(11-24-2015 10:49 AM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:17 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 04:06 PM)Ubish Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 12:24 PM)HuskieFanatic Wrote:  PJ may be quirky, but he has done a good job making WMU relevant. As long as he is the coach of WMU, they will be contenders in the West.

We didn't hire him to be contenders, Cubit had us as contenders, we hired him to WIN. That is something he has not yet done. Next year better be the year, or I think the players will start to doubt the rhetoric. Without recruiting (which is subjective at best) this guy has accomplished nothing here.

I never thought I would be a PJ promoter, but reality and the future of the MAC is important. Here are some stats regarding the Bronco's FB history since 2004.

2004 Gary Darnell 1/11
Bill Cubit won 3 post season bids in eight years. None of them being successive years. 2006; 2008; 2011 before going 4-8 in his final season in 2012.
He never won a Bowl game or got beyond his 2006 8-4 3rd in the MAC achievement.
Cubit 3/8
2005 Bill Cubit 7/5 ;5/6th in MAC
2006 Bill Cubit 8/5 ;3rd in MAC Bowl game
2007 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;7th in MAC
2008 Bill Cubit 9/4 ;3/4th in MAC Bowl game
2009 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;6th/7th in MAC
2010 Bill Cubit 6/6 ;6th in MAC
2011 Bill Cubit 7/6 ;5th in MAC Bowl game
2012 Bill Cubit 4/8 ;10nth in MAC
51/48 3/8 Bowl games 06 (3rd);08(t3rd/4th);11(5th) _

Along comes PJ Fleck. He does a Gary Darnell in his first year then goes 8 and 5 and to a Bowl game. He will get WMU to another Bowl game and another 1 month of extra FB practice which goes with a Bowl game and improves your FB team greatly.
He has only two years of his recruits on the field. THree years of consecutive best recruiting classes. If he beats the Illini next year as he is expected and the other lower ranked B1G team then he deserves credit.
Winning the MAC realistically another two to three years of consecutive Bowl appearances and beating P5 teams.

NIU and Toledo are not going to lay down and say PJ its your turn togo to Detroit.
You Bronco's have to earn it with descent OOC wins.

2013 PJ Fleck 1/11 ;t 11nth/12th
2014 PJ Fleck 8/5 ;4th in MAC Bowl game
2015 PJ Fleck 6/6 ;6th in MAC Bowl game

bowl games don't mean much now, anyone at 500 goes now. theres 40 this year, there was 35 in 2011,32 in 2006, and 25 in 2001. The explosion in games has made the "he was in a bowl game but his predecessor wasn't" argument meaningless.

Excellent point Lord Calvin, however one very important fact remains constant.
The extra practice time that a Bowl team gets, and how it builds momentum for the following Football season.

(11-24-2015 02:27 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-24-2015 10:49 AM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:17 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 04:06 PM)Ubish Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 12:24 PM)HuskieFanatic Wrote:  PJ may be quirky, but he has done a good job making WMU relevant. As long as he is the coach of WMU, they will be contenders in the West.

We didn't hire him to be contenders, Cubit had us as contenders, we hired him to WIN. That is something he has not yet done. Next year better be the year, or I think the players will start to doubt the rhetoric. Without recruiting (which is subjective at best) this guy has accomplished nothing here.

I never thought I would be a PJ promoter, but reality and the future of the MAC is important. Here are some stats regarding the Bronco's FB history since 2004.

2004 Gary Darnell 1/11
Bill Cubit won 3 post season bids in eight years. None of them being successive years. 2006; 2008; 2011 before going 4-8 in his final season in 2012.
He never won a Bowl game or got beyond his 2006 8-4 3rd in the MAC achievement.
Cubit 3/8
2005 Bill Cubit 7/5 ;5/6th in MAC
2006 Bill Cubit 8/5 ;3rd in MAC Bowl game
2007 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;7th in MAC
2008 Bill Cubit 9/4 ;3/4th in MAC Bowl game
2009 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;6th/7th in MAC
2010 Bill Cubit 6/6 ;6th in MAC
2011 Bill Cubit 7/6 ;5th in MAC Bowl game
2012 Bill Cubit 4/8 ;10nth in MAC
51/48 3/8 Bowl games 06 (3rd);08(t3rd/4th);11(5th) _

Along comes PJ Fleck. He does a Gary Darnell in his first year then goes 8 and 5 and to a Bowl game. He will get WMU to another Bowl game and another 1 month of extra FB practice which goes with a Bowl game and improves your FB team greatly.
He has only two years of his recruits on the field. THree years of consecutive best recruiting classes. If he beats the Illini next year as he is expected and the other lower ranked B1G team then he deserves credit.
Winning the MAC realistically another two to three years of consecutive Bowl appearances and beating P5 teams.

NIU and Toledo are not going to lay down and say PJ its your turn togo to Detroit.
You Bronco's have to earn it with descent OOC wins.

2013 PJ Fleck 1/11 ;t 11nth/12th
2014 PJ Fleck 8/5 ;4th in MAC Bowl game
2015 PJ Fleck 6/6 ;6th in MAC Bowl game

bowl games don't mean much now, anyone at 500 goes now. theres 40 this year, there was 35 in 2011,32 in 2006, and 25 in 2001. The explosion in games has made the "he was in a bowl game but his predecessor wasn't" argument meaningless.

Excellent point Lord Calvin, however one very important fact remains constant.
The extra practice time that a Bowl team gets, and how it builds momentum for the following Football season.

so your "one very important point" is 2 separate points, I hope you didn't go to NIU with that counting skill.
Also, neither of your "one very important points" has anything to do with if making a game means you are a good coach or not, which was the point of the comment.

(11-24-2015 05:06 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(11-24-2015 02:27 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-24-2015 10:49 AM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:17 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 04:06 PM)Ubish Wrote:  We didn't hire him to be contenders, Cubit had us as contenders, we hired him to WIN. That is something he has not yet done. Next year better be the year, or I think the players will start to doubt the rhetoric. Without recruiting (which is subjective at best) this guy has accomplished nothing here.

I never thought I would be a PJ promoter, but reality and the future of the MAC is important. Here are some stats regarding the Bronco's FB history since 2004.

2004 Gary Darnell 1/11
Bill Cubit won 3 post season bids in eight years. None of them being successive years. 2006; 2008; 2011 before going 4-8 in his final season in 2012.
He never won a Bowl game or got beyond his 2006 8-4 3rd in the MAC achievement.
Cubit 3/8
2005 Bill Cubit 7/5 ;5/6th in MAC
2006 Bill Cubit 8/5 ;3rd in MAC Bowl game
2007 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;7th in MAC
2008 Bill Cubit 9/4 ;3/4th in MAC Bowl game
2009 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;6th/7th in MAC
2010 Bill Cubit 6/6 ;6th in MAC
2011 Bill Cubit 7/6 ;5th in MAC Bowl game
2012 Bill Cubit 4/8 ;10nth in MAC
51/48 3/8 Bowl games 06 (3rd);08(t3rd/4th);11(5th) _

Along comes PJ Fleck. He does a Gary Darnell in his first year then goes 8 and 5 and to a Bowl game. He will get WMU to another Bowl game and another 1 month of extra FB practice which goes with a Bowl game and improves your FB team greatly.
He has only two years of his recruits on the field. THree years of consecutive best recruiting classes. If he beats the Illini next year as he is expected and the other lower ranked B1G team then he deserves credit.
Winning the MAC realistically another two to three years of consecutive Bowl appearances and beating P5 teams.

NIU and Toledo are not going to lay down and say PJ its your turn togo to Detroit.
You Bronco's have to earn it with descent OOC wins.

2013 PJ Fleck 1/11 ;t 11nth/12th
2014 PJ Fleck 8/5 ;4th in MAC Bowl game
2015 PJ Fleck 6/6 ;6th in MAC Bowl game

bowl games don't mean much now, anyone at 500 goes now. theres 40 this year, there was 35 in 2011,32 in 2006, and 25 in 2001. The explosion in games has made the "he was in a bowl game but his predecessor wasn't" argument meaningless.

Excellent point Lord Calvin, however one very important fact remains constant.
The extra practice time that a Bowl team gets, and how it builds momentum for the following Football season.

so your "one very important point" is 2 separate points, I hope you didn't go to NIU with that counting skill.
Also, neither of your "one very important points" has anything to do with if making a game means you are a good coach or not, which was the point of the comment.

Only one point. Extra one month of practice.
You might be confusing a natural result of that with an extra point.
Yes I did goto NIU, so check the counting on the WMU 2004-2015 FB stats.

Another resulting conclusion from that one point.
Coach Cubit was never able have his returning squad the following year get to another Bowl game.
Following Bowl years his teams finished :
2007 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;7th in MAC
2009 Bill Cubit 5/7 ;6th/7th in MAC
2012 Bill Cubit 4/8 ;10nth in MAC

2015 PJ Fleck 7/5 ;tied first in MAC West(with NIU/Toledo/CMU) Bowl game.

Better than the best Bill Cubit (2006 season) 8/5 season where he finished 2nd in the MAC WEST behind CMU. Two MAC losses at CMU (7-31) , at Ohio (20-27).
OOC losses in 2006: At Indiana (5-6) 20-39 ; Florida State (7-6) 20-28
OOC win: Virginia 5-6 ACC (4-4) WMU Won 17-10
Bowl loss 24-27 to Cincinnati in the International Bowl (Best Bowl loss only 3 points.)

2015 PJ beats a ranked Team something that Bill Cubit never did in 2006.
2015 PJ beats a two MAC West (and three MAC )teams with winning records versus 2006 where Cubit only beat one MAC team NIU (7-6) with a winning record.
Three MAC teams PJU beat were Toledo 9-2; Ohio 8-4; and CMU 7-5.
First time Bronco’s two successive 7 win seasons since 2005/2006
First time WMU finishes first (although tied since 2000. Only 4th time since 1946

Looks like PJ is already more successful than Coach Cubit and has 5 years more to prove it.