Just a tip of the hat to those of you at the game today. Similar conditions in Arkansas today and very happy I'm not sitting in it.

Good crowd given the conditions. Way to be there for your team.

(11-27-2015 03:07 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just a tip of the hat to those of you at the game today. Similar conditions in Arkansas today and very happy I'm not sitting in it.

Good crowd given the conditions. Way to be there for your team.

Would be there, but in laws decided we were renting a house in the woods in Virginia for thanksgiving

Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

(11-27-2015 04:38 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

I don't think I'll ever dry out. What a waste. Repeated dumb plays by UT. Very winnable game- WMU was well coached, not sure about us. Russell' s fumble of a spinning punt killed us and then he tacks on a penalty which I didn't see and don't understand. We badly missed tackles that turned a screen pass from a two yard loss into a long TD. VERY disappointing.

(11-27-2015 04:38 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

At least it wasn't bitterly cold. I could stand the rain but I could not stand watching the poor play of the Rockets. They have gotten progressive worse as the season goes on.

Anyway mission accomplished--------NIU back into the MACC game for the 6th straight year with the help of the Rockets although it took an especially heroic effort by the Rockets to pull it off this year after Ohio dealt NIU what everyone thought was a death blow to their chances----but everyone severely underestimated the lengths to which Toledo would go to ensure the Huskies received their annual invitation to Ford Field.

(11-27-2015 05:15 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:38 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

I don't think I'll ever dry out. What a waste. Repeated dumb plays by UT. Very winnable game- WMU was well coached, not sure about us. Russell' s fumble of a spinning punt killed us and then he tacks on a penalty which I didn't see and don't understand. We badly missed tackles that turned a screen pass from a two yard loss into a long TD. VERY disappointing.

We are constantly being out coached. I don't care what anyone says. Ely stinks. And so does Candle

(11-27-2015 05:15 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:38 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

I don't think I'll ever dry out. What a waste. Repeated dumb plays by UT. Very winnable game- WMU was well coached, not sure about us. Russell' s fumble of a spinning punt killed us and then he tacks on a penalty which I didn't see and don't understand. We badly missed tackles that turned a screen pass from a two yard loss into a long TD. VERY disappointing.

Russel's targeting call was the most unusual call I experienced. First of all, I didn't see it as I was watching hunt make the kind of play his team needed to get back in the game. I never saw a flag, and it was the most delayed foul call in the history of football. I had no idea the refs can scour film looking for a penalty that has not been called. Nobody likes a bonehead play if caught or not, but this was crazy.

The screen play happened right in front if me as did several big plays. Typically, it came down to a defender being blocked choosing to stay outside either to contain the play, or just making a decision with the RB, QB, or WR making the correct direction decision going the other way without being touched until scoring or being tackled down field. Western executed enough to win. There is no excuse for the loss. Western just executed better.

(11-27-2015 10:01 PM)PTLROCK Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 05:15 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:38 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  Was there. It wasn't fun. May have been the most "incomplete" game Toledo has played all season, when what was needed was a "complete" game. Can't blame the weather, though. Western played in it too.

I don't think I'll ever dry out. What a waste. Repeated dumb plays by UT. Very winnable game- WMU was well coached, not sure about us. Russell' s fumble of a spinning punt killed us and then he tacks on a penalty which I didn't see and don't understand. We badly missed tackles that turned a screen pass from a two yard loss into a long TD. VERY disappointing.

Russel's targeting call was the most unusual call I experienced. First of all, I didn't see it as I was watching hunt make the kind of play his team needed to get back in the game. I never saw a flag, and it was the most delayed foul call in the history of football. I had no idea the refs can scour film looking for a penalty that has not been called. Nobody likes a bonehead play if caught or not, but this was crazy.

The screen play happened right in front if me as did several big plays. Typically, it came down to a defender being blocked choosing to stay outside either to contain the play, or just making a decision with the RB, QB, or WR making the correct direction decision going the other way without being touched until scoring or being tackled down field. Western executed enough to win. There is no excuse for the loss. Western just executed better.

This is what I said in a other thread, the targeting call was not called on the field. How can the refs throw a flag after reviewing the film.? I have never seen this before in a college game, and am pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to throw a flag after. I have seen a targeting call that was called on the field get reviewed and confirmed/reversed, but never have I seen a call that was not made on the field reviewed and then penalized 5 minutes later.

The penalty: I don't think anyone will dispute that it was a penalty, that said, being used to breaks not going our way (WMU), was stunned when they gave us the penalty as that truly changed the game.

My take on going to the games these days. TOO LONG. Part is the replay, but part is the mandatory NFL type commercial breaks. I used to love the ebb and flow of college football in person. Not now.

As per the replay..TOSS all the damn rules, don't review every scoring play...duh..and let each team get 3 shots a game for a replay, for any DAMN THING they want. Once those are gone, they are gone.

There was definitely no flag on the field. Just watched the DVR of the game and the announcers are saying they can call it from the booth (according to MAC officials at the game??) because of the particular viciousness of the hit. He lead with his shoulder. I watched it at least 20 times, freezing the frames and is super slow motion and did not see the head of the WMU player snap back or to the side if it was helmet to helmet. It actually looked like it moved forward. Did he need to throw the block? Not sure he knew if there would be a cutback with Hunt running, so he hit the guy. Did not need to go high to do it. No question about that.

Russell is not a dirty player. Never did anything like that in his career. Has been called for holding on blocks before, has made other bone-headed plays, but he is not a dirty player.

The ref standing right there did not think it was targeting. If there was any doubt, he should have thrown the flag and let the replay sort it out. Calling it later on seems very, very strange. They can lie and say it was called on the field, but it was not.

(11-28-2015 09:13 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  There was definitely no flag on the field. Just watched the DVR of the game and the announcers are saying they can call it from the booth (according to MAC officials at the game??) because of the particular viciousness of the hit. He lead with his shoulder. I watched it at least 20 times, freezing the frames and is super slow motion and did not see the head of the WMU player snap back or to the side if it was helmet to helmet. It actually looked like it moved forward. Did he need to throw the block? Not sure he knew if there would be a cutback with Hunt running, so he hit the guy. Did not need to go high to do it. No question about that.

Russell is not a dirty player. Never did anything like that in his career. Has been called for holding on blocks before, has made other bone-headed plays, but he is not a dirty player.

The ref standing right there did not think it was targeting. If there was any doubt, he should have thrown the flag and let the replay sort it out. Calling it later on seems very, very strange. They can lie and say it was called on the field, but it was not.

I wonder if that was the same ref who didn't call a couple obvious (to me) pass interference calls against Western (one offensive, one defensive) but did against UT? Or, was it the other ref who threw flags twice only to be "over-ruled" after "discussion"? I love the one call that resulted in a Western TD. They don't call offensive holding against the Bronco receiver because it was on the other side of the field...ummm, doesn't that mean that our player didn't have even a chance to get to the other side to make a play & stop the TD run after the catch? Isn't holding downfield still a call to make?

Officiating was pretty bad especially for a game of this magnitude. But that's been the norm for the MAC. Really strange calls this season, all on TV for the country to see (CMU cheerleaders cheering too loudly? Remember that one? C'mon...). MAC Commissioner should review the whole game in addition to Russell's hit. And no, Bronco fans, I'm not making excuses--you beat us fair & square. We made enough mistakes that you didn't need any help from the refs...but I think you fared a bit better than the Rockets did on calls/no-calls.

(11-28-2015 09:22 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 09:13 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  There was definitely no flag on the field. Just watched the DVR of the game and the announcers are saying they can call it from the booth (according to MAC officials at the game??) because of the particular viciousness of the hit. He lead with his shoulder. I watched it at least 20 times, freezing the frames and is super slow motion and did not see the head of the WMU player snap back or to the side if it was helmet to helmet. It actually looked like it moved forward. Did he need to throw the block? Not sure he knew if there would be a cutback with Hunt running, so he hit the guy. Did not need to go high to do it. No question about that.

Russell is not a dirty player. Never did anything like that in his career. Has been called for holding on blocks before, has made other bone-headed plays, but he is not a dirty player.

The ref standing right there did not think it was targeting. If there was any doubt, he should have thrown the flag and let the replay sort it out. Calling it later on seems very, very strange. They can lie and say it was called on the field, but it was not.

I wonder if that was the same ref who didn't call a couple obvious (to me) pass interference calls against Western (one offensive, one defensive) but did against UT? Or, was it the other ref who threw flags twice only to be "over-ruled" after "discussion"? I love the one call that resulted in a Western TD. They don't call offensive holding against the Bronco receiver because it was on the other side of the field...ummm, doesn't that mean that our player didn't have even a chance to get to the other side to make a play & stop the TD run after the catch? Isn't holding downfield still a call to make?

Officiating was pretty bad especially for a game of this magnitude. But that's been the norm for the MAC. Really strange calls this season, all on TV for the country to see (CMU cheerleaders cheering too loudly? Remember that one? C'mon...). MAC Commissioner should review the whole game in addition to Russell's hit. And no, Bronco fans, I'm not making excuses--you beat us fair & square. We made enough mistakes that you didn't need any help from the refs...but I think you fared a bit better than the Rockets did on calls/no-calls.

Not a big critic of officials but the pass interference no-calls perplexed me. And pissed me off.

The 4th & 1 play where Western had a DL shifting and he pretty much had his entire body on our side of the football when we snapped it. No flag of course, and we probably snapped the ball at that time specifically because a WMU player had his entire body on our side of the football, just like we did against Iowa State when there was also no flag. It's really inexcusable to miss calls like these.

(11-28-2015 09:24 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 09:22 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 09:13 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  There was definitely no flag on the field. Just watched the DVR of the game and the announcers are saying they can call it from the booth (according to MAC officials at the game??) because of the particular viciousness of the hit. He lead with his shoulder. I watched it at least 20 times, freezing the frames and is super slow motion and did not see the head of the WMU player snap back or to the side if it was helmet to helmet. It actually looked like it moved forward. Did he need to throw the block? Not sure he knew if there would be a cutback with Hunt running, so he hit the guy. Did not need to go high to do it. No question about that.

Russell is not a dirty player. Never did anything like that in his career. Has been called for holding on blocks before, has made other bone-headed plays, but he is not a dirty player.

The ref standing right there did not think it was targeting. If there was any doubt, he should have thrown the flag and let the replay sort it out. Calling it later on seems very, very strange. They can lie and say it was called on the field, but it was not.

I wonder if that was the same ref who didn't call a couple obvious (to me) pass interference calls against Western (one offensive, one defensive) but did against UT? Or, was it the other ref who threw flags twice only to be "over-ruled" after "discussion"? I love the one call that resulted in a Western TD. They don't call offensive holding against the Bronco receiver because it was on the other side of the field...ummm, doesn't that mean that our player didn't have even a chance to get to the other side to make a play & stop the TD run after the catch? Isn't holding downfield still a call to make?

Officiating was pretty bad especially for a game of this magnitude. But that's been the norm for the MAC. Really strange calls this season, all on TV for the country to see (CMU cheerleaders cheering too loudly? Remember that one? C'mon...). MAC Commissioner should review the whole game in addition to Russell's hit. And no, Bronco fans, I'm not making excuses--you beat us fair & square. We made enough mistakes that you didn't need any help from the refs...but I think you fared a bit better than the Rockets did on calls/no-calls.

Not a big critic of officials but the pass interference no-calls perplexed me. And pissed me off.

The Head Linesman who was on the press box side during the first half was awful. The PI called against Cheatham when the ball was way overthrown (not catchable) was him. He also missed a PI when a Toledo receive was held on the sidelines, defender literally turned the UT receivers body. I am not sue if he was responsible for the PI call in the EZ, when the Bronco WR changed directions. I thought all three of those calls were pretty poor, and I know for sure the first 2 were blown by the Head Linesman.

(11-28-2015 09:24 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 09:22 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 09:13 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  There was definitely no flag on the field. Just watched the DVR of the game and the announcers are saying they can call it from the booth (according to MAC officials at the game??) because of the particular viciousness of the hit. He lead with his shoulder. I watched it at least 20 times, freezing the frames and is super slow motion and did not see the head of the WMU player snap back or to the side if it was helmet to helmet. It actually looked like it moved forward. Did he need to throw the block? Not sure he knew if there would be a cutback with Hunt running, so he hit the guy. Did not need to go high to do it. No question about that.

Russell is not a dirty player. Never did anything like that in his career. Has been called for holding on blocks before, has made other bone-headed plays, but he is not a dirty player.

The ref standing right there did not think it was targeting. If there was any doubt, he should have thrown the flag and let the replay sort it out. Calling it later on seems very, very strange. They can lie and say it was called on the field, but it was not.

I wonder if that was the same ref who didn't call a couple obvious (to me) pass interference calls against Western (one offensive, one defensive) but did against UT? Or, was it the other ref who threw flags twice only to be "over-ruled" after "discussion"? I love the one call that resulted in a Western TD. They don't call offensive holding against the Bronco receiver because it was on the other side of the field...ummm, doesn't that mean that our player didn't have even a chance to get to the other side to make a play & stop the TD run after the catch? Isn't holding downfield still a call to make?

Officiating was pretty bad especially for a game of this magnitude. But that's been the norm for the MAC. Really strange calls this season, all on TV for the country to see (CMU cheerleaders cheering too loudly? Remember that one? C'mon...). MAC Commissioner should review the whole game in addition to Russell's hit. And no, Bronco fans, I'm not making excuses--you beat us fair & square. We made enough mistakes that you didn't need any help from the refs...but I think you fared a bit better than the Rockets did on calls/no-calls.

Not a big critic of officials but the pass interference no-calls perplexed me. And pissed me off.

I'm glad you said it since I have been a huge complainer about the officiating all year - in our own freaking stadium. It was the stout black guy that missed the calls early in the game, then threw a couple of make up calls late in the game (two in a row) that were no where near as obvious as the ones he did not call. Also missed an offensive PI on Davis for pushing Norrills on what likely would have been an interception. Norrills went ballistic - but only for a short time as that is not his style. He kept his composure, but he knew he had that interception.

The WMU OL was holding all night.