(11-28-2015 02:12 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 01:44 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 12:04 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  wish you the best Steve, best of luck.

Indeed.

The MAC is the 'cradle of FBS newbies.' :)

I think the Sun Belt has that on Lockdown :)

Along with CUSA

Hesitated on posting this link since we are now gone but here is the Thanking MAC thread on UMassHoops.

Thank You MAC

(11-29-2015 11:29 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Hesitated on posting this link since we are now gone but here is the Thanking MAC thread on UMassHoops.

Thank You MAC

Seems like UMass really appreciated the opportunity, respect that. Too bad Temple was quick to bolt (despite not proving, at the time, they were ready). That really thwarted something that could have been special in both football and basketball for a non P5 league. If Temple and UMass could've joined full time, the MAC would have easily been the front runner for the Access Bowl in most years. In hoops, it is at least a two (maybe three) bid league, with at least UMass, having a better shot at making the tourney than you do in the A10. Temple is probably moot... Would still make it most years. Plus, the TV contract would've jumped up by adding both Philly and Boston along with Cleveland/Buffalo/Cincy/Detroit/Chicago/Indy. That's three of the top 6 and 5 of the top 16 (and a bunch of top 50s).

It is what it is, but both Temple and UMass gave up on the basis of lack of cultural fit too quick. With both in the league, along with Buffalo and even Akron and Kent State, five of the 14 teams would have a "New England/Eastern" culture. While Akron/Kent is in "Midwestern Ohio", Northeast Ohio was part of the Connecticut Western Reserve, and historically, NEO has been the region of Ohio that leans more toward the East than to the Midwest.

A MAC East of:
1. Temple
2. UMass
3. Akron
4. Kent
5. Buffalo
6. Ohio
7. Miami

And the West of:
1. Toledo
2. Bowling Green
3. Eastern Michigan
4. Central Michigan
5. Western Michigan
6. Ball State
7. Northern Illinois ...

Would've been high quality, and one that had cultural fits. The entire West is Midwestern. Even in the East, it would've been a fit. Ohio looks at itself as a flagship (like UMass and Buffalo). Miami looks at itself as a public Ivy (would relate to being in with Eastern schools). Akron/Kent are in areas that overall lean more eastern than Midwest.

Too bad it didn't work out.

(11-30-2015 03:02 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  It is what it is, but both Temple and UMass gave up on the basis of lack of cultural fit too quick. With both in the league, along with Buffalo and even Akron and Kent State, five of the 14 teams would have a "New England/Eastern" culture. While Akron/Kent is in "Midwestern Ohio", Northeast Ohio was part of the Connecticut Western Reserve, and historically, NEO has been the region of Ohio that leans more toward the East than to the Midwest.

Would've been high quality, and one that had cultural fits. The entire West is Midwestern. Even in the East, it would've been a fit. Ohio looks at itself as a flagship (like UMass and Buffalo). Miami looks at itself as a public Ivy (would relate to being in with Eastern schools). Akron/Kent are in areas that overall lean more eastern than Midwest.

When the Big East came calling, there was no way Temple wasn't going to go...

Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

No.

Didn't know we were so hated

(11-30-2015 12:19 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  Didn't know we were so hated

I do not think that anyone hated UMASS.
However, most did not see any benefit of having UMASS in the conference. Being a perennial bottom 10 member, they only lowered the overall image of the conference while reducing the share of the pie. UMASS had a lot of promise, but it never came to fruition.

They only had one thing to offer and that was Basketball. If they were only willing to make that contribution then the MAC could have helped them to grow in Football. There administration did not think that that was a good trade, so we are parting ways.

It is going to get very hard from here, but I do wish you good luck. I will be rooting for you as a former conference mate.

Agree with westernwilly here.....I have absolutely no animousity towards UMASS, but they ended up "residing" in the MAC in football for a few years but the net impact was pretty much zilch, and since UMASS was so bad in football it certainly didn't enhance the image of the conference. The "jewel" would've been getting UMASS to bring hoops to the MAC...didn't happen and I get why UMASS was reluctant based on long-standing A10 rivalries and recruiting, but that's when the "honeymoon" ended and it was time for both parties to move along.

It just wasn't meant to be. We didn't want their football, and UMass didn't want our basketball. How would they raise the children?

Here's a list of all of the FBS team that have transitioned to FBS with UMass or since. Transition years are not included in records-

17-6(14-1) Ga Southern (SBC)
16-7(12-3) App State (SBC)
22-26(15-15) UTSA (CUSA)
11-13(7-9) Old Dominion (CUSA)
12-22(0-8) Charlotte (CUSA)
20-27(11-17) Texas State (SBC)
19-30(13-17) South Alabama (SBC)
6-29(4-18) Ga State (SBC)
8-40(7-25) UMass (MAC)

Not uncommon to struggle during the transition although a few programs found immediate success. Unfortunately for UMass the MAC did not offer other fresh FCS call ups in conference play like CUSA and the SBC that had multiple call ups.

(11-30-2015 02:08 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 12:19 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  Didn't know we were so hated

I do not think that anyone hated UMASS.

However, most did not see any benefit of having UMASS in the conference.

I would have seen some small benefit if both Temple and UMass had been in ... that's eight OOC bball games spread around 12 full time members, so basically either Temple or UMass at home once every three years.

But without the pair, as originally planned when UMass was invited, it didn't really work.

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

"The NE" is awfully vague for that kind of statement ... is Buffalo "northeastern"? is Pittsburgh?

To the extent that there are common currents between the Cleveland area and parts of the country to its east, it seems to me its more with upstate NY and Philly/NJ than with New England ... and being part of the old Connecticut Western Reserve a couple of centuries back has very little to do with it, compared to being the home of growing heavy industry in the late 1800's when a wave of immigration was coming in from Europe.

And, from living in a town of 6,000 with between 6 and 10 places to buy pizza, the pizza owes more to Chicago style than to East Coast style.

(12-01-2015 04:10 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

"The NE" is awfully vague for that kind of statement ... is Buffalo "northeastern"? is Pittsburgh?

I think more of Great Lakes. That is Buffalo/Cleveland/Toledo/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Gary/Chicago/Milwaukee are all big industrial places. Get off the Great Lakes in NY/Penn, you start to get NE. Get off the Great Lakes in Illinois/Indiana, you've got full blown farming Midwest.

(12-01-2015 06:03 PM)bopol Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 04:10 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

"The NE" is awfully vague for that kind of statement ... is Buffalo "northeastern"? is Pittsburgh?

I think more of Great Lakes. That is Buffalo/Cleveland/Toledo/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Gary/Chicago/Milwaukee are all big industrial places. Get off the Great Lakes in NY/Penn, you start to get NE. Get off the Great Lakes in Illinois/Indiana, you've got full blown farming Midwest.

Yes ... and there are a lot more similarities between the urban Great Lakes and the urban Mid-Atlantic than between the urban Great Lakes and New England, no matter that there was once, over two hundred years ago, a connection between NE Ohio and Connecticut.

(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 06:03 PM)bopol Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 04:10 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

"The NE" is awfully vague for that kind of statement ... is Buffalo "northeastern"? is Pittsburgh?

I think more of Great Lakes. That is Buffalo/Cleveland/Toledo/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Gary/Chicago/Milwaukee are all big industrial places. Get off the Great Lakes in NY/Penn, you start to get NE. Get off the Great Lakes in Illinois/Indiana, you've got full blown farming Midwest.

Yes ... and there are a lot more similarities between the urban Great Lakes and the urban Mid-Atlantic than between the urban Great Lakes and New England, no matter that there was once, over two hundred years ago, a connection between NE Ohio and Connecticut.

This just occurred to me, most of the MAC is more Great Lakes than Midwestern. BSU, Ou and MU are the exception.

(12-01-2015 09:09 PM)westernwilly Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 06:03 PM)bopol Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 04:10 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:57 AM)wleakr Wrote:  Do folks in the Cleveland are (Kent/Akron) really identify with NE? Doesn't appear that way to me when I visit...

"The NE" is awfully vague for that kind of statement ... is Buffalo "northeastern"? is Pittsburgh?

I think more of Great Lakes. That is Buffalo/Cleveland/Toledo/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Gary/Chicago/Milwaukee are all big industrial places. Get off the Great Lakes in NY/Penn, you start to get NE. Get off the Great Lakes in Illinois/Indiana, you've got full blown farming Midwest.

Yes ... and there are a lot more similarities between the urban Great Lakes and the urban Mid-Atlantic than between the urban Great Lakes and New England, no matter that there was once, over two hundred years ago, a connection between NE Ohio and Connecticut.

This just occurred to me, most of the MAC is more Great Lakes than Midwestern. BSU, Ou and MU are the exception.

I agree that Cleveland/NEO is more industrial Great Lakes than anything. But the industrial Great Lakes isn't stereotypical Midwestern like a lot of people from the Northeast to Mid Atlantic portray it as. NEO, specifically, has more connection to the NE or Mid Atlantic than it does the " Heartland".

So no, it isn't a New England/Northeast/East Coast/Mid Atlantic type area. But it isn't Midwest either. Cleveland is the bridge between NE/East Coast and Midwest. Just like Pittsburgh is a bridge city between East Coast/Mid Atlantic to Appalachia.

It doesn't really matter at this point, I was just throwing it out there that if both Temple and UMass would've stuck around full-time, they wouldn't have been the cultural outliers as many of their fans would've thought.

Like wleakr said, the MAC is actually a Great Lakes dominated league. And the Great Lakes area of the Midwest, overall, is culturally closer to being East coast than rural Midwest. Cleveland (Akron/Kent) and Buffalo/Rochester are just the cities, geographically, that are the most northeast of the Great Lakes region.

Moving it forward, its why if the MAC ever does expand, my opinion as somebody who lives in Northeast Ohio, would be to go East. But I'm sure others would say to look in the Midwest.

I have been pro Akron leaving the MAC if the chance came, even to CUSA. Though that stance has softened to the point where maybe I'd reconsider (the Akron/Kent duplication is the only reason while I'm still on the fence). But seeing some of the strides the MAC is making, I do think it could make a jump to being the best G5 league with a couple solid additions. Personally, Temple and UMass would've been it.

Neither are happening, so the league, IMO, needs to figure out who's next. Get two solid schools to get to 14 and continue to expand its reach. And if UMass reconsiders and wants in full time, I'd take them back.

BTW, I will say this. In the new era of conference realignment, there is now way the MAC shoud've taken in Akron in the early 90s. But that was a different era. And now, even with the Akron/Kent duplication, no way the league could voluntarily lose either... They have been the two best overall athletic department's in the league for the past decade now. And booting EMU also seems popular, until you look at the success it has had other than football (right now the third best overall AD going by Director's Cup). But with the MAC being Ohio/Michigan dominated is , IMO, more reason why the MAC can't settle at 12 and be satisfied. It has to expand its reach. Proximity is a plus, but since this league is so compact, it can easily add a couple more schools and not water down the product, and if they are in big markets, it won't be a net financial loss for existing members.

I do not believe any presidents or AD's think we should be expanding. Financial splits would only get smaller. It would not likely increase our NCAA bids. 14 teams for one NCAA basketball teams is even worse than 12 teams for 1 bid.

I'd prefer a 10 team league. 9 game conference schedule for football, everyone plays everyone, no need for champ game. In bball 18 game conf schedule, everyone plays everyone twice.

(12-02-2015 10:22 PM)DICK Wrote:  I do not believe any presidents or AD's think we should be expanding. Financial splits would only get smaller. It would not likely increase our NCAA bids. 14 teams for one NCAA basketball teams is even worse than 12 teams for 1 bid.

I reckon the MAC expands when somebody talks to the MAC about joining, the MAC talks to ESPN about whether they would pay extra for that school to join, and ESPN says yes, they would gladly boost the MAC payout a substantial amount if that school joined.

Which is certainly somewhere shy of 5% odds, may well be shy of 1%, so I don't worry about it happening.