(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

Any idea where the schedules have ranked in SOS the last few years? It helps to have nunbers to look at when making statements about how easy our schedules are. I looked it up before but would prefer to not have to do that again.

If memory serves correct, this year was very bad, 2014 was decent, 2013 was bad, and 2012 was decent. I think 2011 was one of our hardest in a while.

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

+1 excellent points and post, VolenteBeachOwl.

(11-29-2015 04:53 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

Any idea where the schedules have ranked in SOS the last few years? It helps to have nunbers to look at when making statements about how easy our schedules are. I looked it up before but would prefer to not have to do that again.

If memory serves correct, this year was very bad, 2014 was decent, 2013 was bad, and 2012 was decent. I think 2011 was one of our hardest in a while.

For ease of lookup, I'm adopting Massey's SOS here (not the Massey composite, the actual Massey ratings):

2015: 125th
2014: 79
2013: 87
2012: 105
2011: 63
2010: 93
2009: 84
2008: 87
2007: 114
2006: 78
2005: 73

So, this year's schedule is the weakest of the last decade, but not drastically so. If you want to go back to SWC SOS, more power to you, but I'm not sure how comparing now to 1988 (or 1958, for that matter) helps the conversation.

Running a simple linear regression on this, the trend is a drop of 1.8 SOS spots per year; however, the (r^2) value of this trend is ~0.11, suggesting that the trend here is very, very weak.

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:12 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:08 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Maybe this is the real perception of the program outside of this board?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_...ame-speech

Maybe because they have his record wrong?

"The Owls are 70-68 since Bailiff took over". EDIT: Should be 53-60

It's great that the players love their coach, but that doesn't mean the school retains Bailiff solely because of it.

Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Really. We were 5-7 beating 4 of the worst teams in FBS and a 1-10 Wagner team. Really. Come on now, your better than that.

(11-29-2015 01:08 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Maybe this is the real perception of the program outside of this board?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_...ame-speech

I think the MVP this year is the communications guy at Rice- Chuck Pool. He knows how to make Bailiff look good. Great Luke loves his coach, hundreds love Mark Richt at Georgia.

If people love Bailiff so much why did we have 600 folks in attendance yesterday. There were more folks at the high school games in the area. I heard he got booed again and we did not score a TD on the #127 team until the end of the third quarter.

(11-29-2015 04:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

VBO- the answer is yes. They want us to sit back and do nothing. its the easier option.

Meh. There are better things to spend time on. MBB for starters.

I am a Stanford fan. Before Harbaugh Stanford was I believe 1-11. Did anyone besides me watch the game last night. Exciting. Well played. Stands full. Excitement everywhere. (Wow, no Thanksgiving break used for an excuse) Rushing the field after Stanford won. Stanford has advantages we lack, but much of the differences are more illusory than real. The main difference is a difference in will, a determination to get to the top. Will we anytime in the next 25 years be a top 10 team. I doubt it. But we could be top 40 or 50. And exciting could return. And fans. But it requires a change. It requires will. It requires determination.

How good would our Special Ops be if we said, well, that is the best we can do. Nobody can do better. We'll just settle. As long as you impose limitations on yourself, you will not excel.

We can be more than we are. We don't have to be the laughingstock of media articles. But it takes will. It takes a choice. Some posters here do not want to make the choice, to do what needs to be done. They are satisfied with life in the super slow lane, or with "wishing and hoping."

(11-29-2015 06:42 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 04:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

VBO- the answer is yes. They want us to sit back and do nothing. its the easier option.

Meh. There are better things to spend time on. MBB for starters.

I am a Stanford fan. Before Harbaugh Stanford was I believe 1-11. Did anyone besides me watch the game last night. Exciting. Well played. Stands full. Excitement everywhere. (Wow, no Thanksgiving break used for an excuse) Rushing the field after Stanford won. Stanford has advantages we lack, but much of the differences are more illusory than real. The main difference is a difference in will, a determination to get to the top. Will we anytime in the next 25 years be a top 10 team. I doubt it. But we could be top 40 or 50. And exciting could return. And fans. But it requires a change. It requires will. It requires determination.

How good would our Special Ops be if we said, well, that is the best we can do. Nobody can do better. We'll just settle. As long as you impose limitations on yourself, you will not excel.

We can be more than we are. We don't have to be the laughingstock of media articles. But it takes will. It takes a choice. Some posters here do not want to make the choice, to do what needs to be done. They are satisfied with life in the super slow lane, or with "wishing and hoping."

So what choice do these posters not want to make that needs to be made, and how can they affect change if they decide to make said change?

I agree that if Rice decides to compete, that they can find a way to consistently be successful - but it isn't a guarantee that we will (see all other schools who do try to compete but don't succeed). But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I do think that we are at a point after this year that we need to now focus on getting back on track with the product on the field since we've now made a dent into the facilities deficit and the on-field results this year necessitate a staff change.

In regards to Stanford, I do think you might discount the significant funding advantages Stanford enjoys compared to us to little. Don't they regularly win a number of national titles in various sports because they financially support a much larger number of sports to a much greater degree than we do? Having a rich history of athletic achievement helps move mountains, IMO. This isn't to say that we can't overcome years of ineptitude if we put forth the effort, just that Stanford is positioned to excel at any given sport at any given time due to their past decisions.

I get your hate for Bailiff Saints Owl, but you take one of the few feel good stories we had and turn it into your 99th tirade on Baliff. Did you get cut from your 7th grade team or what?

(11-29-2015 06:58 PM)ETx Owl Wrote:  I get your hate for Bailiff Saints Owl, but you take one of the few feel good stories we had and turn it into your 99th tirade on Baliff. Did you get cut from your 7th grade team or what?

Kind of what I imagine when I read his/her posts now. Seems personal.

(11-29-2015 06:42 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 04:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? When I read your post about a replacement "doing better" than Bailiff, how is it even possible to do worse than a losing record against one of America's weakest schedules and playing in front of an empty stadium?

For the "front the money" brigade, are you suggesting that we do nothing? Our program is descending into completely irrelevance, if it's not already there. Ridiculously easy schedules over the past several years have masked the descent and tricked those who don't follow the program closely into thinking that the team was improving. Meanwhile, our crosstown rival hired our former offensive coordinator and is thriving. So don't tell me that it's impossible to find a coach who can do better than Bailiff -- because we had one on our staff already.

VBO- the answer is yes. They want us to sit back and do nothing. its the easier option.

Meh. There are better things to spend time on. MBB for starters.

I am a Stanford fan. Before Harbaugh Stanford was I believe 1-11. Did anyone besides me watch the game last night. Exciting. Well played. Stands full. Excitement everywhere. (Wow, no Thanksgiving break used for an excuse) Rushing the field after Stanford won. Stanford has advantages we lack, but much of the differences are more illusory than real. The main difference is a difference in will, a determination to get to the top. Will we anytime in the next 25 years be a top 10 team. I doubt it. But we could be top 40 or 50. And exciting could return. And fans. But it requires a change. It requires will. It requires determination.

How good would our Special Ops be if we said, well, that is the best we can do. Nobody can do better. We'll just settle. As long as you impose limitations on yourself, you will not excel.

We can be more than we are. We don't have to be the laughingstock of media articles. But it takes will. It takes a choice. Some posters here do not want to make the choice, to do what needs to be done. They are satisfied with life in the super slow lane, or with "wishing and hoping."

Ranger - I watched it. Was a heck of a game.

Agree with everything you posted. In my case, until Rice decides that the little leagues are truly no longer where we want to be, I'm not going to waste my time or effort on it. Really not worth it especially when we have a MBB team that seems to not be content with being terrible and justifying the lack of it by virtue of injuries, money, etc etc etc insert reason here. These fluffy feel good stories are nice but they seem to frequently distract and smoke and mirrors the real problem. There is a place where feel good fluff and nothing else is appreciated - Dvision 3

Rice Rising. Looking forward to the progress we make there. It's our final bastion of hope to make us relevant on the national stage.

Also, thank you for saying my teammates and I were part of a descent of a football program and what we did doesn't really matter.

By the way, I wonder why he left Rice? Oh wait, because he wasn't getting paid. He moved on to a place that would pay him for his skill. It's not that difficult of a concept. You get what you pay for. Get the school to pump money into the salaries of the coaches, then talk to me. Otherwise you'll get more of the same. Guys sticking around towards the end of their career or bright minds moving on because they can get paid better elsewhere.
[/quote]

Re: your first paragraph, nobody here has ever even come close to belittling the players like that, or failing to appreciate their vital and significant contributions. Was there not a "Thank you, seniors" thread for your class? This board supports student-athletes not only more than most Div. I message boards, but more than any segment of Rice itself. After all, we are, collectively, those relative few in each class over the years that supported Rice Athletics (and/or played ourselves). The percentage of support players get here outweighs anything they ever got in their commons, their classes, or in Lovett Hall. Their efforts were, are, and always have been appreciated. And by the way, did your scholarship checks bounce? I didn't think so. So, with all due respect, get off the cross.

With that said, there are definitely people - and thankfully, growing numbers of them - who are agitating for more accomplishment than you and your teammates were put in position to achieve. And who believe that more accomplishment is needed to prevent irreparable harm to Rice's overall reputation for excellence. We are at a tipping point where what we do in the next few years will determine whether, when we look back on recent/present Rice football players' careers 20 years from now, we will see them as having laid the foundation for keeping Rice excellent in all aspects, or as valiant but ultimately unavailing efforts toward same.

And so I wholeheartedly support your second paragraph's call for greater institutional support as the only thing that will truly make a difference in the long run. You get what you pay for, indeed.

(11-29-2015 07:00 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 06:58 PM)ETx Owl Wrote:  I get your hate for Bailiff Saints Owl, but you take one of the few feel good stories we had and turn it into your 99th tirade on Baliff. Did you get cut from your 7th grade team or what?

Kind of what I imagine when I read his/her posts now. Seems personal.

Agreed. In fact, I see a lot of growing personal attacks in these Bailiff threads - especially from the anti-Bailiff crowd. I also feel we're to the point where a coaching change needs to be made, but I'm really turned off at the vitriol coming from many of the anti-Bailiff guys.

I'll throw in another gripe I have. I personally know a lot of the guys who post here, but the one guy I know from my school days at Rice is Rick Gerlach. Rick is one of the nicest guys I know, and is one of our most loyal fans. In fact, if I've got to pick one person on this board who I would characterize as a decent, stand-up guy, it would be Rick. Every post I see Rick make is stated without any malice - just a guy giving his thoughts. I'm amazed that the same guys seem to always jump in and put down what he says - just because he provides a positive viewpoint about Bailiff, Hatfield, etc. It's always the same clowns, too. Give me a break. No wonder Chef Owl is bailing out.

(11-29-2015 03:32 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium, on a tv channel that no one gets, ...

FIFY

(11-29-2015 03:50 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  I got the station. Maybe upgrade your sports package?

(11-29-2015 04:03 PM)ETx Owl Wrote:  I got the station, on mid range cable. ...

Unlike many other ASN-produced games, in the SF Bay Area, the Charlotte game was on a station that does not require any sports package here (on U-Verse, at least). It was on the same station that carries the Golden State Warriors' and Oakland A's' games.

In the DFW area, it was on Dish. I watched the game in HD. I gave my tickets to somebody who was there.

I remember once, in the 70's. going to a game in Waco. My family and I were the entire Rice contingent. The other side of the stadium was not much better.

Leave it to the bellyachers to turn something beautiful into something ugly.

(11-29-2015 06:42 PM)Ranger Wrote:  I am a Stanford fan. ... Stanford has advantages we lack, but much of the differences are more illusory than real. The main difference is a difference in will, a determination to get to the top.

Three substantial non-illusory advantages that Stanford has over us are a) nine-figure-donor John Arrillaga, b) multi-million-dollar P5 conference $$ and c) a student body ~double the size of Rice's (1.78x undergrads/2.4x total), and d) great weather.

Others important factors that might be more will/determination-related include e) an apparently smooth operation with admissions office, f) relatively strong game-attending/tailgating crowds, g) huge athletic endowment, and h) a national reputation/recruiting base for high-academic athletes. (We all know about Andrew Luck; I just saw today a profile of this Flower Mound (TX) tight end/Stanford commit on the "Future Phenoms" TV show: Kaden Smith.)

I agree that at a minimum we must greatly improve those will/determination factors.

(11-29-2015 03:17 PM)AnotherOldOwl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? ...

Much has been made about the attendance at yesterday's game, well I was there so the stadium wasn't "completely empty". I would estimate the crowd at 3-5K, which is certainly not much in HRS. It was a cold, rainy day on the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend for a meaningless game between two not very good teams. To make the low attendance some kind of vote on interest in Rice football is, I believe, disingenuous.

I have a vague memory of a Rice-Baylor game in the late '60s played under the same circumstances (in Waco, I believe) that set a SWC record for low attendance (<1k?). No one suggested that game was anything other than what it was - poorly attended due to the circumstances.

We had a discussion about that miserably cold & rainy loss in Waco (1968, 7-16) in 2013:

(11-25-2013 12:14 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 11:39 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 09:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We played Baylor in Waco the Saturday after Thanksgiving in 1968. The two teams had one win between them, it was freezing rain with probably a 30 mph wind, of course students were gone, might have been 500 people there.

I was there ... with a blind date who wasn't much of a football fan. But I couldn't really blame her. It was miserable.

(I recall there being more than 500 there, however. But I can't find an official attendance figure or news report.)

I found this AP story in the December 1, 1968, issue of the Galveston Daily News, which said there were 4,000 fans ... at the beginning of the game:

(Note: I couldn't correct all the OCR errors)

Quote:Bears Rally Late to Nip Rice, 16-7

WACO. Tex. (AP) - Baylor fans left too early Saturday as listless first half to defeat winless Rice 16-7 and give coach John Bridgers a victory in his last game as head coach. Baylor tailback Gene Rogers ignited the clinching touchdown with a 74-yard run on the first play from scrimmage after the Owls had driven to the Baylor 4-yard line late in (he fourth quarter It was the third longest run in Baylor history. The victory ended Baylor's season with a 3-7 record and 3-4 in the Southwest Conference. It was the final game as head coach for Bridgers, who was fired yesterday.

A meager 4,000 fans were on hand at the beginning of the game but many of them began filtering out of the stadium in the first period as substitute tailback Butch Robinson and quarterback Robby Shelton ran almost at will through the Bears' tissue-thin defense.

The Bear defensive wall turned to stone as the second half opened. Junior tailback John Lerma grabbed the second half kickoff and raced fi7 yards to setup Haylur's first touchdown a three-yard run by Hogers. Moments later, Baylor defensive halfback Ed Marsh fell on a Shelton fumble at the Rice 35. The Bears drove to the five, where it fizzled and Bill Cozby booted a 23-yard field goal.

The field turned to a muddy slush by midway of the first quarter, the result of an all-day rain that continued throughout the game.

Robinson, not even listed in the Rice press book, picked up more yardage in the first half than he had all season. Robinson carried 38 times to set a school record and was within one carry of tying the SWC record. With Robinson and Shelton carrying the load, the Owls marched 58 yards in nine plays for their touchdown in the first quarter. Robinson accounted for 39 of those yards carrying the last five plays from scrimmage.

Shelton, a master of the option play, also did his share of ball-carrying for the Owls. Shelton and Robinson were the only runners to carry the ball for Rice in the first half.

(11-29-2015 07:02 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 03:50 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

Also, thank you for saying my teammates and I were part of a descent of a football program and what we did doesn't really matter.

By the way, I wonder why he left Rice? Oh wait, because he wasn't getting paid. He moved on to a place that would pay him for his skill. It's not that difficult of a concept. You get what you pay for. Get the school to pump money into the salaries of the coaches, then talk to me. Otherwise you'll get more of the same. Guys sticking around towards the end of their career or bright minds moving on because they can get paid better elsewhere.

Re: your first paragraph, nobody here has ever even come close to belittling the players like that, or failing to appreciate their vital and significant contributions. Was there not a "Thank you, seniors" thread for your class? This board supports student-athletes not only more than most Div. I message boards, but more than any segment of Rice itself. After all, we are, collectively, those relative few in each class over the years that supported Rice Athletics (and/or played ourselves). The percentage of support players get here outweighs anything they ever got in their commons, their classes, or in Lovett Hall. Their efforts were, are, and always have been appreciated. And by the way, did your scholarship checks bounce? I didn't think so. So, with all due respect, get off the cross.

With that said, there are definitely people - and thankfully, growing numbers of them - who are agitating for more accomplishment than you and your teammates were put in position to achieve. And who believe that more accomplishment is needed to prevent irreparable harm to Rice's overall reputation for excellence. We are at a tipping point where what we do in the next few years will determine whether, when we look back on recent/present Rice football players' careers 20 years from now, we will see them as having laid the foundation for keeping Rice excellent in all aspects, or as valiant but ultimately unavailing efforts toward same.

And so I wholeheartedly support your second paragraph's call for greater institutional support as the only thing that will truly make a difference in the long run. You get what you pay for, indeed.

I think your points certainly were salient but your "BTW did your scholarship checks bounce" was a bit snarky.

A guy on football scholarship earns his way as much as anybody on campus. Reminds me of the old saw about West Point: "a quarter-of-a-million-dollar education -- shoved up your a*s a nickel at a time...."

(11-29-2015 01:33 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Then front the money to buyout. We all know the school doesn't really care about athletics. And I'm interested to see the REALISTIC suggestions for replacement that would do any better.

I don't know that "the school doesn't really care about athletics." In my experience--and it is considerable--I'd say it has been far more a case of the athletic department not making the case for what needed to be done than of the school not caring about athletics.

I think that is changing with JK as athletic director and with a president and board who are receptive to ideas, but it was not always that way.

(11-29-2015 01:08 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  Maybe this is the real perception of the program outside of this board?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_...ame-speech

A little surprised that no one commented that this one was written by one of the Chron's former beat writers for the Owls. I had known that Sam had gotten an ESPN gig, so he definitely seemed to be writing with a bit more familiarity than your average ESPN platform blogger.

(11-29-2015 08:48 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 03:17 PM)AnotherOldOwl Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 02:58 PM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  Are you aware that yesterday a Rice football game was played in front of a completely empty stadium? ...

Much has been made about the attendance at yesterday's game, well I was there so the stadium wasn't "completely empty". I would estimate the crowd at 3-5K, which is certainly not much in HRS. It was a cold, rainy day on the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend for a meaningless game between two not very good teams. To make the low attendance some kind of vote on interest in Rice football is, I believe, disingenuous.

I have a vague memory of a Rice-Baylor game in the late '60s played under the same circumstances (in Waco, I believe) that set a SWC record for low attendance (<1k?). No one suggested that game was anything other than what it was - poorly attended due to the circumstances.

We had a discussion about that miserably cold & rainy loss in Waco (1968, 7-16) in 2013:

(11-25-2013 12:14 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 11:39 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 09:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We played Baylor in Waco the Saturday after Thanksgiving in 1968. The two teams had one win between them, it was freezing rain with probably a 30 mph wind, of course students were gone, might have been 500 people there.

I was there ... with a blind date who wasn't much of a football fan. But I couldn't really blame her. It was miserable.

(I recall there being more than 500 there, however. But I can't find an official attendance figure or news report.)

I found this AP story in the December 1, 1968, issue of the Galveston Daily News, which said there were 4,000 fans ... at the beginning of the game:

(Note: I couldn't correct all the OCR errors)

Quote:Bears Rally Late to Nip Rice, 16-7

WACO. Tex. (AP) - Baylor fans left too early Saturday as listless first half to defeat winless Rice 16-7 and give coach John Bridgers a victory in his last game as head coach. Baylor tailback Gene Rogers ignited the clinching touchdown with a 74-yard run on the first play from scrimmage after the Owls had driven to the Baylor 4-yard line late in (he fourth quarter It was the third longest run in Baylor history. The victory ended Baylor's season with a 3-7 record and 3-4 in the Southwest Conference. It was the final game as head coach for Bridgers, who was fired yesterday.

A meager 4,000 fans were on hand at the beginning of the game but many of them began filtering out of the stadium in the first period as substitute tailback Butch Robinson and quarterback Robby Shelton ran almost at will through the Bears' tissue-thin defense.

The Bear defensive wall turned to stone as the second half opened. Junior tailback John Lerma grabbed the second half kickoff and raced fi7 yards to setup Haylur's first touchdown a three-yard run by Hogers. Moments later, Baylor defensive halfback Ed Marsh fell on a Shelton fumble at the Rice 35. The Bears drove to the five, where it fizzled and Bill Cozby booted a 23-yard field goal.

The field turned to a muddy slush by midway of the first quarter, the result of an all-day rain that continued throughout the game.

Robinson, not even listed in the Rice press book, picked up more yardage in the first half than he had all season. Robinson carried 38 times to set a school record and was within one carry of tying the SWC record. With Robinson and Shelton carrying the load, the Owls marched 58 yards in nine plays for their touchdown in the first quarter. Robinson accounted for 39 of those yards carrying the last five plays from scrimmage.

Shelton, a master of the option play, also did his share of ball-carrying for the Owls. Shelton and Robinson were the only runners to carry the ball for Rice in the first half.

Mike, thanks for that. As the rain came down on the sideline before kickoff Saturday, David E. and I had an enjoyable conversation with Dr. Leland Winston about that game. That was Lee's last college football game.