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Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 02:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:06 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Let's get real, money really isn't an issue for G5 schools. Anti-Sports Professors love to make you think it is, because they wish they were getting the money that is going towards football for themselves, but it really isn't an issue.

UMass for example, the football budget is LESS than 1% of the entire university budget. That's right, LESS than 1%. But you wouldn't know that because of all the crying/whining/lying that the Anti-Sports professors love to spew in the media.

Athletics, particularly football and men's basketball, is defacto part of the marketing of the university to prospective undergraduates.

Some people don't like that, but it is a fact.

And an even more important marketing tool - not less - in an era of declining applications and enrollments. That is the critical issue college presidents are facing, not the size of their athletics budgets.

It depends where a school is on the food chain.

I doubt it.

A survey of "non-elite academic" prospective undergraduates would probably have 65+% preferring to attend a university that has a football team, vs one that does not.


Yeah, I pulled that out of my rear. But I think it's true, anyway.
11-17-2015 03:00 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 02:32 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 11:33 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The key to competing in the G5 is to compete WITHIN your conference....not to compete with P5. Certainly the American is best set up to compete with the P5 over the long run, it plays in relatively large facilities in mostly major cities. No one is going to cancel their programs...the FCS is the biggest loser here...they are losing many of their best programs, who are taking more and more student athletes with them. The transfer rules are the only thing they have going for them in terms of quality...see Vad Lee from JMU.

Before to be a respected G5 program you had to look like a P5. Build a 60,000 seat stadium like BYU and get ND to play you at home. Be as part of the establishment as possible.

The way college football is set up now, if you are a conference championship level program in the G5 you are a NY6 bowl contender. This is going to change recruiting to a level playing field against second division P5 programs that are buried below a mountain of elite programs. Instead of just Boise State, Utah and TCU serious contenders for an NY6 in the new system its going to be 10-15 schools (2-3 per conference) that can contend.

What then is a better ratio for NY6 competition; 2 schools out of 14 in the ACC (Florida State, Clemson) or 12 schools out of 60 in the G5? In many ways a G5 can have it better by paying smaller salaries, smaller facilities for the same reward.

Its impossible to make they playoff unless a school is a giant Heisman factory. For a second tier P5 school the playoff is out of reach. G5 programs if they were to join a P5 would be second tier. They would still do it for the money but its not a prerequisite for recruiting as it was in the 90's when VT moved into the Big East.

In theory this is correct...I wonder why so many are not practicing it. Marshall, for example, continues to schedule out of conference to the point where they would be overlooked even if they win CUSA. I know they want to recruit in Ohio, but scheduling two MAC programs (along with an FCS) isn't going to ever give them the nod.

And that's why I say in theory, because in reality you are going to have to have a strong enough schedule to justify the spot...and is the Sun Belt winner going to have that? Is the MAC winner going to have that? There are so many G5 schools, its easy to get lost in the mix....unless you are a Boise State or one of the American programs that have to go through some sort of gauntlet in conference and plays P5 programs as well.

So, IMO the goal needs to remain to win your conference...not get that G5 berth...if you get that, great. For schools that means bring in the best athlete you can that is D-1 caliber, build your program and put up W's. I don't think you can sell a New Years Day Bowl in your marketing to them. They will choose Indiana, Iowa State or whatever other lower level P5 program almost every day of the week because of the facilities and exposure...unless you can sell them on playing time, being local, etc...that the G5 school offers them. There are only so many G5 programs that can give an athlete P5 exposure and competition...kids will go to what they deem is the biggest place they can play...just about always.
11-17-2015 03:01 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 03:01 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:32 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 11:33 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The key to competing in the G5 is to compete WITHIN your conference....not to compete with P5. Certainly the American is best set up to compete with the P5 over the long run, it plays in relatively large facilities in mostly major cities. No one is going to cancel their programs...the FCS is the biggest loser here...they are losing many of their best programs, who are taking more and more student athletes with them. The transfer rules are the only thing they have going for them in terms of quality...see Vad Lee from JMU.

Before to be a respected G5 program you had to look like a P5. Build a 60,000 seat stadium like BYU and get ND to play you at home. Be as part of the establishment as possible.

The way college football is set up now, if you are a conference championship level program in the G5 you are a NY6 bowl contender. This is going to change recruiting to a level playing field against second division P5 programs that are buried below a mountain of elite programs. Instead of just Boise State, Utah and TCU serious contenders for an NY6 in the new system its going to be 10-15 schools (2-3 per conference) that can contend.

What then is a better ratio for NY6 competition; 2 schools out of 14 in the ACC (Florida State, Clemson) or 12 schools out of 60 in the G5? In many ways a G5 can have it better by paying smaller salaries, smaller facilities for the same reward.

Its impossible to make they playoff unless a school is a giant Heisman factory. For a second tier P5 school the playoff is out of reach. G5 programs if they were to join a P5 would be second tier. They would still do it for the money but its not a prerequisite for recruiting as it was in the 90's when VT moved into the Big East.

In theory this is correct...I wonder why so many are not practicing it. Marshall, for example, continues to schedule out of conference to the point where they would be overlooked even if they win CUSA. I know they want to recruit in Ohio, but scheduling two MAC programs (along with an FCS) isn't going to ever give them the nod.

And that's why I say in theory, because in reality you are going to have to have a strong enough schedule to justify the spot...and is the Sun Belt winner going to have that? Is the MAC winner going to have that? There are so many G5 schools, its easy to get lost in the mix....unless you are a Boise State or one of the American programs that have to go through some sort of gauntlet in conference and plays P5 programs as well.

So, IMO the goal needs to remain to win your conference...not get that G5 berth...if you get that, great. For schools that means bring in the best athlete you can that is D-1 caliber, build your program and put up W's. I don't think you can sell a New Years Day Bowl in your marketing to them. They will choose Indiana, Iowa State or whatever other lower level P5 program almost every day of the week because of the facilities and exposure...unless you can sell them on playing time, being local, etc...that the G5 school offers them. There are only so many G5 programs that can give an athlete P5 exposure and competition...kids will go to what they deem is the biggest place they can play...just about always.

Right. That is why I predict a small cluster of G5 programs in the mix for the NY6 every year. That 10-15 I am talking about. It could be 4 of them are AAC and 2 of them are SBC.

On Marshall, they may think there is no point in trying to game an NY6 bid. A school can try to schedule up and rack up more losses or try to run the table or 1 loss making themselves a contender that way.

Bowling Green goes out and plays road warrior but Bowling Green doesn't have great home support to protect. Marshall does. Ohio does as well and schedules an FCS school to sell out in front of the home crowd.

Look at Navy's situation. They didn't schedule up in OOC but Memphis did with Ole Miss. Then they go out and beat Memphis and receive respect for that win.
11-17-2015 03:15 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:06 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  Let's get real, money really isn't an issue for G5 schools. Anti-Sports Professors love to make you think it is, because they wish they were getting the money that is going towards football for themselves, but it really isn't an issue.

UMass for example, the football budget is LESS than 1% of the entire university budget. That's right, LESS than 1%. But you wouldn't know that because of all the crying/whining/lying that the Anti-Sports professors love to spew in the media.

Athletics, particularly football and men's basketball, is defacto part of the marketing of the university to prospective undergraduates.

Some people don't like that, but it is a fact.

And an even more important marketing tool - not less - in an era of declining applications and enrollments. That is the critical issue college presidents are facing, not the size of their athletics budgets.

It depends where a school is on the food chain.

I doubt it.

A survey of "non-elite academic" prospective undergraduates would probably have 65+% preferring to attend a university that has a football team, vs one that does not.


Yeah, I pulled that out of my rear. But I think it's true, anyway.

Sure on the stat.

I was thinking more about the decision whether athletics become a financial drain to the point of stepping down depends where a school is on the food chain.

The idea that schools will be financially pinched for lower enrollments e.g. Very few G5 programs are low enough on the food chain for enrollment to be an issue.
11-17-2015 03:18 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 11:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  As far as I can tell, the FBS requirement for scholarship equivalents is that you must give at least 200 of them. If you give 98 for football and MBB combined, and 102 for all women's sports, it seems you would meet that test and also satisfy Title IX.

But that would suggest that schools don't really care if they win in the other men's sports, and I just don't believe that's the case - especially for schools in P5 conferences.

Nearly every P5 school has at least a couple of generous donors who care about each sport, and the risk to future donations if you abandon support for most "olympic sports" outweighs the marginal cost savings from maintaining those sports with fewer or no scholarships.
11-17-2015 03:42 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 03:18 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Athletics, particularly football and men's basketball, is defacto part of the marketing of the university to prospective undergraduates.

Some people don't like that, but it is a fact.

And an even more important marketing tool - not less - in an era of declining applications and enrollments. That is the critical issue college presidents are facing, not the size of their athletics budgets.

It depends where a school is on the food chain.

I doubt it.

A survey of "non-elite academic" prospective undergraduates would probably have 65+% preferring to attend a university that has a football team, vs one that does not.


Yeah, I pulled that out of my rear. But I think it's true, anyway.

Sure on the stat.

I was thinking more about the decision whether athletics become a financial drain to the point of stepping down depends where a school is on the food chain.

The idea that schools will be financially pinched for lower enrollments e.g. Very few G5 programs are low enough on the food chain for enrollment to be an issue.

I just don't see the athletics dept being a financial drain on the school itself, for any of the P5 programs.

At worst case, they can ask students to pay for it separately with athletics fees. Hopefully, athletics revenue and donors pick up the majority of the costs.
11-17-2015 05:20 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 03:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 11:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  As far as I can tell, the FBS requirement for scholarship equivalents is that you must give at least 200 of them. If you give 98 for football and MBB combined, and 102 for all women's sports, it seems you would meet that test and also satisfy Title IX.

But that would suggest that schools don't really care if they win in the other men's sports, and I just don't believe that's the case - especially for schools in P5 conferences.

Nearly every P5 school has at least a couple of generous donors who care about each sport, and the risk to future donations if you abandon support for most "olympic sports" outweighs the marginal cost savings from maintaining those sports with fewer or no scholarships.

Another great point.
11-17-2015 05:21 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
There is the question could the Top FCS conferences want to upgrade their conferences to be FBS?
Big Sky
CAA
MVFC
OVC
Southern
Southland

The question is would the FBS would allow rules changes to actually create to tiers at FBS level? These schools do not have to be part of the G5 playoff agreements until in the future. But, We might be able to add more Bowl games which could generate more interests.

Lets say the Bowl game in Little Rock could be between the Sun Belt Vs. a Southland conference. Lets say the 2 teams would be Arkansas State Vs. Central Arkansas. This could create a buzz especially these 2 teams were old rivalries a long time ago.

Some good matchups for new bowls.

Big Sky Vs. MWC
MVFC Vs. MAC
MVFC Vs. Southland
MVFC Vs. C-USA West
MVFC Vs. Big 12 if the Big 12 expands.
Sun Belt Vs. Southern
OVC Vs. C-USA East
OVC Vs. MAC
OVC Vs. AAC
CAA Vs. AAC
CAA Vs. MAC
MVFC Vs. Big 10

Schools in the FCS that would be Bowl eligible this year.
Portland State Big Sky
Southern Utah Big Sky
Eastern Washington Big Sky
Northern Arizona Big Sky
North Dakota Big Sky
Montana Big Sky
Coastal Carolina Big South/Sun Belt
Kennesaw State Big South (could be invited to be part of a FBS conference that needs to get to 12.)
Charleston Southern Big South Not sure if there is an interest in adding them.
Richmond CAA
William & Mary CAA Been to bowl games in the past.
James Madison CAA
Towson CAA
New Hampshire CAA
Ivy teams are out.
North Carolina A&T MEAC
Bethune-Cookman MEAC Any interest for a school in Daytona Beach, Florida?
South Carolina State MEAC
North Carolina Central MEAC
Hampton U. MEAC
Would the extra cash helps these schools out to be in bowls to attract students and all that?
Illinois State MVFC
North Dakota State MVFC There could be an interests for this team to play a Big 12 team in a bowl game.
South Dakota State. MVFC
Northern Iowa MVFC
Duquense NEC
St. Francis, Pa. NEC
Jacksonville State OVC
Eastern Illinois OVC
Tennessee-Martin OVC
Eastern Kentucky OVC
Fordham Patriot
Holy Cross Patriot
Colgate Patriot
Dayton Pioneer
Jacksonville Pioneer
San Diego Pioneer
Butler Pioneer
McNeese State Southland
Sam Houston State Southland
Central Arkansas Southland
Chattanooga Southern
Citadel Southern (Military Bowl could take them as well.)
Western Carolina Southern
Grambling State SWAC
Prairie View SWAC
Alcorn State SWAC
Southern U. SWAC

This is depends on who could go where. Idaho could leave the Sun Belt to join the Big Sky.
New Mexico State could rejoin the MVFC.

Plus, there is one factor of why all universities except for some that have to be factored in. The cost of travel, the cost of staying at a hotel/motel, food for the athletes and so forth does add onto the debt. The only way to save money is for these conferences not looking into expanding with schools that are far away. Look at how many schools that would loved to be part of the P5, G5 or FCS? Look at the GAC in D2 that covers Arkansas and Oklahoma schools? Arkansas schools broke away because it costs too much to travel to Florida, Alabama and so forth. It is a lot cheaper travel this way. Southland is close to being similar as well.
GAC furthest west school is NW Oklahoma State. The furthest east Arkansas school is Arkansas-Monticello. They have saved a lot of money. Now, for the FCS and D1 schools should do is look at what is the best for the school and to save their sports. They might look at travel friendly conferences. This could be great for the G5 schools as well.
11-17-2015 06:07 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 03:01 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  In theory this is correct...I wonder why so many are not practicing it. Marshall, for example, continues to schedule out of conference to the point where they would be overlooked even if they win CUSA. I know they want to recruit in Ohio, but scheduling two MAC programs (along with an FCS) isn't going to ever give them the nod.

And that's why I say in theory, because in reality you are going to have to have a strong enough schedule to justify the spot...and is the Sun Belt winner going to have that? Is the MAC winner going to have that?
Go5 conferences will continue to have "up" and "down" years going ahead. The number of OOC games that define whether a conference is "up" or "down" are just too few in number for the results as they happen to cluster tightly around what would have been the "expected" results if those games were replayed 10 times each.

And we know that the MAC winner certainly could have the SOS to be in the mix ... since one of the MAC schools was in the mix until it lost in conference. Setting to one side all of the (now moot) arguments about what was "likely" and who had their future "in their hands", the fact remains that Toledo got themselves into the mix.

And some MAC schools will be scheduling one buy game rather than two, try to schedule a more respected Go5 program H&H, and be in a position, with a "strong enough but not too strong" schedule (because they got lucky in catching a P5 schools in a down year or, even better, a down game in a decent year) to get into the mix if they run the table.

Now, the odds are for any given year that either the AAC, the MWC or both will have an up year, and one of those two champions will then likely play in the NY6, but there's a real chance at the start of any given year, somewhere in the 1:3 to 1:7 range, that both the AAC and MWC will have a down year at the same time, and the door will be open for the MAC or CUSA champion at the end of that year.

But even in the years when the MWC, AAC or both have a strong inside track, some of the MAC schools will always have a "strong enough but not too strong" schedule that they could be in the mix if they run the table ... and so be in the conversation until they lose.

Now, its still very much in the nature of winning a lottery. But having people who are not close followers of a Go5 conference seeing one or more of your teams in the CFP rankings, and talking about one or more of your teams with a shot at a big bowl game ... that's going to be good news for #MACtion viewership.

Which is, for the schools involved, a marketing win. And, after all, the boost to their profile in their target student markets is why the Go5 schools pay the money to continue to compete at the FBS level. That may be listed as a cost of the "athletic department" expense, but in strategic terms, it certainly isn't spending "so their students have opportunities to compete in high level varsity sporting competition to develop as well-rounded scholar-athletes" ... its a marketing spend.
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2015 07:24 PM by BruceMcF.)
11-17-2015 07:23 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 09:22 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 10:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-16-2015 11:51 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  If football and basketball are the most important sports driving the P5, why give scholarships to the other men's sports? If you have 98 scholarship between football and basketball, have 4 Men Sports without scholarships, and have enough scholarships to meet the Title IX requirement for the women's sports. Cost savings right there.

To be FBS, your athletic department has to sponsor a minimum number of varsity sports teams (with another minimum number being female teams) and has to provide a minimum total number of full scholarship equivalencies across the teams.

That's why.

There is no conference rule saying you have to have scholarships for any of your sports. Look at the MAAC or Big East, I believe Providence VB is the only team in the conference that doesn't have scholarships.

Have 85 scholarships for FB and Basketball, meet the Title IX requirement for Women's Sports, offer 7 or 8 sports with full scholarships, have 4 more men's sports without scholarships. Money saved

Wedge already gave the correct response to this, in post #46.
11-18-2015 10:00 AM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-16-2015 12:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  And by the way, just because you can pay big time for a coach doesn't guarantee you'll win. Look at Michigan.

And Texas.
11-18-2015 12:09 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 05:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 03:18 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 02:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  And an even more important marketing tool - not less - in an era of declining applications and enrollments. That is the critical issue college presidents are facing, not the size of their athletics budgets.

It depends where a school is on the food chain.

I doubt it.

A survey of "non-elite academic" prospective undergraduates would probably have 65+% preferring to attend a university that has a football team, vs one that does not.


Yeah, I pulled that out of my rear. But I think it's true, anyway.

Sure on the stat.

I was thinking more about the decision whether athletics become a financial drain to the point of stepping down depends where a school is on the food chain.

The idea that schools will be financially pinched for lower enrollments e.g. Very few G5 programs are low enough on the food chain for enrollment to be an issue.

I just don't see the athletics dept being a financial drain on the school itself, for any of the P5 programs.

At worst case, they can ask students to pay for it separately with athletics fees. Hopefully, athletics revenue and donors pick up the majority of the costs.


Sadly, only 10 schools actually in the black for all sports because of their football. There are levels. Some P5 schools do spend too much which puts them behind. There were reports that some P5 schools a few years back lost a lot of money, that it is not a laughing matter. Some PAC 12, Vanderbilt and some ACC schools have been thinking of cutting sports to save money. California dropped baseball until they got a backlash in doing that. Some former MLB players donated a lot of money to keep the program going.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/california-...caabb.html

Some G5 schools are doing better than some P5 schools right now. Boise State is doing better than Washington State right now. That is one good example. Boise State sells more tickets to football games than Washington State.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2015 01:40 PM by DavidSt.)
11-18-2015 01:38 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-17-2015 09:22 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  There is no conference rule saying you have to have scholarships for any of your sports. Look at the MAAC or Big East, I believe Providence VB is the only team in the conference that doesn't have scholarships.
But there are Division 1 and FBS rules on how scholarship minimums. For all division 1:

20.9.3.2a: A minimum of half of allowed scholarships in 14 sports, at least 7 of which must be women's sports, and if you use Indoor and Outdoor T&F & Cross Country as three sports, those must be 80%. (A cost-minimizing school will often be doing exactly that, with FB and men's BBall as their men's team sports (three men's team sports are only required if you do not play FB) so there are three men's Olympic sports where they would be giving men's scholarships.)

OR 20.9.3.2b: $1,459,433 in financial aid (at least half of which must be for women) in 2015-2016, exclusive of grants in football and basketball, provided the total is greater or equal to 38 full grants (at least 19 to women). (NB. the dollar figure adjusts annually).

OR 20.9.3.2c: A minimum of the equivalent of the award of 50 full grants, exclusive of grants to football and M&W Basketball.


And the FBS scholarship limits are higher (20.9.9.4): "(a) Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year during a rolling two-year period; and (b) Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aids or expend at least $4 million on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs.
Quote: Have 85 scholarships for FB and Basketball, meet the Title IX requirement for Women's Sports, offer 7 or 8 sports with full scholarships, have 4 more men's sports without scholarships. Money saved
First, its mostly soft money saved at the instutional level, since the marginal cost of providing scholarships to athletes who otherwise would have gone somewhere else is normally quite low, and second, it would at best be a strategy for an FCS football school ... do that, and you'll have trouble awarding the minimum required 200 grants in aids or spend $4m+ on grants in aid.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2015 01:26 AM by BruceMcF.)
11-19-2015 01:22 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-19-2015 01:22 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-17-2015 09:22 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  There is no conference rule saying you have to have scholarships for any of your sports. Look at the MAAC or Big East, I believe Providence VB is the only team in the conference that doesn't have scholarships.
But there are Division 1 and FBS rules on how scholarship minimums. For all division 1:

20.9.3.2a: A minimum of half of allowed scholarships in 14 sports, at least 7 of which must be women's sports, and if you use Indoor and Outdoor T&F & Cross Country as three sports, those must be 80%. (A cost-minimizing school will often be doing exactly that, with FB and men's BBall as their men's team sports (three men's team sports are only required if you do not play FB) so there are three men's Olympic sports where they would be giving men's scholarships.)

OR 20.9.3.2b: $1,459,433 in financial aid (at least half of which must be for women) in 2015-2016, exclusive of grants in football and basketball, provided the total is greater or equal to 38 full grants (at least 19 to women). (NB. the dollar figure adjusts annually).

OR 20.9.3.2c: A minimum of the equivalent of the award of 50 full grants, exclusive of grants to football and M&W Basketball.


And the FBS scholarship limits are higher (20.9.9.4): "(a) Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year during a rolling two-year period; and (b) Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aids or expend at least $4 million on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs.
Quote: Have 85 scholarships for FB and Basketball, meet the Title IX requirement for Women's Sports, offer 7 or 8 sports with full scholarships, have 4 more men's sports without scholarships. Money saved
First, its mostly soft money saved at the instutional level, since the marginal cost of providing scholarships to athletes who otherwise would have gone somewhere else is normally quite low, and second, it would at best be a strategy for an FCS football school ... do that, and you'll have trouble awarding the minimum required 200 grants in aids or spend $4m+ on grants in aid.

Excellent post, thanks.
11-19-2015 09:53 AM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-16-2015 06:00 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Mid-majors schools stay alive because of basketball: it's fairly low cost with big financial reward due to equal distribution. Football is good for the top 80-100 schools in Division 1, but the rest of the non-revenue sports that aren't consistent winners at most of the smaller schools need to go. Basketball is subsidizing cross country, eg., when the former could actually be making a small profit for the school if it was the only sport.

Or we could all be honest with ourselves and have the biggest programs from the biggest revenue sports split off and become semi-pro de jure instead of just de facto.
11-20-2015 04:42 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-20-2015 04:42 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(11-16-2015 06:00 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Mid-majors schools stay alive because of basketball: it's fairly low cost with big financial reward due to equal distribution. Football is good for the top 80-100 schools in Division 1, but the rest of the non-revenue sports that aren't consistent winners at most of the smaller schools need to go. Basketball is subsidizing cross country, eg., when the former could actually be making a small profit for the school if it was the only sport.

Or we could all be honest with ourselves and have the biggest programs from the biggest revenue sports split off and become semi-pro de jure instead of just de facto.

No, I'd rather keep them as amateur, as they currently are.
11-20-2015 10:24 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Financial Difficulties and the future of the Mid-Major
(11-16-2015 03:15 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I'll say this...I watched a little of games at Iowa State, Indiana and Miss State this past weekend. That P5 money is certainly building facilities...even if the stands aren't always full.

I don't know why you included Mississippi State it that.

Their stadium capacity is 61,337.

Their attendance has been:
62,531
61,574
60,866
61,651
61,168
62,435

So their only home game that wasn't more than sold out was Troy and they were still within 500 of selling out.
11-22-2015 03:49 AM
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