The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2...tba_1.html

Quote:Maybe next year will be the Broncos' year to get over the hump. Zach Terrell, Corey Davis and Daniel Braverman will be seniors and there will be numerous other returning players on both sides of the ball and should no longer be as young as Fleck as described his teams the last two years.

Maybe next year WMU will get it done in big games.

Next year. The album title of the broken record that is Western Michigan football

Quote:Fleck sold himself on being different when he was hired, but with each passing week there are growing similarities to the past two coaches; A handful of star players come to Kalamazoo and there are some above average seasons, but an inability to get over the hump is a common theme.

Spot on. Hard to break the culture.

As my favorite saying goes, "Get better, not bitter"

(11-19-2015 02:34 PM)bronconick Wrote:  http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2...tba_1.html

Quote:Maybe next year will be the Broncos' year to get over the hump. Zach Terrell, Corey Davis and Daniel Braverman will be seniors and there will be numerous other returning players on both sides of the ball and should no longer be as young as Fleck as described his teams the last two years.

Maybe next year WMU will get it done in big games.

Next year. The album title of the broken record that is Western Michigan football

Nice article.

Thanks for posting!

(11-19-2015 02:44 PM)Broncobelt Wrote:  

Quote:Fleck sold himself on being different when he was hired, but with each passing week there are growing similarities to the past two coaches; A handful of star players come to Kalamazoo and there are some above average seasons, but an inability to get over the hump is a common theme.

Great column again.

Although I don't know about the comparison to Darnell's trajectory. He started out sky high (2 West titles, a B1G win) and really crashed down toward 1-10 his final season.

Ok, when Mr. motivational speaker started, even before he was "announced" as a hire, when you sharks were circling blaming everyone but the common denominator, I suggested that maybe the issue was deeper than who was at HC. Rinse, recycle, and repeat.

We wore out some good men. Doo, Elliot, GD, Cubit and now "the kid" can't break through the artificial ceiling put in place by the surrounding culture. (I didn't include Jack in there but to be fair, he won a NC at WKU D1AA after he left so yeah...)

When The Booster(s) stepped up and gave their pal an unnecessary and ridiculous raise after last season, that instantly opened the door for DD to be more critical of the highest paid coach in MAC history if he wasn't successful. When you get a $400k raise and are making $300k more than ANY OTHER COACH IN THE CONFERENCE and are looking a 4th place division finish in the eye, you are fair game for articles like this.

I give DD credit for having the stones to say it and tell it like it is.

(11-19-2015 03:49 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  When The Booster(s) stepped up and gave their pal an unnecessary and ridiculous raise after last season, that instantly opened the door for DD to be more critical of the highest paid coach in MAC history if he wasn't successful. When you get a $400k raise and are making $300k more than ANY OTHER COACH IN THE CONFERENCE and are looking a 4th place division finish in the eye, you are fair game for articles like this.

I give DD credit for having the stones to say it and tell it like it is.

Hope he doesn't get "froze out"

Wait... he just said in that quote "That team out there (NIU) took 13 years to win their first title plus three head coaches. " when only yesterday, he was droning on about how these kids don't know the history, don't care about their history, they only care about this year and winning.

(11-19-2015 04:08 PM)rtletterman Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:49 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  When The Booster(s) stepped up and gave their pal an unnecessary and ridiculous raise after last season, that instantly opened the door for DD to be more critical of the highest paid coach in MAC history if he wasn't successful. When you get a $400k raise and are making $300k more than ANY OTHER COACH IN THE CONFERENCE and are looking a 4th place division finish in the eye, you are fair game for articles like this.

I give DD credit for having the stones to say it and tell it like it is.

Hope he doesn't get "froze out"

He's out. That's why he did t know about the Corey Davis story this week and the NIU/ESPN coverage did.

A couple plays here or there and the players BELIEVING in themselves and close games become wins. WMU is right there sniffing at the door of a championship. You have the talent, that is not the issue and the coach is fine. Patience is never part of a FANanic's DNA, but that is what is needed now. 2016 is the real test for WMU and PJ. Patience.

(11-20-2015 12:24 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  A couple plays here or there and the players BELIEVING in themselves and close games become wins. WMU is right there sniffing at the door of a championship. You have the talent, that is not the issue and the coach is fine. Patience is never part of a FANanic's DNA, but that is what is needed now. 2016 is the real test for WMU and PJ. Patience.

You just described football. Nothing new. Neither is this guys bs act.

Fear here is he and the president are nothing but frauds and it's slowly becoming the reality.

(11-19-2015 04:10 PM)rtletterman Wrote:  Wait... he just said in that quote "That team out there (NIU) took 13 years to win their first title plus three head coaches. " when only yesterday, he was droning on about how these kids don't know the history, don't care about their history, they only care about this year and winning.

He is correct. He left out the longest losing streak in the NCAAF spanning 23 games.
8 years to win ten games. 2003
Ten years to beat Toledo and get to Detroit. 2005
Sixteen years to win a MAC Championship. 2011

PJ has you at #4 in the MAC, ahead of CMU, Ohio and BSU.
Two consecutive Bowl games.
Probably first WMU post season win.
A team that threatens to climb up the MAC rankings within two years.
I predict that with 4 years of PJ recruits WMU will be a contender for the MAC west.
Three years sooner than Joe Novak.

(11-20-2015 12:24 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  A couple plays here or there and the players BELIEVING in themselves and close games become wins. WMU is right there sniffing at the door of a championship. You have the talent, that is not the issue and the coach is fine. Patience is never part of a FANanic's DNA, but that is what is needed now. 2016 is the real test for WMU and PJ. Patience.

Agree. WMU turnaround from a losing team to an annual Bowl team is incredible.
2017 with 4 years of PJ recruits will be the first real test if the Bronco's can win a MAC west. It took 14 years at NIU to build a 6 team dynasty.
WMU cannot expect to duplicate this feet in three, four or five years.

WMU was not in the sh!tter like NIU was when Novak started. I don't think Fleck was given an outstanding hand to play with but it wasn't THAT bad and one year rosters aside the program that Novak took over was almost EMU-level bad.

That said I agree that the sky isn't falling, but of course the board is pissy after another year falling short. I disagree though that 2017 is the telling year. If we can't win the West at a minimum with next year's roster and schedule I don't know what it would take for this staff.

(11-20-2015 02:48 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  WMU was not in the sh!tter like NIU was when Novak started. I don't think Fleck was given an outstanding hand to play with but it wasn't THAT bad and one year rosters aside the program that Novak took over was almost EMU-level bad.

That said I agree that the sky isn't falling, but of course the board is pissy after another year falling short. I disagree though that 2017 is the telling year. If we can't win the West at a minimum with next year's roster and schedule I don't know what it would take for this staff.

Novak had a 23 game losing streak and was 3-30, before things began to turn around.
Took 5 years to get a winning season and build the base to get 14/15 winning seasons.
Took ten years for NIU to goto Detroit and six more years to win a MAC title.

WMU needs a post season win.
One month of extra practice builds a team.
Took PJ two years to get WMU to getting a post season Bowl every year.
WMU still needs a good OOC win.
WMU still needs to beat a ranked team.
Many steps towards a MAC West Championship.
2016 will be another building year barring a miraculous break.
2017 could be WMU's year with 4 top back to back to back MAC recruiting classes
performing together.
When you schedule MSU 4 years straight, you are setting the bar above a MACC.
An MACC without a good OOC performance is not worth much.
NIU and Toledo regularly beat good P5 teams.
Before WMU can beat NIU or Toledo the first step is to beat these OOC teams.

(11-20-2015 03:55 AM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 02:48 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  WMU was not in the sh!tter like NIU was when Novak started. I don't think Fleck was given an outstanding hand to play with but it wasn't THAT bad and one year rosters aside the program that Novak took over was almost EMU-level bad.

That said I agree that the sky isn't falling, but of course the board is pissy after another year falling short. I disagree though that 2017 is the telling year. If we can't win the West at a minimum with next year's roster and schedule I don't know what it would take for this staff.

Novak had a 23 game losing streak and was 3-30, before things began to turn around.
Took 5 years to get a winning season and build the base to get 14/15 winning seasons.
Took ten years for NIU to goto Detroit and six more years to win a MAC title.

WMU needs a post season win.
One month of extra practice builds a team.
Took PJ two years to get WMU to getting a post season Bowl every year.
WMU still needs a good OOC win.
WMU still needs to beat a ranked team.
Many steps towards a MAC West Championship.
2016 will be another building year barring a miraculous break.
2017 could be WMU's year with 4 top back to back to back MAC recruiting classes
performing together.
When you schedule MSU 4 years straight, you are setting the bar above a MACC.
An MACC without a good OOC performance is not worth much.
NIU and Toledo regularly beat good P5 teams.
Before WMU can beat NIU or Toledo the first step is to beat these OOC teams.

Last I looked WMU is at USC and MSU in 2017.

What's with the predicting greatness and then boasting like it's already been accomplished?

PJ for all his boasting and predicting has us looking at nothing accomplished. He took a team that had a 4-8 record, which in those losses only lost by a small margin in 2012, was leading in the 3rd quarter in many of the games, and went 1-11 with them the next year. They were losing ugly.

2014? Those terrible players he inherited were a big part of the wins over a favorable schedule. This year? We digress. We lose some key SR's in the secondary after this season, we will see how things really stack up when it's his players next year.

After seeing how we get out coached and beat by anyone established and good, I'm beginning to think we won't be beating anyone good.

(11-20-2015 05:50 AM)rtletterman Wrote:  What's with the predicting greatness and then boasting like it's already been accomplished?

PJ for all his boasting and predicting has us looking at nothing accomplished. He took a team that had a 4-8 record, which in those losses only lost by a small margin in 2012, was leading in the 3rd quarter in many of the games, and went 1-11 with them the next year. They were losing ugly.

2014? Those terrible players he inherited were a big part of the wins over a favorable schedule. This year? We digress. We lose some key SR's in the secondary after this season, we will see how things really stack up when it's his players next year.

After seeing how we get out coached and beat by anyone established and good, I'm beginning to think we won't be beating anyone good.

That's the biggest fear. Hes good at selling talented kids to come play football at WMU but the ability to coach em and game plan is suspect at this point. There were some real head scratchers against NI. Next year the jury is out on any type of championship.

(11-20-2015 02:16 AM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 04:10 PM)rtletterman Wrote:  Wait... he just said in that quote "That team out there (NIU) took 13 years to win their first title plus three head coaches. " when only yesterday, he was droning on about how these kids don't know the history, don't care about their history, they only care about this year and winning.

He is correct. He left out the longest losing streak in the NCAAF spanning 23 games.
8 years to win ten games. 2003
Ten years to beat Toledo and get to Detroit. 2005
Sixteen years to win a MAC Championship. 2011

PJ has you at #4 in the MAC, ahead of CMU, Ohio and BSU.
Two consecutive Bowl games.
Probably first WMU post season win.
A team that threatens to climb up the MAC rankings within two years.
I predict that with 4 years of PJ recruits WMU will be a contender for the MAC west.
Three years sooner than Joe Novak.

That's all bull spit.

Novak took over from Charlie Sadler who had five straight losing seasons (18-37) including 3-8 in his last.

No comparison to program Fleck inherited from Cubit.