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Virginia beach arena moves forward
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ODU2K1 Online
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Post: #41
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 02:45 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  It's OK is you're arguing. I don't fully get the ramifications of the convention center vis a vis a basketball tournament or a concert or having a team play there 81 times a year if it comes to that. I thought Town Center VB would be close enough to center hub of HR and not unapproachable from the peninsula that it would be a major, major addition to that "downtown." I didn't have a parcel of land picked out. It also might force them to do something with that god-awful Independence Blvd cluster-eff off 264

Convention facilities at conference tournaments are very nice to have. The CAA used the Richmond Convention Center a bunch when we had to make our annual hajj up 64. I have also seen the NCAA use the convention facilities extensively when the NCAA Tournament has been at the Greensboro Coliseum. It is not a must have but it really does add to to the package when bidding things like a NCAA Regional, big conference tournaments, or dare I say and NHL or NBA All-Star Game.

With all that said I still hate the location of the arena in VB. Town Center would have been a much better fit from a logistics standpoint with a critical mass of restaurants, bars, and multiple ground approaches to an arena site. Of course that is not going to have the same impact with respect to filling hotel rooms at the oceanfront and really that is what is driving the bus.
11-11-2015 04:00 PM
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jumpshooter Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
Like I said, done now. Thanks
11-11-2015 04:10 PM
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mac Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
Town Center would not work for an arena location. At this very second, 4pm the traffic is backed up in every which direction. Add in 15,000 more folks and forget it. They already have 4 lanes in all directions. Plus, this new location is what, just another 6 or so miles down the interstate anyway.These folks must figure there is a tie in with the convention center next door. Or they are just wasting 200 million!

I see a nightmare getting to this place for all of us who don't live in VB. And maybe they are fine with that. I don't ever go to the VB amphitheater and they sure don't seem to miss me from what I can tell! Traffic and parking are horrible there. I love the Portsmouth amphitheater where I can take the ferry over right to front of it. But of course it is a small venue, which I like. Maybe one day the light rail will go right to the front door of this new joint but I'll be dead by then probably.
11-11-2015 04:13 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
We looked it up the other day for another reason. It's 12 miles from town center to ocean front.
11-11-2015 04:58 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
Military Circle is dead, It's very geographically centered. I think I read that something is going in there but location wise it's perfect. But, the traffic is as bad as the Town Center!
11-11-2015 05:32 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 05:32 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Military Circle is dead, It's very geographically centered. I think I read that something is going in there but location wise it's perfect. But, the traffic is as bad as the Town Center!

The only thing I know of going on by Military Circle is the Outlet Mall.
That however is NE of the mall.

Do you have a link for something else going on in that area?

I remember:
ITT stadium study for class project
http://www.pilotonline.com/business/stud...61e2e.html

Norfolk to buy some of the Military Circle Property
http://www.pilotonline.com/business/real...215b1.html


I haven't followed the news for that location since this summer.
11-11-2015 09:46 PM
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Post: #47
Re: RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 09:41 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Two things wrong with the VB Arena: the builder borrowing $200 million from China; the location. Took us 1:45 to get from Williamsburg to the Ted last Thursday, how much longer would it have taken to get to the oceanfront.

The lunacy of this area, and I'm now convinced it will never change, is the inability to look out for the welfare of ALL of HR's citizens. Build the damn thing somewhere people can get to without going to the tip of the cul-de-sac.

And a note or two the the Pilot: There are no NBA or NHL "tournaments." A city either has a team or it doesn't, and that team is either in the playoffs or it isn't.

Why would it be in the interest of a private developer to "look out for the welfare" of people in Williamsburg? Its time to face it, VB is the heart and economic engine of Hampton Roads, even if it isn't close to you. The location makes perfect sense, aside from your personal convenience. It is being built in the epicenter of entertainment for its region, just like every other stadium that is successful. There are only three places it could reasonably be, The Oceanfront, Town Center, and Downtown Norfolk. Any of those three would be fine with me, but Norfolk didn't want to pursue a new stadium and VB/developers decided the convention center made more sense than Town Center. Nowhere that is convenient to people on the peninsula or farther makes any sense at all. Why would you make it more difficult for the 1 million people in VB/ Norfolk and the other million who visit VB every year to get there so that a few people from the peninsula can get there more easily?
11-11-2015 09:54 PM
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Post: #48
Re: RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 05:32 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Military Circle is dead, It's very geographically centered. I think I read that something is going in there but location wise it's perfect. But, the traffic is as bad as the Town Center!

Stadiums don't get built in places that aren't downtowns or similar anymore. They learned their lesson in the eighties when one stadium after another failed because it was not in a high energy destination location. These things need to be part of an entire experience and a place like Military Circle doesn't provide that.
11-11-2015 09:59 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 01:13 PM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 01:09 PM)Cr8n Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 11:48 AM)mac Wrote:  How come no Norfolk in your "spreadsheet" ?
Derp forgot. Would definitely take Southside over 50% then.


Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Portsmouth?
West of the Elizabeth, ptown and Suffolk are a different region. Easier for them to get to the Peninsula than VB


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11-11-2015 10:05 PM
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Monarch Homselr Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 09:46 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 05:32 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Military Circle is dead, It's very geographically centered. I think I read that something is going in there but location wise it's perfect. But, the traffic is as bad as the Town Center!

The only thing I know of going on by Military Circle is the Outlet Mall.
That however is NE of the mall.

Do you have a link for something else going on in that area?

I remember:
ITT stadium study for class project
http://www.pilotonline.com/business/stud...61e2e.html

Norfolk to buy some of the Military Circle Property
http://www.pilotonline.com/business/real...215b1.html


I haven't followed the news for that location since this summer.

The second link is what I was thinking. Haven't heard anything else!
11-11-2015 10:36 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
If they had put Colonial Downs in the more populated areas south of the HR Tunnel, that wouldn't be the eyesore and obvious waste of precious dollars that it currently is.

You have to put the large attractions where the people are. It just makes too much sense. Now getting the 7 cities to think about their mutual benefit is another story entirely. And I am going to be shocked to see the voters really support this community investment.
11-11-2015 10:59 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 10:59 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  If they had put Colonial Downs in the more populated areas south of the HR Tunnel, that wouldn't be the eyesore and obvious waste of precious dollars that it currently is.

You have to put the large attractions where the people are. It just makes too much sense. Now getting the 7 cities to think about their mutual benefit is another story entirely. And I am going to be shocked to see the voters really support this community investment.

If I'm not mistaken, this project is up to city council to vote on. If it gets 9 of 11 votes it will be a done deal. I just listened to a segment where Joel Rubin (hired by the arena developer as communications rep.) stated that VB has been setting aside TIF funds for years which will pay for the city's infrastructure. Unless there is a public outcry of massive proportions against this project I think it is going to happen.
11-11-2015 11:28 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 10:59 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  If they had put Colonial Downs in the more populated areas south of the HR Tunnel, that wouldn't be the eyesore and obvious waste of precious dollars that it currently is.

You have to put the large attractions where the people are. It just makes too much sense. Now getting the 7 cities to think about their mutual benefit is another story entirely. And I am going to be shocked to see the voters really support this community investment.

I agree that Norfolk/Virginia Beach are the best place, but we really are not one region. Even as an avid ODU fan, I simply can't make 90% of the weeknight basketball games. Wherever you put an arena, a significant portion of the area will not be going to regular events. Getting to the Oceanfront is over an hour trek for anyone in Porstmouth, Suffolk, or the Peninsula. Is it the best place? Possibly. But including Portsmouth, Suffolk, and the Peninsula as part of the same metro area is a bit deceiving and should probably end. You aren't going to get Newport News to pony up tax money to build something in Virginia Beach or Norfolk that doesn't really benefit those tax payers much. We would be no more likely to attend an even there than if it were in Richmond, which is about the same travel time when you factor in traffic. "7 Cities" is two regions, not one.
11-12-2015 08:19 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-11-2015 09:54 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 09:41 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Two things wrong with the VB Arena: the builder borrowing $200 million from China; the location. Took us 1:45 to get from Williamsburg to the Ted last Thursday, how much longer would it have taken to get to the oceanfront.

The lunacy of this area, and I'm now convinced it will never change, is the inability to look out for the welfare of ALL of HR's citizens. Build the damn thing somewhere people can get to without going to the tip of the cul-de-sac.

And a note or two the the Pilot: There are no NBA or NHL "tournaments." A city either has a team or it doesn't, and that team is either in the playoffs or it isn't.

Why would it be in the interest of a private developer to "look out for the welfare" of people in Williamsburg? Its time to face it, VB is the heart and economic engine of Hampton Roads, even if it isn't close to you. The location makes perfect sense, aside from your personal convenience. It is being built in the epicenter of entertainment for its region, just like every other stadium that is successful. There are only three places it could reasonably be, The Oceanfront, Town Center, and Downtown Norfolk. Any of those three would be fine with me, but Norfolk didn't want to pursue a new stadium and VB/developers decided the convention center made more sense than Town Center. Nowhere that is convenient to people on the peninsula or farther makes any sense at all. Why would you make it more difficult for the 1 million people in VB/ Norfolk and the other million who visit VB every year to get there so that a few people from the peninsula can get there more easily?

Not sure you read the post where I said Town Center was a preferable location to me. I'm not looking out for Williamsburg; I like where I live and am willing to go to Norfolk 30 times a year for events at ODU, Chrysler, Naro, etc. I do to Town Center less often, but still go.
11-12-2015 09:35 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-12-2015 08:19 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 10:59 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  If they had put Colonial Downs in the more populated areas south of the HR Tunnel, that wouldn't be the eyesore and obvious waste of precious dollars that it currently is.

You have to put the large attractions where the people are. It just makes too much sense. Now getting the 7 cities to think about their mutual benefit is another story entirely. And I am going to be shocked to see the voters really support this community investment.

I agree that Norfolk/Virginia Beach are the best place, but we really are not one region. Even as an avid ODU fan, I simply can't make 90% of the weeknight basketball games. Wherever you put an arena, a significant portion of the area will not be going to regular events. Getting to the Oceanfront is over an hour trek for anyone in Porstmouth, Suffolk, or the Peninsula. Is it the best place? Possibly. But including Portsmouth, Suffolk, and the Peninsula as part of the same metro area is a bit deceiving and should probably end. You aren't going to get Newport News to pony up tax money to build something in Virginia Beach or Norfolk that doesn't really benefit those tax payers much. We would be no more likely to attend an even there than if it were in Richmond, which is about the same travel time when you factor in traffic. "7 Cities" is two regions, not one.

Why is it deceiving?
The metro area is massive land wise.

Per Wikipedia it is
Hampton Roads: 526.8 sq mi

For comparison:

New York City: 468.9 sq mi
NYC Metro: 13,318 sq mi

Houston Texas (City): 627.8 sq mi
Houston Texas Metro: 10,062 sq mi

Charlotte NC (City): 297.7 sq mi

Hell, my real-estate buddies consider San Diego / LA to be or soon to be a single metro area.

I can understand if you are debating as to what Hampton Roads really covers.

There are several lists that you can find defining our region.
The most common is the 7 cities:
Chesapeake
Hampton
Newport News
Norfolk
Portsmouth
Suffolk
Virginia Beach.

You can argue that HR does or does not include as far out as Williamsburg, Franklin, Isle of Wight.

Personally, I don't think I would make it out to the new Arena. I don't like going out to the beach area.
The food is over-priced, the quality is usually ho-hum, and it's way too busy in the summer for my liking.
Then again, I don't understand the draw to Town Center either.

So having said that, I think the Ted will be fine.
In, fact once Patriots Crossing is complete there might be even more people making it to the Ted for events as it would be an easier drive for a lot of people.
11-12-2015 09:38 AM
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Blue_Trombone Online
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Post: #56
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
Is Patriot's Crossing a for-sure thing? Not seeing too much from Google.
11-12-2015 09:50 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-12-2015 09:35 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 09:54 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 09:41 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Two things wrong with the VB Arena: the builder borrowing $200 million from China; the location. Took us 1:45 to get from Williamsburg to the Ted last Thursday, how much longer would it have taken to get to the oceanfront.

The lunacy of this area, and I'm now convinced it will never change, is the inability to look out for the welfare of ALL of HR's citizens. Build the damn thing somewhere people can get to without going to the tip of the cul-de-sac.

And a note or two the the Pilot: There are no NBA or NHL "tournaments." A city either has a team or it doesn't, and that team is either in the playoffs or it isn't.

Why would it be in the interest of a private developer to "look out for the welfare" of people in Williamsburg? Its time to face it, VB is the heart and economic engine of Hampton Roads, even if it isn't close to you. The location makes perfect sense, aside from your personal convenience. It is being built in the epicenter of entertainment for its region, just like every other stadium that is successful. There are only three places it could reasonably be, The Oceanfront, Town Center, and Downtown Norfolk. Any of those three would be fine with me, but Norfolk didn't want to pursue a new stadium and VB/developers decided the convention center made more sense than Town Center. Nowhere that is convenient to people on the peninsula or farther makes any sense at all. Why would you make it more difficult for the 1 million people in VB/ Norfolk and the other million who visit VB every year to get there so that a few people from the peninsula can get there more easily?

Not sure you read the post where I said Town Center was a preferable location to me. I'm not looking out for Williamsburg; I like where I live and am willing to go to Norfolk 30 times a year for events at ODU, Chrysler, Naro, etc. I do to Town Center less often, but still go.

I don't think it makes a huge difference between Town Center and The Oceanfront. Really wherever they can build the best infrastructure is the difference maker for those two places. They are close enough that the traffic nightmare at Town Center could make it take longer to get to than The Oceanfront. I live in Downtown Norfolk and regularly drive to Hilltop instead of Town Center for shopping needs because it is such a pain to maneuver around Town Center.
11-12-2015 09:56 AM
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Monarchist13 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-12-2015 09:50 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Is Patriot's Crossing a for-sure thing? Not seeing too much from Google.

Nope. It's still in the study/survey phase;
http://hamptonroadscrossingstudy.org/
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2015 10:09 AM by Monarchist13.)
11-12-2015 10:07 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
(11-12-2015 10:07 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 09:50 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Is Patriot's Crossing a for-sure thing? Not seeing too much from Google.

Nope. It's still in the study/survey phase;
http://hamptonroadscrossingstudy.org/

Looks like the decision won't be made until 2017, and then probably a couple of years until the thing is actually built. Hopefully Candidate 9 is chosen, since that seems like it would be the best way to alleviate congestion overall. You think it'd have a toll on it?

Also, if it keeps that timeline and is made by 2019, it coincidentally coincides with the opening of our new stadium. Gives fans more options to get home.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2015 10:31 AM by Blue_Trombone.)
11-12-2015 10:31 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Virginia beach arena moves forward
A metro area is typically a city with its surrounding suburbs. Here you have two cities... Norfolk and Newport News/Hampton. Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are essentially Norfolk suburbs. Yorktown, Poquoson, Gloucester, Williamsburg, Isle of Wight, and much of Suffolk are Peninsula suburbs. I know how wiki, census, etc defines us. Just saying it is incorrect. The cities don't act as a region because it isn't a region. Other metros get more cooperation because it is to their benefit. Most of the people living in the Houston suburbs work, do business, and spend a lot of their time in Houston. So, if the city wants a new amenity, the taxpayers in the suburbs are more willing to support. That just isn't the case here. If it weren't for ODU sports, I would never step a foot in Norfolk in an average year. We usually do an early fall weekend in Virginia Beach after tourism dies down, but the weather and water are still nice. Other than that, we don't step foot in Virginia Beach in an average year. If the VB arena gets an NBA team, I'll probably go to a few games and likely be a fan in a less active capacity, but my point is you aren't going to get cooperation between the two regions. Not enough skin in the game.
11-12-2015 10:38 AM
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