The guy might be a better HC than OC, not my call. He obviously has good rapport with players. Might be a good organizer. I don't know what part he has in player development but I think that's been a strong point of the individual development if team development doesn't seem to be quite there on offense. But I haven't seen anything in his development as an OC that would tell me he's ready for a program this big. There are too many others that are ready.

If Coach Campbell goes, obviously a role could be found for Coach Candle but I'm thinking in both best interests if he step back a bit. Probably still be a higher salary or maybe he will be better able to put together his vision in the new place. Wouldn't wish ill on either, regardless MY measure of success or lack of success.

Candle seems a class guy to be able to be part of a staff that both gets players here and gets them through graduation while retaining the loyalty of his head coach.

I've had work colleagues from around the country just plain approach me as a Toledo fan mentioning Coach Campbell is a hot commodity. He has created more depth and skill than any prior Toledo coach I am aware of, and he prioritized integrity. The kids really respond to him and his staff. You can see why his resume would be appealing if you consider other schools as they see their program spiraling in the other direction.

It is a big risk to leave as witnessed by what happened to coach Beckman, but I truly believe coach Campbell is his own man and not as dependent on other coaching ties like coach Beckman seemed to be. That makes me believe he has what it takes to be effective elsewhere. Other fan bases are even crazier than ours. When the fan base ego is based on the success of the team, there is little patience. Pinkel went to a privileged 5 conference, but not to a team that was used to competing for titles.

You can make as much as a general surgeon coaching at a school like Toledo where the cost of living is very reasonable. You can coach a long time and make a great living in that scenario. Unfortunately, making the move results in a lottery win. It could all be over swiftly. Ask Dan Hawkins, coach Beckman, etc...

(11-27-2015 05:02 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:09 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:03 PM)TampaRocket Wrote:  Hope they didn't watch the NIU or WMU game...otherwise, we're stuck with "The Process" of not being able to win the games that count.

Campbell didn't cost Toledo the game. 2 bonehead mistakes that cost scores and momentum did. With everything else UT would have been able to win.

Yes he did. Buck stops...

and his was hardly a clean game. The number of early drives stopped by incomplete passes and if not for a tremendous reach behind by Russell, a scoring drive would never have gotten there. The obvious need for a defensive time-out, not taken just before the long td run after pass in Q1. Sideline check after sideline check followed by an unproductive play.


Recruiting is strong. The players do not get in trouble off the field. Individual players' skills seem to develop, these are his strong points. Calling the in-game, having his team organized and prepared and emotionally ready do not seem to be.

Knowing his team strengths or using them doesn't seem to be a strong point. Why that is can only be speculated but I don't believe it's any coincidence that they switched to a more run first the last few games AFTER the predominance of the message board realized we're operating with the least skilled passer UT's had in over a decade.

I agree with everything you said about the team and coaching until the end. If you think coaches pay any attention to us ("the internet DBs" is one so their expressions), you're dreaming. In the case of the football coaches, maybe they should, but they don't.

A smart AD will pick Babers or even Fleck ahead of Campbell. Both have stronger personalities and can motivate their teams. Campbell had no "gadget" plays up his sleeve for the biggest game of his career. He had a 5th year senior playing as if he had money on WMU. BGSU would beat out butts if we played then next week.

Babers is more traveled. He has experience picking up in a new recruiting/fan base geography. Fleck had NOTHING to lose in yesterday's game so maybe they came off better than they are, we weren't prepared for them pulling out all the stops as we weren't against CMU.

Kudos, they came out ready to play but they also were in position to take risks early. I do think we should have gone for that 4th down early in the game but position ball is the more reasoned approach. It worked, they put WMU deep but WMU made the plays.

Fleck is flashy in the Carroll/Dabo sense and that plays now. Not sure he's really got good sense about it or is even a better in-game candidate than Coach Campbell, this was his FIRST signature win. He may not be to taste for MOST alumni supporters a generally conservative group. Most are not "just win baby."

One thing to remember is that it took Pinkel a long time to build the dominant team in the MAC (excluding the well payed Marshall team that continued to play fast and loose with the rules after being allowed back into the MAC) Great team in '95, great running back and consistent QB. Strong OL. After that, we struggled to win the big games as well. Lost to Ball St when were #18 in the country, limped to the MACC and got beat there. '99 season - built the basis for the strong teams over the next five years by putting in a soph. QB (Bolden)to finish the season. Trounced West division champ WMU in season finale. Then came 2000 when we got tripped up by WMU and had no league championship and no bowl - despite a 10-1 season and smoking the league champ 42-0 during the season. 2001 - strong team, MAC champs. 2002 - strong team, got screwed in MACC. 2003 - Big Ben's year. 2004 league champs. Pinkel set the table and Amstutz hired the right OC. Then came the free fall from which we have not recovered.

I see Campbell with potential, but he is nowhere near as accomplished of a coach as Pinkel was when he moved on to cash in at a major program. He needs to win championships and show he can do it year in and year out. Then, by the time he is 40, he will be ready. Not now. Certainly not now. Can't blame him if he wants to cash his chips in early and take the money. But, it could be a shorter run by far.

(11-27-2015 04:36 PM)Rocketand2nuts Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:22 PM)Rocket04 Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:09 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 04:03 PM)TampaRocket Wrote:  Hope they didn't watch the NIU or WMU game...otherwise, we're stuck with "The Process" of not being able to win the games that count.

Campbell didn't cost Toledo the game. 2 bonehead mistakes that cost scores and momentum did. With everything else UT would have been able to win.

+1000 Campbell is a much better coach than Beckman and Amstutz. If it wasn't for Gradkowski being a stud QB, the drought would be a lot longer than 11 years. Our QB's have been average since then. If Ely is granted a 6th year then Woodside should transfer because I believe Woodside is getting the shaft for the special Alabama transfer and should have been the starter all year.

Gradkowski will be coaching us some day

Looking for some coaching changes after this season, mainly OC and possibly DC. The WMU game is a replay of the NIU game, Bad play calling on the offense and a non pressure dfense. The defense that showed up yesterday was NOT the defense that played against CMU & BG. Again, it looked like we played not to lose. SORRY, SORRY for a team who came into November, undefeated and LOST both of their home games.

Campbell isn't going anywhere. His record in November, when games count the most, isn't good enough to get him a P5 job right now. And Babers, Carey and maybe even Fleck will be stingy competition for any AAC jobs that open, unless the opening is unwanted like Tulane. I suppose Campbell could go to a P5 as an OC if one of those leaves to become a head coach (maybe he'll end up at Ohio State)? Maybe eventually he will learn enough to get us over the hump but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Bigger question is does Candle keep his job? Seems to me that we could have recruited a 3rd place team without him so I'm willing to risk losing his recruiting prowess.

A win-win would be a smaller FBS or an FCS HC for Candle and we keep Campbell. Meyer, Saban, Pinkel all of them had already started their coaching tree before leaving the MAC. Campbell should start seeing to the same.

Coach Campbell will need to see how he does out of his comfort zone, without those he came with from MU. If he's going to move up, he will have to be able to deal with recruiting a new staff, new player recruiting grounds, the whole thing. Pinkel had much deeper contacts to make a switch that was bigger even than the one Urban Meyer made. Campbell have those connections? Probably not.

Coach Candle has skills. He's just stuck on running a particular offense when he doesn't have the personnel to pull it off. It glares because he does have, helped recruit and develop personnel with the skills to pull off a tremendous offense, just not the one he seems stuck on running.