Looking at Charlotte's record against similarly ranked teams, that seems generous.

@ FAU: lost 7-17
@ ODU: lost 31-34
v UTSA: lost 27-30 (OT)

Rice is the classic falling knife in the stock market. Definitely below it's moving average. Not sure I trust the ranking right now.

(11-23-2015 05:03 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I don't believe I have ever made snyde (?) remarks about Bailiff or personally attacked him. However, that doesn't change my view that I've had since 2009 that he's a sub-par in-game coach who is incapable of changing his stripes, trying new approaches and taking us to the next level.

Wanting to help out here. It's snide.

My irony-meter is also pegged off scale.

(11-23-2015 05:43 PM)owl95 Wrote:  [quote='Afflicted' pid='12691087' dateline='1448317992']
waltgreenburg, the reasons you give for wanting Bailiff gone aren't good enough reasons to fire a coach at Rice. Yes, we beat bad teams all the time. No, Bailiff won't get us to the next level, but is that so criminal? What coach at Rice has ever been able to do that? No one. I've heard it stated here many times that Rice is a "unique place." I agree. As far as football is concerned, Rice doesn't care what anyone else thinks about it's program. It wants to graduate players and be competitive. Winning seasons and bowl games are gravy. It's how Rice "thinks." I don't see anything changing that.

Afflicted, in today's landscape, yes it is. It's just as criminal as Rice not having decent student facilities until the wellness center was built, or not upgrading our AD operations until this administration, or not upgrading the services offered by CCD(Center for Career Development) until recently. This is the 21st century and Rice needs to run all of its departments like the first class university that it is or it risks getting left behind by its peers. That includes fielding a credible football team.
[/quote

Rice is running it's football program like a first class university, so much so that 95 percent of it's players graduate within 5 years of stepping on campus. Bailiff is doing what he was hired to do, and it's the reason he'll be back. He graduates his players and he goes to bowl games. Nobody in administration cares about who he beat to get there. He does his job.

Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

Again, as described by Afflicted- Bailiff is a perfect fit for Rice if we move to Division 3

For the rest of us who hold higher standards, it's not enough.

(11-23-2015 11:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

And again, still unclear as to why Division 3 is abhorred so much. That was more the main point of the post, instead lets focus on one part of the closing paragraph. the point is, if Rice Football is just for you and the handful of people who are fine with whatever and relevance and good University exposure be damned, that's a pretty spoiled attitude; especially when consuming millions of dollars of someone else's money. Thankfully, Karlgaard, Tanner etc. understand that this strategy isn't viable and actually trying to build a fan base that ISN'T primaily older alums and former players is vital to the future of the program.
[/quote]

Maybe I can help answer that? Division 3 is a low quality product. I'm sure there are some great guys that play, but there is a reason they are in Division 3. I know myself and many of my teammates at Rice had the opportunity to play at other Division I FBS schools. Some were "better" at football than Rice. I don't know of any Division 3 player that had offers to a Division 1 FBS but CHOSE the Division 3 school, for any reason.

I care about the perception of Rice. I HATE when we lose, especially big. Everyone at my law school knows I went to Rice and played football (probably because 2/3 of my wardrobe has "RICE FOOTBALL" on it). So when things like the debacle against USM happen, it's embarrassing and honestly inexcusable. Do I want us to beat everyone on the schedule? Yes. If we are playing the likes of Baylor, UT, A&M do I want us to at least be competitive within 2-3 scores at the end of the game? Yes. That was my experience at Rice my senior year, except for the Liberty Bowl where I will admit we were extremely outmatched by Mississippi State in pretty much every facet of the game. However, I do think with the proper planning we can continue an upward trajectory (combining the successes of the previous 3 years). There are speed bumps on the road to success. I'm really interested to see what happens this off-season and for next season. That will tell a lot about the direction of the program. (Side note: I think in our CUSA Championship season we finished in the top half of FBS but all I could find was #48 by USA Today.)

I'm not happy with where we are this year. Extremely under-performing, which I think is due to a large combination of factors. Ultimately, and I think Bailiff himself would say this, blame is his because he is the head coach. But taking a step back I cannot personally blame him for every play call or situation going badly, considering I have experienced his coaching style first hand. Think about it like a corporation, yeah he's the executive but there are a lot of moving parts to it.

To those who are implying the wins against bottom half teams don't really matter, what about Toledo, Houston, or Memphis this year? They don't exactly have powerhouses on their schedules yet they clawed their way into the Top 25. Yes, I know two of them had pretty big upsets against SEC teams but without the what? 5 turnovers at UT? we would have had an upset against them. Additionally, they beat pretty much everyone they were supposed to, but everyone they were supposed to was probably in the bottom half. No one cared they were beating teams in the bottom half, just that they won. Which is what we need to do.

More support from the University would be nice. But I don't think there has been a storied history of that, considering I remember stories about how it was going to shut down the athletic department in general. Hopefully, that talk is long dead even after an unfortunate season, but I don't think this season helps garner support from the administration.

Let's get the last W this year. I hope it's a big W to send out the seniors with the win (many are my friends) and to build off of going into the off-season.

(11-23-2015 08:37 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The total cost (tuition, room and board) for Rice in 2015-16 is $55,903.

If only the university could do something for full scholarship athletes.

How many of the other students have to do squats at 5:45 in the morning and run the stadium but still be expected to have a respectable GPA? Maybe you're right. We don't earn that scholarship nor deserve more at all.

Look at what many other schools are doing for their athletes by covering cost of attendance. Which is what is needed in a city like Houston. The monthly stipends have gotten a little better from my understanding, but other schools (SMU, Houston) get more. At least they did a couple of years ago. SMU got something like $600 more a month than we did. (This is for off-campus living, where we don't get full meals paid for and obviously have to pay our rent, utilities, etc.)

(11-23-2015 11:06 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Again, as described by Afflicted- Bailiff is a perfect fit for Rice if we move to Division 3

For the rest of us who hold higher standards, it's not enough.

I can't imagine Rice holding the football program to any higher a standard than it does right now. Players graduate, we don't cheat, and the team usually goes to bowl games. Not many programs around the nation can say that. Rice can.

(11-23-2015 11:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

I don't disagree with you at all but under that point someone needs tell the University to start making a REAL investment in the product that directly affects it's value.

The EZF is a start but it's not even close to good enough. Ask women's soccer or men's and women's track & field.

I didn't mean for that post to come off as complacent, I meant for it to convey a message of "we need to worry about Rice FIRST before we worry about how America feels about Rice".

(11-23-2015 11:29 PM)Holder_Owl_84 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

I don't disagree with you at all but under that point someone needs tell the University to start making a REAL investment in the product that directly affects it's value.

The EZF is a start but it's not even close to good enough. Ask women's soccer or men's and women's track & field.

I didn't mean for that post to come off as complacent, I meant for it to convey a message of "we need to worry about Rice FIRST before we worry about how America feels about Rice".

MAKE RICE GREAT AGAIN

(11-23-2015 11:18 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 08:37 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The total cost (tuition, room and board) for Rice in 2015-16 is $55,903.

If only the university could do something for full scholarship athletes.

How many of the other students have to do squats at 5:45 in the morning and run the stadium but still be expected to have a respectable GPA? Maybe you're right. We don't earn that scholarship nor deserve more at all.

Look at what many other schools are doing for their athletes by covering cost of attendance. Which is what is needed in a city like Houston. The monthly stipends have gotten a little better from my understanding, but other schools (SMU, Houston) get more. At least they did a couple of years ago. SMU got something like $600 more a month than we did. (This is for off-campus living, where we don't get full meals paid for and obviously have to pay our rent, utilities, etc.)

I think the point is, most people don't do squats at 5:45 AM, and are therefore not compensated with a full scholarship. Approximately 40% of the student body pays that 55k a year to Rice.

(11-24-2015 12:19 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:18 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 08:37 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The total cost (tuition, room and board) for Rice in 2015-16 is $55,903.

If only the university could do something for full scholarship athletes.

How many of the other students have to do squats at 5:45 in the morning and run the stadium but still be expected to have a respectable GPA? Maybe you're right. We don't earn that scholarship nor deserve more at all.

Look at what many other schools are doing for their athletes by covering cost of attendance. Which is what is needed in a city like Houston. The monthly stipends have gotten a little better from my understanding, but other schools (SMU, Houston) get more. At least they did a couple of years ago. SMU got something like $600 more a month than we did. (This is for off-campus living, where we don't get full meals paid for and obviously have to pay our rent, utilities, etc.)

I think the point is, most people don't do squats at 5:45 AM, and are therefore not compensated with a full scholarship. Approximately 40% of the student body pays that 55k a year to Rice.

I took the original comment as saying scholarship athletes are getting a windfall. It's not like we get it for free.

I am embarrassed how this thread, like so many others, has been hijacked. The OP decried the tone of the discussions and the inevitable monotony of the arguments. Some of us then stepped up and defended the posters of various viewpoints. Then what happens? Adherents to both sides can't help themselves by ringing up the same points covered in literally dozens of other threads going back over the last 9 years. Folks on the other side are referred to as spoiled, arrogant or complacent.

Dr. K will soon be deciding DB's fate for next year. I believe he is smart enough and informed enough to consider all, and I do mean all, of the points on both sides of the issue. Some folks are sure to be unhappy but either way, we will all still be Rice alums, fans and Parliamentarians. Why don't we try a little civility - at least in this thread?

(11-23-2015 11:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

Precisely. Couldn't have said it better myself (and I've tried on numerous occasions.

(11-24-2015 12:19 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:18 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 08:37 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The total cost (tuition, room and board) for Rice in 2015-16 is $55,903.

If only the university could do something for full scholarship athletes.

How many of the other students have to do squats at 5:45 in the morning and run the stadium but still be expected to have a respectable GPA? Maybe you're right. We don't earn that scholarship nor deserve more at all.

Look at what many other schools are doing for their athletes by covering cost of attendance. Which is what is needed in a city like Houston. The monthly stipends have gotten a little better from my understanding, but other schools (SMU, Houston) get more. At least they did a couple of years ago. SMU got something like $600 more a month than we did. (This is for off-campus living, where we don't get full meals paid for and obviously have to pay our rent, utilities, etc.)

I think the point is, most people don't do squats at 5:45 AM, and are therefore not compensated with a full scholarship. Approximately 40% of the student body pays that 55k a year to Rice.

I've always looked at scholarship athletes as students who were working their way through college with a full time job.

(11-23-2015 03:19 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 02:34 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 01:16 PM)Holder_Owl_84 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 12:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:39 AM)Holder_Owl_84 Wrote:  2) Hindsight is always 20/20. I am sure that if in 2007 "those of you" also predicted a conference championship, 12+ player in the NFL, and 3 straight bowls before a very disappointing 2015 campaign, 99% of the Parliament would have been more than excited to see that happen.

I guess I am one of the 1% who set our aspirations a lot higher. Thankfully our AD, Karlgaard and those working for him seem to be in the same group.

As I have said before, your attitude is an anathema to the mission of the University. Have no interest in meeting you. Pretty much everyone else, they are welcome to shake my hand with whatever grin they see fit.

So you mean to tell me that if in 2007 you would have gotten a note left on your front door saying
"Over the next 8 seasons Rice Football will:
1. Have an All-American WR
2. Win its first bowl games since 1961
3. Have an All-American Punter
4. Beat Purdue
5. Beat Kansas twice
6. Have a kicker that leads the nation in 50+ yard kicks made by 5+ FGs
7. Rally from 1-5 to a bowl victory over a United States Military Academy
8. Win the C-USA Championship on your home turf
9. Get Top 25 votes following that CUSA Championship game
10. Go to 3 consecutive bowls
11. Win 2/3 bowls
12. Put 14+ players onto NFL rosters"

You would have said "No thanks, I expect more from a program that has hovered in Mediocre Land for the better part of 50 years."

Members of the Parliament, am I the only one that thinks that is completely delusional?

Ant, like you, I want more for Rice. I want 50,000 butts in HRS, I want ESPN, I want P5 invites, I want top 25, I want signature wins, I want 12-0. I want ALL OF THOSE THINGS for Rice. However, I am not so quick to forget where this program was 15 years ago, where it was 10 years ago, where it was 3 years ago, hell where it was 11 months ago in Hawaii. I am also not one to say cancel the program, "it's an embarrassment to the University" because they had a year that many of us feel like is just a bad dream. I admire your aspirations, Ant, I really do, but be honest with yourself here. Aspirations are only as high as they are because of what Rice Football has accomplished since 2007 which makes years like 2015 hurt that much more.

Holder, if you are indeed a current member of the team, which some of your posts allude to...I think I should respectfully say this is not a place you should be frequenting or concerning yourself with.

Your points are valid, your perspective is needed around here. If I misread that and you're an alum and not a current member I apologize and carry on. But if you're in uniform, you're going to do more harm than good for yourself, your teammates, coaches and the tone on these posts by participating in these conversations until you walk back the Sallyport.

Just my thoughts. Let's get a win this weekend because that's the root of the unhappiness as it is.

What if you never walked either way through the Sallyport but still have a degree? hahaha

Holder and myself are recent football alums. Seemingly the only ones who have joined in the last couple years. Or at least the only ones that post. I know some read.

And the players definitely read this stuff. At least some of them do. They know this is where fans post and want to know what the fan base is saying. Which is probably why me and Holder try to be more positive about things. Although everyone involved knows this season was a disappointment.

They don't post because they don't want to throw anyone under the bus. They rather move on. Good for you that you defend your coach but please respect the fact that not everyone drank the Kook Aid and based on facts Bailiff needs to be fired. Anywhere else he would have been gone. For sure the OC and DC would have been fired by now. Time for new blood. Just like it was time for someone else to hold for the kicker, it's time for someone else to lead.

People who want Bailiff fired = cool calm unbiased dispassionate thinkers relying on facts.

All others = Kool-aid drinkers.

Back to square one.

(11-23-2015 11:32 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:29 PM)Holder_Owl_84 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 11:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Actually, everyone who wears a Rice ring should give several $@#% about the national relevance and perception of the football program. It directly affects the value of the Rice name on that ring and the degree behind it.

I'm glad there seem to be a growing number around here who grasp not only that there's a connection between our athletic and academic associations, endeavors, and reputations, but that there's some real urgency to shoring up our positions in both arenas. We collectively were complacent for far too long, and if the passion to pursue the same sort of excellence in athletics as we do in academics - both in terms of the schools we associate with as well as our results in competition against them - makes some uncomfortable, I frankly think that's good.

I don't disagree with you at all but under that point someone needs tell the University to start making a REAL investment in the product that directly affects it's value.

The EZF is a start but it's not even close to good enough. Ask women's soccer or men's and women's track & field.

I didn't mean for that post to come off as complacent, I meant for it to convey a message of "we need to worry about Rice FIRST before we worry about how America feels about Rice".

MAKE RICE GREAT AGAIN

I know a guy who can get you that hat for $15...

Just looking at the "I Root For" section of my signature. Of the three teams listed, Rice is 4-7, Chelsea is 4-7-2, and Bath is 2-2. My football teams are not having a great year, regardless of code.