If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

(11-05-2015 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

Virginia Tech would hate it. They would get Wake, who I think is their closest opponent though.

Also, in the unlikely event Pitt vs Miami or UVA vs VT play in the title, it would be a rematch of the season finale, which is specifically being avoided.

(11-05-2015 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

Who will be NC State's crossover...?

And in a totally unrelated question, what are you planning on doing with the Textile Bowl.

Despite Kaplony's objections, until I see in print that officials from both schools no longer see this game as important, then you'll have to figure out how to have NC State play both UNC and Clemson.

Good luck.

And there will be permanent crossovers because, good luck with not having an annual UNC/NC State game. Same with the Textile Bowl (again, until I see from Clemson and NC State ADs that this game no longer matters.)

(11-05-2015 04:18 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

Who will be NC State's crossover...?

And in a totally unrelated question, what are you planning on doing with the Textile Bowl.

Despite Kaplony's objections, until I see in print that officials from both schools no longer see this game as important, then you'll have to figure out how to have NC State play both UNC and Clemson.

Good luck.

And there will be permanent crossovers because, good luck with not having an annual UNC/NC State game. Same with the Textile Bowl (again, until I see from Clemson and NC State ADs that this game no longer matters.)

Why would you not have an annual UNC/NC State game? I assume you always would, just as I assume you would always have a Virginia/Va Tech game every year. As for the Clemson AD, I imagine he would have to weigh whether he would rather have Georgia Tech every year and NC State every third year, or whether he would prefer it to be the other way around. I'm pretty sure what NC State would prefer, but I'm not nearly as sure about Clemson.

And who knows? Maybe Debbie Yow would weigh the possibility State could win its new division and have a puncher's chance at a conference title - which they haven't had in nearly two generations - against not playing Clemson every year. By the way, are textiles a major part of either state's economy these days

Bottom line, no matter how you configure divisions, once you are too big for a full round robin somebody is always going to face a tradeoff they would prefer they didn't have to make.

So this is how yu want it, correct?

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Louisville

Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

(11-05-2015 05:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 04:18 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

Who will be NC State's crossover...?

And in a totally unrelated question, what are you planning on doing with the Textile Bowl.

Despite Kaplony's objections, until I see in print that officials from both schools no longer see this game as important, then you'll have to figure out how to have NC State play both UNC and Clemson.

Good luck.

And there will be permanent crossovers because, good luck with not having an annual UNC/NC State game. Same with the Textile Bowl (again, until I see from Clemson and NC State ADs that this game no longer matters.)

Why would you not have an annual UNC/NC State game? I assume you always would, just as I assume you would always have a Virginia/Va Tech game every year. As for the Clemson AD, I imagine he would have to weigh whether he would rather have Georgia Tech every year and NC State every third year, or whether he would prefer it to be the other way around. I'm pretty sure what NC State would prefer, but I'm not nearly as sure about Clemson.

And who knows? Maybe Debbie Yow would weigh the possibility State could win its new division and have a puncher's chance at a conference title - which they haven't had in nearly two generations - against not playing Clemson every year. By the way, are textiles a major part of either state's economy these days

Bottom line, no matter how you configure divisions, once you are too big for a full round robin somebody is always going to face a tradeoff they would prefer they didn't have to make.

Clemson absolutely must play FSU, GT and NCSU every year, IMO. Do it this way.
North
BC
Cuse
Pitt
Louisville
VT
WF
Duke
South
UNC
NCSU
UVa
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

UVa and VT play OOC in the "rivalry beyond the standings" or some other catchy slogan. Same could be done for the Tobacco Road schools. It's not too hard just because none of the NC or VA schools have a permanent OOC rival. VT and Louisville will carry the north most years. VT may not be crazy about this but there are no permanent crossover rivals, so you play the other schools much more often.

There, I solved the division riddle. Call Swofford and tell him to mail my consultant fee.

(11-05-2015 04:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  If deregulation doesn't pass (or maybe even if it does), I wonder if this change in division alignment would address enough enough of members' concerns to be worthy of consideration.

What if Florida State and Clemson switched divisions with Virginia Tech and Pitt? Essentially, you would have a pretty logical split based on geography, with a nice overlap in the middle (Virginia and NC). Granted, you would lose the current balance in strength between the Atlantic and Coastal, but so what? Who says they have to be balanced? Imbalance doesn't seem to have hurt the SEC.

I would suggest in this configuration that there be no permanent crossover games in conference. If UNC and NC State, Duke and Wake Forest, and Virginia and Virginia Tech want to play every year, let them do so OOC in years when they aren't scheduled to meet in conference. Schedule the Notre Dame rotation so these schools only play the Irish in years when they have their in-state rival as a conference game, so they always have at least 9 games against P5 opponents, but don't have to have 10 unless they want to.

In this alignment, UNC, UVa, Duke and Ga Tech get to stay together (which they seem to want), FSU and Clemson get more regional opponents and an improved SOS, and the absence of permanent crossovers increases the frequency with which everybody gets to play the schools outside their division. The northern schools get to reestablish annual rivalries, and have an improved chance of earning a spot in the CCG.

What's the downside?

Exposure in Florida.

Why are people discussion divisions? Divisions? Stay division-less, my friends (but drink good beer, and not shite XX).

Status quo.

The geography ship sunk years ago. I'd like to see seeded divisions on a 2 year cycle. 2 years allows for a home-home series with each team. 6 divisional games leaves 2 additional conference games. It should be easy to schedule a game against your conference rival if they don't happen to be in your division. The higher seeds would have a progressively stronger schedule, hopefully resulting in 1 vs 2 in the CCG.

(11-05-2015 07:42 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Why are people discussion divisions? Divisions? Stay division-less, my friends (but drink good beer, and not shite XX).

I'm with You on this Marge !

(11-05-2015 09:34 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Status quo.

quo vadis?

I'm still a fan of the 3-5 model. No divisions, everyone has 3 permanent rivals, then 5 rotating games with the rest of the conference. Best 2 teams play in the championship game.

Leave the divisions where they are and go to a 9th conference game.

(11-05-2015 05:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So this is how yu want it, correct?

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Louisville

Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Move WF and NC St below and add Virginia, ND and Texas above.

(11-06-2015 08:49 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 05:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So this is how yu want it, correct?

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Louisville

Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Move WF and NC St below and add Virginia, ND and Texas above.

Boston College
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville
Texas

North Carolina State
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Looks good.

(11-06-2015 09:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 08:49 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 05:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So this is how yu want it, correct?

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Louisville

Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Move WF and NC St below and add Virginia, ND and Texas above.

Boston College
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville
Texas

North Carolina State
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Looks good.

Move Miami north, Virgina South and Now it's Old Big East + Texas vs Old ACC !

(11-06-2015 09:00 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 08:49 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 05:43 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So this is how yu want it, correct?

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Louisville

Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Move WF and NC St below and add Virginia, ND and Texas above.

Boston College
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Louisville
Texas

North Carolina State
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU
Miami

Looks good.

I would switch Miami & Virginia.

(11-06-2015 07:21 AM)TopperCard Wrote:  I'm still a fan of the 3-5 model. No divisions, everyone has 3 permanent rivals, then 5 rotating games with the rest of the conference. Best 2 teams play in the championship game.

I prefer this as well.

(11-06-2015 09:09 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 07:21 AM)TopperCard Wrote:  I'm still a fan of the 3-5 model. No divisions, everyone has 3 permanent rivals, then 5 rotating games with the rest of the conference. Best 2 teams play in the championship game.

I prefer this as well.

I also prefer this, assuming deregulation passes. But if it doesn't, I think what every attempt to come up with a different divisional alignment that would make more schools happy shows is that the current alignment is the one that works best for the most people.

What do you know. The schools chose what they want (even if some fans don't). Imagine that.