Obligatory joke about student athletics fees.

Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

this is why JK needs to act now if there is any chance to salvage the football program.

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

That's the funniest thing I have read here in a while.

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

I don't know if you've ever been to a HBU game, but unless there's a star recruit that intends to make mid-game CVS runs, I think y'all are safe.

This isn't the same guy that all the smart fellows on this board wanted to get rid of, is it?

(11-19-2015 08:53 PM)T-Moar Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

I don't know if you've ever been to a HBU game, but unless there's a star recruit that intends to make mid-game CVS runs, I think y'all are safe.

I've been to an HBU basketball game...

I'm looking forward to playing and beating them next year.. Until then I wish Herman and his team (with multiple Rice connections) nothing but the best.

I hope they can keep Herman and keep winning and are up to 30-0 and two time access bowl winners when we play at TDECU on 9/30/17.

(11-19-2015 07:58 PM)Klobasnek Wrote:  Obligatory joke about student athletics fees.

That is being replaced by menu price raises at all Tillman restaurants. It appears UH has finally found a replacement for John Moores. I am sure the UH crowd at Coogfans now can say "we need Tillman to ....." while at the same time they are closing their wallets. Maybe Kelvin Sampson will be coaching in the refurbished Bubba Gump Arena ala Pappa Johns Stadium.

(11-19-2015 11:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This isn't the same guy that all the smart fellows on this board wanted to get rid of, is it?

It certainly is. I think what we are seeing now is that the issue wasn't Herman, it was Bailiff. The problems complained of then are the problems complained of now. I think we should keep that in mind when we criticize Edmondson. I'm not vindicating Edmondson, his performance has not been good. But I'm not sure it's all his fault.

The lack of development of quarterbacks probably can be blamed on him. But I'm a believer that the position coach for your QBs should not be your OC. Those are the two most time consuming jobs on the O side of the ball, and combining them means that at least one gets shortchanged. If we retain the current staff, I'm inlined to think we should make Lynch OC (I don't like anything about the co-coordinator approach) and drop Edmondson back to just coaching QBs.

What problems "then"? The offenses under Herman were nationally relevant and objectively quite good.

(11-20-2015 08:29 AM)talon owl Wrote:  What problems "then"? The offenses under Herman were nationally relevant and objectively quite good.

I wasn't on the board back then, but I can't imagine what the complaints were. We ran a very, up-tempo offense that appeared to utilize players in such a way that they were not round blocks shoved into square holes as I've seen some suggest (see: Thor). We were #10 in yds per game (Tulsa and UH were 1 and 2), 5 in pass yards per game, and 8th in ppg, and Chase was #5 in the country in passing yards.

Heck, we even had Chase and JD on Jim Rome with their silly mustaches.

How people found fault in all of that (especially since rush yards per game were in the top 50% (#62)) boggles my mind. And it wasn't even like '07 was statistically much worse, it was primarily that Chase was very turn over prone (TD-Int = 21-5 in '06, 29-16 in '07, and 44-7 in '08).

Besides worse TO margin, defense was generally our problem in '08, with the exception of the game against Texas (finished the year beating Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl - remember that 8 play goal line stand?) and, potentially Vandy (not a world beater, but 7-6 in the SEC with some quality wins) who held the team scoreless in the second half.

(11-20-2015 09:06 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Besides worse TO margin, defense was generally our problem in '08, with the exception of the game against Texas (finished the year beating Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl - remember that 8 play goal line stand?) ...

That never happened!

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

Cheer up Charlie. Houston made a choice to go with an up and coming coach. As I see it, there are three possible scenarios.

First, I am reminded of S. Miss hiring the up and coming Larry Fedora. Four winning seasons 2009-2011 (7-6, 7-6, 8-5, 12-2) and then left before the last of the applause died. The next three USM seasons 2012-14 were terrible (0-12, 1-11, 3-9), but Fedora was in greener pastures.

Second, I think of Ole Dream Job Graham. One season at Rice and left as fast and as loudly as he came. He jumps at the "next dream job" before his players hatred or the NCAA Rules Committee can catch up with him.

Third, Gary Patterson. He has been committed to the program and they have been committed to him even through a few leaner years.

Personally, I don't think UH boosters and Administration have the patience of the approach which TCU has taken which is why they are willing to make the big pay day to try and keep someone they think is the second coming. Knowing what I do of Coach Herman, I don't think he has to outrun player hatred or NCAA issues. So I think the most likely scenario would be Herman will leave when he thinks (or knows) that his stock can only drop with more time at UH. Whether that is this year or in a couple, the day will come when his coaching stock and a perfect opportunity cross paths in a way that he can't refuse.

Well, remember Nicholls State in 2007? Tom Herman certainly laid an egg in that one. Tom Herman struggled during much of 2007, and remember the controversy about not letting Chase run and have more freedom, which was his game?? This could have been Bailiff's interference, but Tom clearly had a role. By 2008, the offense had dramatically improved, but Tom seemed to undergo a steep learning curve during his two years at Rice. He's obviously the best assistant Bailiff has ever had, and his quick flight to Iowa State of all places indicated he didn't want to stick around with Bailiff. I thought that would be the last we would hear of Tom Herman.

Tom Herman has done well at UH, although I am not sure he's earned a $3 million a year package after 10 games as a HC. The only two significant victories are over a so-so Vanderbilt and a surging Memphis. The Memphis win wasn't going well for much of the game. What if Navy steamrolls UH, and UH gets crushed by a significant opponent in the bowl game? This could backfire on them.

(11-20-2015 10:05 AM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  Well, remember Nicholls State in 2007? Tom Herman certainly laid an egg in that one. Tom Herman struggled during much of 2007, and remember the controversy about not letting Chase run and have more freedom, which was his game?? This could have been Bailiff's interference, but Tom clearly had a role. By 2008, the offense had dramatically improved, but Tom seemed to undergo a steep learning curve during his two years at Rice. He's obviously the best assistant Bailiff has ever had, and his quick flight to Iowa State of all places indicated he didn't want to stick around with Bailiff. I thought that would be the last we would hear of Tom Herman.

Tom Herman has done well at UH, although I am not sure he's earned a $3 million a year package after 10 games as a HC. The only two significant victories are over a so-so Vanderbilt and a surging Memphis. The Memphis win wasn't going well for much of the game. What if Navy steamrolls UH, and UH gets crushed by a significant opponent in the bowl game? This could backfire on them.

I think the $250,000 a year salary and P5 coaching had a lot to do with him leaving. I don't imagine our OC in '08 was getting paid anywhere close to that.

https://theclonezone.wordpress.com/tag/rice/

And like I said, I wasn't around these boards back then, so I don't have any reference for what controversies were around back then. I just looked back at the data and used my memories to try and understand how there were any controversies about Herman while at Rice.

Also, regarding Nicholls State, I posted this before, that game featured a future NFLer (Ladarius Webb) picking off Clement three times and a blocked punt through the end zone winning it for Nicholls. I'd say that the poor effort was much more on Bailiff preparing his team, than Herman running the offense, but I guess he did put Chase in the position to throw three picks.

(11-20-2015 07:39 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  I'm looking forward to playing and beating them next year.. Until then I wish Herman and his team (with multiple Rice connections) nothing but the best.

I hope they can keep Herman and keep winning and are up to 30-0 and two time access bowl winners when we play at TDECU on 9/30/17.

The two scheduled Rice-UH games:

September 30, 2017
September 1, 2018

(11-20-2015 10:00 AM)WTXOwl Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

Third, Gary Patterson. He has been committed to the program and they have been committed to him even through a few leaner years.

Personally, I don't think UH boosters and Administration have the patience of the approach which TCU has taken which is why they are willing to make the big pay day to try and keep someone they think is the second coming. Knowing what I do of Coach Herman, I don't think he has to outrun player hatred or NCAA issues. So I think the most likely scenario would be Herman will leave when he thinks (or knows) that his stock can only drop with more time at UH. Whether that is this year or in a couple, the day will come when his coaching stock and a perfect opportunity cross paths in a way that he can't refuse.

UH boosters don't have the patience to have the same approach TCU had? You can't be serious. You do realize good competitive college football coaches have egos and want to coach at the universities with the best facilities and unlimited budgets for staff, recruiting, etc. Name a coach UH could pay that fits both the criteria consistently wins 10+ games, and will stay at a 2nd tier school for decades. If it were so easy to pull off what TCU did, all the G5 programs would be trying to do it.

Gary Patterson makes money off of Oil and Gas rights through various TCU alumni, and he has the benefit of making it to a P5 conference. Gary Patterson is the exception to the rule.

Herman leaves when he gets an offer from a school that has enough prestige that he can stay long term and a budget that allows him to pay the best staff and do whatever he needs to do to recruit. We are the second to last rung of the ladder.

HBU's stadium is smaller than the stadium of my local 5A high school.

(11-19-2015 08:53 PM)T-Moar Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 08:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Too depressing to joke about. We are officially eclipsed. If you check the rearview mirror, you'll see HBU and SHS gaining rapidly as we putter along.

I don't know if you've ever been to a HBU game, but unless there's a star recruit that intends to make mid-game CVS runs, I think y'all are safe.

(11-20-2015 10:05 AM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  Tom Herman has done well at UH, although I am not sure he's earned a $3 million a year package after 10 games as a HC. The only two significant victories are over a so-so Vanderbilt and a surging Memphis. The Memphis win wasn't going well for much of the game. What if Navy steamrolls UH, and UH gets crushed by a significant opponent in the bowl game? This could backfire on them.

His two significant victories are Louisville and Memphis. If Navy steamrolls UH and UH loses in a bowl, then so be it. This is a team that lost to UTSA and Tulane at home last year, and had to bench a QB who was a freshman all-american to play WR at QB. Herman was absolutely worth the money we paid him this year. Especially if you look at the recruits that are committed. We flipped a 4* WR from TCU last week. Herman may not be worth 3MM a year yet, but he's worth more to UH than what he's getting paid, and G5 schools have to pay a premium to at least attempt keep low and mid level P5 schools from swooping in anyway. I'm not even sure he takes the 3MM at this point.