Michigan State football has had some very good seasons the past couple of years, but now that Narduzz is gone, they are fading back to who that program truly is.

1) Losing to Nebraska during their worst season going back decades (prior to Nov.).

2) The architect of the defense that allowed them to have some amazing seasons the past couple of years is gone and the drop off this season is very noticeable.

3) It took MSU to have one of those in a lifetime type of miracle plays to win the game against Michigan in his first season. Good luck beating Michigan moving forward.

4) OSU, PSU, and MI are all improving.

MSU was able to pull together some strong seasons while the rest of the conference was down, but that is changing now.

Mods, this account shouldn't be active. My account is nebraskfan. I accidentally logged into this one.

there we go...now I am in the right account.

Please delete or block the other account as this is the one that should be active.

interesting point about Michigan St. Kind of a similar point made about Ohio St and Harmon.

(11-11-2015 01:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  interesting point about Michigan St. Kind of a similar point made about Ohio St and Harmon.

Not relevant to OSU. OSU has been the top dog the entire time the B1G has been around. And they always will be.

MSU was bad for a long time, rose under Dantonio when the rest of the conference was down, and now that big brands are working their way back up, MSU is getting pushed back down.

(11-11-2015 01:59 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 01:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  interesting point about Michigan St. Kind of a similar point made about Ohio St and Harmon.

Not relevant to OSU. OSU has been the top dog the entire time the B1G has been around. And they always will be.

MSU was bad for a long time, rose under Dantonio when the rest of the conference was down, and now that big brands are working their way back up, MSU is getting pushed back down.

I don't know. MSU is #22 all time in college football wins. That's the #5 Big Ten school- behind only Michigan, Ohio St, Nebraska, and Penn St. They had a 10 win season before Dantonio as recently as 1999.

But the point is that a crucial part of the program leaves, and the replacement struggles to fill the shoes. Very similar.

(11-11-2015 02:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 01:59 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 01:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  interesting point about Michigan St. Kind of a similar point made about Ohio St and Harmon.

Not relevant to OSU. OSU has been the top dog the entire time the B1G has been around. And they always will be.

MSU was bad for a long time, rose under Dantonio when the rest of the conference was down, and now that big brands are working their way back up, MSU is getting pushed back down.

I don't know. MSU is #22 all time in college football wins. That's the #5 Big Ten school- behind only Michigan, Ohio St, Nebraska, and Penn St. They had a 10 win season before Dantonio as recently as 1999.

But the point is that a crucial part of the program leaves, and the replacement struggles to fill the shoes. Very similar.

Not to mention the amount of injuries and lack of veterans playing on the team. If this is a down year consider me a happy man.

Meh. The Michigan game was a wash that went in MSU's favor and the Nebraska game was a wash that didn't go their favor. They basically cancel each other out. I know this is heresy on a message board where last week's game is supposed to determine how everything is going to go for the next 20 years, but let's get a little perspective. I'd agree with DexterDevil - a team with 1 loss that still can get to the Big Ten title game (with a Rose Bowl berth on the line at worst and a CFP slot at best) having a "down year" is hardly down at all for 95% of the programs in America.

(11-11-2015 01:59 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 01:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  interesting point about Michigan St. Kind of a similar point made about Ohio St and Harmon.

Not relevant to OSU. OSU has been the top dog the entire time the B1G has been around. And they always will be.

MSU was bad for a long time, rose under Dantonio when the rest of the conference was down, and now that big brands are working their way back up, MSU is getting pushed back down.

I think Michigan was a little better than OSU from part of Earl Bruce then Cooper era at OSU, which was coincided with Bo/Moeller/Carr. Tressel got it back to OSU advantage though.

if they can get there it is ....double digit wins for MSU 6/7 years. That is really good.

As a PSU fan (with whom the Big Ten attempted a "rivalry" with Michigan State), I have mixed feelings about MSU. Over the past 20 years, the years they beat us were some of our worst. The years we beat them they were barely .500. It was unfortunate that the "rivalry" produced so few games of actual consequence.

I do think that they'll have to scratch and claw to keep that "4th best" spot in the Big Ten East in the future. OM and OSU currently have strong coaches...PSU is recovering from sanctions and is cleaning up in recruiting...and MSU just doesn't have the national brand to hit cruise control and expect the talent to flow in.

That said, I hope they don't fall off the radar completely any time soon. Any top heavy league isn't healthy and MSU/Wisconsin/Iowa are the teams that you want to be hanging around the top 25 most years to make the league solid.

I would love to have Michigan State's down years.

Knee-jerk reactions are the most annoying parts of sports conversations.

The real knee jerk reaction would be to assume the last couple to four years would be the norm for MSU. They got it going during a down time in the conference.

It took Harbaugh one season to take Hoke's 5-7 team to require MSU to have a miracle play to win. Harbaugh is just getting things started at Michigan. Then you have Ohio State. That right there moves them down to third in their own division. Then you have PSU still working their way up from sanctions and improving recrutiing. Right there makes them 4th in their own division. That is what the norm will be from them over the next 20 years unless they can some how convince the B1G offices to move them to the West where they could be a regular top 3 divisional placement program.

Northwestern is always known to have that one strong season every so many years. This is one of those years. Wisky isn't as good right now even during one of their better runs in school history on the defensive side of the ball.

As long as Michigan St gets good QB's they're going to be fine.

Most schools would like to have Michigan State's "problems".

MSU is a good program with a good coach and tough kids. It will be fine.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they are having a down year. However, they are still winning and will likely finish with 10-11 wins yet again! Now, whether or not they are "lucky" to be where they are this season or are "tough and gritty" is another question.

(11-12-2015 12:54 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  The real knee jerk reaction would be to assume the last couple to four years would be the norm for MSU. They got it going during a down time in the conference.

It took Harbaugh one season to take Hoke's 5-7 team to require MSU to have a miracle play to win. Harbaugh is just getting things started at Michigan. Then you have Ohio State. That right there moves them down to third in their own division. Then you have PSU still working their way up from sanctions and improving recrutiing. Right there makes them 4th in their own division. That is what the norm will be from them over the next 20 years unless they can some how convince the B1G offices to move them to the West where they could be a regular top 3 divisional placement program.

Northwestern is always known to have that one strong season every so many years. This is one of those years. Wisky isn't as good right now even during one of their better runs in school history on the defensive side of the ball.

The divisions will be fine when we move to four divisions or....when we don't have divisions.

To be fair to Michigan State, this was a very injury intense year and I think Dantonio is one of the best coaches in the country. That said, he's getting older and their natural advantages are at best 4th in the division. There were a decent number of Michigan State fans on message boards who wanted to be in the west when they were debating divisions and some even if it meant not playing Michigan every year. That would have probably made it more likely the Spartans could maintain their current spot.

(11-14-2015 09:20 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  To be fair to Michigan State, this was a very injury intense year and I think Dantonio is one of the best coaches in the country. That said, he's getting older and their natural advantages are at best 4th in the division. There were a decent number of Michigan State fans on message boards who wanted to be in the west when they were debating divisions and some even if it meant not playing Michigan every year. That would have probably made it more likely the Spartans could maintain their current spot.

Not to mention our out of state recruiting mostly comes from Illinois.

After Legends and Leaders took so much criticism, the presidents went for the simple east/west alignment. While anything with Michigan in division was superior in my mind, I really think they took the easy way out rather than the right one.The west has several programs that have risen up, but Illinois in the only fairly decent recruiting state with its tams in the west while the east has several at or better than it. Meanwhile, the newbies Rutgers and Maryland have good local recruiting, but are going to have problems rising when in a division with so many traditional powers.

I think the inner/outer divisions would have solved a lot (Maryland, Rutgers, and Penn State with Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota). I know there were issues with them too (the inner being weaker in the middle tier), but long term I think they would have been best for all parties.