowa State.

Cincinnati is already a rival to West Virginia. So is UConn. and USF.

UCF could be a rival to USF.

East Carolina already have rivalry games against ACC schools.

Temple does have rivalry games in basketball against the ACC schools.

(12-02-2015 02:50 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  I'm in accord with jg and ynot, in principle. Here's what I think the Big12 *COULD* do:

following jg, yes, keep the old Big8 and SWC schools in their respective divisions. Granted, UK-KSU and UO-OSU have lovely-nasty rivalries there, and ISU is lookin' for an end-of-year rivalry now that Mizzou and Nubs have left for other conferences.

following ynot, yes, there are benefits that CSU-BYU bring to any conference as a pair, and I like the 2 permanent matchups mixed in with some division stuff.

I've been considering a 12 + 2 format, in that Cincy-WVU would be a great cross-division end-of-season matchup. The existing 10 Big12 schools add CSU and New Mexico or BYU. New Mexico doesn't bring as many TVs to a conference as does BYU, but UNM has a hell of an athletic department, outside football (which is improving). Plus, UNM's inclusion eases any congressional turmoil by including 2 senators and 3 representatives in states with well-resourced (P5) membership. Plus-plus, they'd fit in nicely with a north-south split and have a history with TTU (42 games of mostly getting their tails kicked).

BYU or UNM...either could work. So, AllRams, who is the 4th school added after Cincy, CSU, & BYU/UNM? The 4 Texas members of the Big12/SWC might be inclined to invite Houston or Rice, and that doesn't do much to expand the conference's footprint. I'm going out on a limb and inserting Tulane in the 4th spot: academics & location. Yes, they've been putrid in athletics for a long time. Who wouldn't want to go to New Orleans for a game in any sport?

ynot brings a good point about BYU & CSU having annual OOC against well-resourced5 schools. I don't think the Big12 would want partial membership with Navy.

We're all having a great time thinking about the Big12's possibilities, and I think they expand at some point. I highly doubt FSU & Clemson would leave the ACC for the Big12. So I think the Big12 presidents look at the structural benefits to 'calling up' less-resourced5 schools. In this view, Cincy/CSU/BYU have tremendous assets. I also think Houston/Rice/Tulane have assets, tho in different proportion to the former schools.

Wadda I know? My school is on the outside looking in, and they're doing absolutely everything to 'ascend' to a WR5 conference. Lookin' forward to our bowl game this year and all the offseason speculation.

Big XIV WEST
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
BYU
Colorado State
New Mexico

Big XIV EAST
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Houston

Add NIU (Northern Illinois). Chicago media market dwarfs any others mentioned. Big 12 needs to add schools in the central or eastern time zone. Not mountain time zone.