The thing that gives ND a potential edge is the loss was on the road, but yeah, a loss is a loss. And it's not like they've been blowing everybody they've played out. I understand ratings, but there is really no rhyme or logic to put them in in that scenario. It's not even a discussion as far as I'm concerned.

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

I don't think it is disrespect as much as just trying to figure out the committee. Last year the committee put a one loss team ahead of the undefeated and defending national champions in the final poll. So it's not a question of respect as much as figuring out which teams might be in a similar position.

(11-09-2015 07:14 AM)goofus Wrote:  There is some logic to taking a BigTen or Big12 champion instead of a 1-loss Notre Dame, even if Notre Dame is considered the better team.

It doesn't appear that way right now, but the way things will play out, Notre Dame BADLY needed FSU to beat Clemson this past weekend. Notre Dame needs to beat out two of the P5 champs. They get to play Stanford so that takes care of the PAC. One down, one to go.

But, if Clemson wins out the ACC is in. If a B1G champ is unbeaten - Iowa or OSU - they are in. If Alabama or Florida wins out, the SEC is surely in.

And, if the Big 12 round-robin produces an unbeaten champ, they are in, and Notre Dame is out.

Notre Dame needs for the Big 12 round-robin coming up to produce a champ with at least a loss. TCU losing to OK State helped. They now need Baylor and OK State to pick up a loss as well.

(11-09-2015 10:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:14 AM)goofus Wrote:  There is some logic to taking a BigTen or Big12 champion instead of a 1-loss Notre Dame, even if Notre Dame is considered the better team.

It doesn't appear that way right now, but the way things will play out, Notre Dame BADLY needed FSU to beat Clemson this past weekend. Notre Dame needs to beat out two of the P5 champs. They get to play Stanford so that takes care of the PAC. One down, one to go.

But, if Clemson wins out the ACC is in. If a B1G champ is unbeaten - Iowa or OSU - they are in. If Alabama or Florida wins out, the SEC is surely in.

And, if the Big 12 round-robin produces an unbeaten champ, they are in, and Notre Dame is out.

Notre Dame needs for the Big 12 round-robin coming up to produce a champ with at least a loss. TCU losing to OK State helped. They now need Baylor and OK State to pick up a loss as well.

I agree with this thinking about what is good for ND, although TCU losing didn't really change things very much as far as the Big 12 is concerned. Since both were undefeated, someone had to lose, and the scenarios after that were the same regardless of who won. I suppose it could be argued that TCU is still the better team, but pretty hard to do that after the results of that game. OSU is being underrated right now, I think. That's a tough place to win, and their advantage of having all three games against the other top Big 12 teams at home is under appreciated.

ND (and the other teams hoping for against an undefeated team) really needs an OU upset over Baylor on the road (or an OSU upset at the hands of ISU in OSU's last road game). If Baylor and OSU both win this weekend, suddenly the chances at an undefeated Big 12 team go way up. Sure OU and TCU could have something still to say about it, but this is a big weekend for teams needing a mixed up Big 12.

(11-08-2015 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  who has Iowa beat? right now, 3 teams getting votes in the coaches poll that just came out- Northwester, Wisconsin, and Pittsburgh. Also beat only 5 winning teams.
Stanford has beat 3 teams getting votes in the coaches poll- USC, UCLA, and Wash St.

any argument using the coaches poll has no credibility

The Coaches poll needs to die

(11-09-2015 10:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:14 AM)goofus Wrote:  There is some logic to taking a BigTen or Big12 champion instead of a 1-loss Notre Dame, even if Notre Dame is considered the better team.

It doesn't appear that way right now, but the way things will play out, Notre Dame BADLY needed FSU to beat Clemson this past weekend. Notre Dame needs to beat out two of the P5 champs. They get to play Stanford so that takes care of the PAC. One down, one to go.

But, if Clemson wins out the ACC is in. If a B1G champ is unbeaten - Iowa or OSU - they are in. If Alabama or Florida wins out, the SEC is surely in.

And, if the Big 12 round-robin produces an unbeaten champ, they are in, and Notre Dame is out.

Notre Dame needs for the Big 12 round-robin coming up to produce a champ with at least a loss. TCU losing to OK State helped. They now need Baylor and OK State to pick up a loss as well.

It's not out of the realm for the SEC champ to have 2 losses....

Florida, Alabama, and LSU aren't out of the woods yet

(11-09-2015 10:34 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 10:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:14 AM)goofus Wrote:  There is some logic to taking a BigTen or Big12 champion instead of a 1-loss Notre Dame, even if Notre Dame is considered the better team.

It doesn't appear that way right now, but the way things will play out, Notre Dame BADLY needed FSU to beat Clemson this past weekend. Notre Dame needs to beat out two of the P5 champs. They get to play Stanford so that takes care of the PAC. One down, one to go.

But, if Clemson wins out the ACC is in. If a B1G champ is unbeaten - Iowa or OSU - they are in. If Alabama or Florida wins out, the SEC is surely in.

And, if the Big 12 round-robin produces an unbeaten champ, they are in, and Notre Dame is out.

Notre Dame needs for the Big 12 round-robin coming up to produce a champ with at least a loss. TCU losing to OK State helped. They now need Baylor and OK State to pick up a loss as well.

I agree with this thinking about what is good for ND, although TCU losing didn't really change things very much as far as the Big 12 is concerned. Since both were undefeated, someone had to lose, and the scenarios after that were the same regardless of who won. I suppose it could be argued that TCU is still the better team, but pretty hard to do that after the results of that game. OSU is being underrated right now, I think. That's a tough place to win, and their advantage of having all three games against the other top Big 12 teams at home is under appreciated.

ND (and the other teams hoping for against an undefeated team) really needs an OU upset over Baylor on the road (or an OSU upset at the hands of ISU in OSU's last road game). If Baylor and OSU both win this weekend, suddenly the chances at an undefeated Big 12 team go way up. Sure OU and TCU could have something still to say about it, but this is a big weekend for teams needing a mixed up Big 12.

From an ND perspective, there is also still a slight chance the SEC could get aced out. If Alabama somehow loses to Mississippi State, the SEC would be imperiled. Because any SEC champ that then emerged, including a one-loss LSU or Florida, would likely be compared unfavorably to Notre Dame.

The SEC isn't out of the woods yet.

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

(11-09-2015 11:18 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

Iowa has a weak SOS that is only going to get weaker with a light finish to the schedule. If they have some close unimpressive, perhaps "lucky" wins down the stretch against that light schedule and none of the other major players lose down the stretch (and in fact have major quality wins), it could get tight. But the reality is that the major players will have losses and Iowa for practical purposes is in if they win out since there will be upsets somewhere.

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

I'm not sure we can go that far. The committee certainly sent the message last year that they're not just going to put the undefeated teams at the top, but it was an easy message to send because they didn't actually leave the undefeated team out of the playoff. Actually excluding an undefeated P5 champ would be a more drastic step.

But, remember, 2014 FSU didn't have a weak SOS. The knock against them was having a lot of close games. Their non-con schedule included three P5 teams (Ok St, Notre Dame, Florida) and they played two teams in their league that won 10 games; no team with zero or one P5 non-con opponents should be arguing that their schedule is tougher than 2014 FSU.

(11-09-2015 11:57 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

I'm not sure we can go that far. The committee certainly sent the message last year that they're not just going to put the undefeated teams at the top, but it was an easy message to send because they didn't actually leave the undefeated team out of the playoff. Actually excluding an undefeated P5 champ would be a more drastic step.

But, remember, 2014 FSU didn't have a weak SOS. The knock against them was having a lot of close games. Their non-con schedule included three P5 teams (Ok St, Notre Dame, Florida) and they played two teams in their league that won 10 games; no team with zero or one P5 non-con opponents should be arguing that their schedule is tougher than 2014 FSU.

I don't think we can go that farther either, but it certainly raises the question. If the Big 10 and Big 12 are undefeated last year, either an undefeated champ gets left out or one of their end of season top 2 teams.

I just guess we will just have to wait for the magical eleventh hour when Baylor or Iowa magically jump from 6/7 to #4, just like Baylor magically jumped TCU one they applied the head to head last year. I'm hoping the Big 12 loses, but yeah, expect the committee to start bumping up Iowa/Ok St sooner than later.

(11-09-2015 11:57 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

I'm not sure we can go that far. The committee certainly sent the message last year that they're not just going to put the undefeated teams at the top, but it was an easy message to send because they didn't actually leave the undefeated team out of the playoff. Actually excluding an undefeated P5 champ would be a more drastic step.

But, remember, 2014 FSU didn't have a weak SOS. The knock against them was having a lot of close games. Their non-con schedule included three P5 teams (Ok St, Notre Dame, Florida) and they played two teams in their league that won 10 games; no team with zero or one P5 non-con opponents should be arguing that their schedule is tougher than 2014 FSU.

Furthermore, you'd be crazy to see the committee push out an undefeated defending National Championship team riding a gigantic 20+ something win streak....

Something like that, and you'd see the committee quickly replaced with rankings again....

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:18 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

Iowa has a weak SOS that is only going to get weaker with a light finish to the schedule. If they have some close unimpressive, perhaps "lucky" wins down the stretch against that light schedule and none of the other major players lose down the stretch (and in fact have major quality wins), it could get tight. But the reality is that the major players will have losses and Iowa for practical purposes is in if they win out since there will be upsets somewhere.

No, Iowa does not have a weak schedule. You keep saying this but it isn't true and the numbers say so. It isn't a strong schedule but it isn't a weak one either, so keep on trying to pass off that ignorance as truth but its not the truth. In fact they had a pretty strong OCC schedule in comparison to many others.

Just because TCU got pulled out doesn't mean Iowa will if they are undefeated with a win over OSU in the CCG.

(11-09-2015 11:18 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 12:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Only thing is, the committee doesn't look at undefeated team vs 1 loss team as anywhere near an absolute as others do. If anything is crystal clear right now, it's that.

Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

Yep, that is what I have been saying and is the reason why Iowa's ranking right now isn't all that big of a deal to me. I think I put them at 8th on mine in regards to where I think they will be placed tomorrow night. No big deal.

I listen to some of the pundits on the radio and almost laugh. They talk about all these undefeated teams that can be left out. The notion that these rankings are very fluid at this point seemed a foreign concept to them.

(11-09-2015 06:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:18 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

Iowa has a weak SOS that is only going to get weaker with a light finish to the schedule. If they have some close unimpressive, perhaps "lucky" wins down the stretch against that light schedule and none of the other major players lose down the stretch (and in fact have major quality wins), it could get tight. But the reality is that the major players will have losses and Iowa for practical purposes is in if they win out since there will be upsets somewhere.

No, Iowa does not have a weak schedule. You keep saying this but it isn't true and the numbers say so. It isn't a strong schedule but it isn't a weak one either, so keep on trying to pass off that ignorance as truth but its not the truth. In fact they had a pretty strong OCC schedule in comparison to many others.

Just because TCU got pulled out doesn't mean Iowa will if they are undefeated with a win over OSU in the CCG.

Iowa will have a weak schedule after the next 3 games. But for now, they are better than most and the committee does not seem to acknowledge that.

(11-09-2015 06:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 11:18 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:41 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-09-2015 07:29 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Agree with this. One of the better aspects of the committee relative to the polls.

I do think that the only currently undefeated P5 team that could get left out is Iowa because of their SOS and lack of impressive wins. They will have the Big 10 championship win, though so I bet they do get in when it comes down to it even if ND wins out.

Their SoS isn't even all that bad, its just a talking point that people keep repeating. Their impressive win will come in the CCG. Since you are talking about them as undefeated then you are talking about them winning the CCG.

So really this is just more Iowa disrespect, it has nothing to do with schedule or wins. Even talking heads on ESPN are starting to say the same thing. People aren't giving respect to that team simply because it's Iowa.

That's fine though, disrespect is fuel. It helps keep the chip on the shoulder.

It doesn't really matter for Iowa....win out and you're in. Iowa controls their own destiny

Last year an undefeated FSU was #3 with with actually two one loss teams above them. What if the Big 12 and Big 10 champs were undefeated with better wins and SOS? Is FSU left out? That's what the committee seems to be indicating. And if undefeated, defending champ FSU could be left out, then anyone could be left out. SOS and how you win matters.

Iowa has a weak SOS that is only going to get weaker with a light finish to the schedule. If they have some close unimpressive, perhaps "lucky" wins down the stretch against that light schedule and none of the other major players lose down the stretch (and in fact have major quality wins), it could get tight. But the reality is that the major players will have losses and Iowa for practical purposes is in if they win out since there will be upsets somewhere.

No, Iowa does not have a weak schedule. You keep saying this but it isn't true and the numbers say so. It isn't a strong schedule but it isn't a weak one either, so keep on trying to pass off that ignorance as truth but its not the truth. In fact they had a pretty strong OCC schedule in comparison to many others.

Iowa's schedule isn't weak. But up to the CCG, it is compared to the other B1G contenders. They all have to play the other top teams in the conference while Iowa skates by. In fact, it's weak in that sense compared to other conferences as well.

The other top B1G teams all have to run the gauntlet of playing other top B1G teams to make the CCG. Even in the SEC, where the SEC West is much stronger than the East, Florida at least had to play two good West teams, LSU and Ole Miss, on the way. All the top Big 12 teams are playing each other over the next few weeks.

I leave out the ACC and PAC because, well, they only have like one or two good teams. But even in the ACC, Clemson did have to play FSU, and they played Notre Dame.

Nobody but Iowa is dodging so many good teams in their conference before their CCG.

Look at last week's CFP rankings. ALL of the other top 11 teams had games left against other teams in the top 20, BEFORE their CCG. Eight of them face other teams that are also in the top 11.

Iowa? None.

Plus, Iowa hasn't looked impressive in most of their wins against the good teams on their schedule. They squeaked by Wisconsin 10-6 after Wisconsin fumbled the ball on the Iowa 1-yard line in the 4th quarter. They needed a 58 yard (!!) field goal at the buzzer to beat a Pitt team that others have handled. Their only 'impressive' win was a demolition of #21 Northwestern, but Michigan smashed Northwestern even worse and they aren't making the playoffs.

Is Iowa going to make the CFP if they win out? Sure they will. But it would have been nice to see them play Michigan, Ohio State, or Michigan State before their CCG.