IMO, UNC needs to get the best players that would've gone to ECU. Ditto Appalachian State. Both of those G5 (now) programs have significant talent in them - UNC needs that for depth if nothing else.

When the day comes that UNC (and NC State for that matter) can walk all over ECU and App State in football, then I'll believe that they are doing the best they can in-state.

(11-05-2015 08:28 AM)XLance Wrote:  It's because we have to put up with faculty conspiracies designed to eliminate intercollegiate athletics at Carolina.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015...g-students


I hope you will scroll down in the comment section to read the reaction of Maryland's Len Elmore.

You're whining because the UNC faculty isn't on board with wholesale academic prostitution that has endangered the school's accreditation and is likely to bring about extreme NCAA punishment? Even with this extreme misconduct, UNC was barely competitive in football. And you get clowns posting here who want to bring politics into this. Talk about being in denial! Wake up. If UNC can't win playing by the rules, it's not worth winning. It's better to be an honorable failure than a dishonest success. If anything, the UNC faculty was far too reluctant to criticize the athletic department. If they had spoken up earlier, UNC wouldn't have gone so far down the wrong track. Don't you realize that athletics exists to benefit the university as a whole, rather than vice versa?

(11-05-2015 09:26 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 08:28 AM)XLance Wrote:  It's because we have to put up with faculty conspiracies designed to eliminate intercollegiate athletics at Carolina.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015...g-students


I hope you will scroll down in the comment section to read the reaction of Maryland's Len Elmore.

You're whining because the UNC faculty isn't on board with wholesale academic prostitution that has endangered the school's accreditation and is likely to bring about extreme NCAA punishment? Even with this extreme misconduct, UNC was barely competitive in football. And you get clowns posting here who want to bring politics into this. Talk about being in denial! Wake up. If UNC can't win playing by the rules, it's not worth winning. It's better to be an honorable failure than a dishonest success. If anything, the UNC faculty was far too reluctant to criticize the athletic department. If they had spoken up earlier, UNC wouldn't have gone so far down the wrong track. Don't you realize that athletics exists to benefit the university as a whole, rather than vice versa?

Always the concern in the ACC with football.

But hey, with basketball....it's all good.

LOL....hey Tobacco Road, you are already in the game but for some reason, you like to pretend @#$@# only happens in football. Yea, OK.

(11-05-2015 09:04 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  This is how much Duke dominated for 30 years from the time the SEC and ACC schools split:

Conference Champ

33
35
36
38 Rose Bowl
39
41 Rose Bowl
43
44 Sugar Bowl
45
52
53
54 Orange Bowl
55
Orange Bowl In 58 (NC State Conference Champs)
60 Cotton Bowl
61
62
89

16 Titles in 30 years. 6 major bowls in 30 years.

Now look at UNC:

Conference Champ:

46 Sugar Bowl
49 Sugar Bowl
50 Cotton Bowl - MD Conference Champs
63
71
72
77
80

Here is NC State

Conference Champs

27
57 (Duke went to Orange Bowl)
63
64
65
68
73
79

Duke essentially smothered UNC and NC State for three decades until they demphasized football in 1962. By the time that the ACC recovers from the demphasis in the 1970's they are a decade behind the other major conferences and only Clemson and MD manage to recover their their pre 1962 status as major bowl players.

That list shows how much Wallace Wade and Bill Murray mattered to Duke football and the value of Charlie Justice to Tar Heel football.

A few ACC schools did some stuff now and then in the 1930s through 1950s.

What is, why do I give a sh*t, Alex?

The amount of P5 programs or D1 programs only matters if UNC were restricted to just recruiting the state of NC. Their are enough prospects in state to form a base of 10-12 recruits per year. The DMV is close enough to be considered instate& you have GA,FL etc. The bottom line is you go out & get the best players you can no matter where they are from

(11-05-2015 10:01 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 08:51 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  This is a contributing factor but it's not the only reason. Pay wise, we won't compete with the elite programs. We can pay 5-6 million if we wanted to, but we won't. We have issues with the dilution of talent across a ton of FBS programs in a state of this size. NC State, Duke, ECU, Wake, App St.--all fighting for similar talent. What would it be like if NC was like Ohio and it was just us (like Ohio St.), and then some other smaller programs not in a major conference? We just need the right coach who's in it for the long haul.

Makes no sense to me, and times have changed. UNC needs to re-evaluate their stance on going all in for football. They have long been a sleeping giant IMO and there is no reason they can't be really good at both sports.

I see North Carolina as another Kentucky of the football world.

Because baby blue uniforms don't intimidate anyone?

(11-06-2015 09:02 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 10:01 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 08:51 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  This is a contributing factor but it's not the only reason. Pay wise, we won't compete with the elite programs. We can pay 5-6 million if we wanted to, but we won't. We have issues with the dilution of talent across a ton of FBS programs in a state of this size. NC State, Duke, ECU, Wake, App St.--all fighting for similar talent. What would it be like if NC was like Ohio and it was just us (like Ohio St.), and then some other smaller programs not in a major conference? We just need the right coach who's in it for the long haul.

Makes no sense to me, and times have changed. UNC needs to re-evaluate their stance on going all in for football. They have long been a sleeping giant IMO and there is no reason they can't be really good at both sports.

I see North Carolina as another Kentucky of the football world.

Nah. We have much more upside than Ky. We at least have a natural recruiting base. There's no real recruiting base in Ky. The right coach and come in and win big.

(11-06-2015 09:02 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 10:01 AM)uofl05 Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 08:51 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  This is a contributing factor but it's not the only reason. Pay wise, we won't compete with the elite programs. We can pay 5-6 million if we wanted to, but we won't. We have issues with the dilution of talent across a ton of FBS programs in a state of this size. NC State, Duke, ECU, Wake, App St.--all fighting for similar talent. What would it be like if NC was like Ohio and it was just us (like Ohio St.), and then some other smaller programs not in a major conference? We just need the right coach who's in it for the long haul.

Makes no sense to me, and times have changed. UNC needs to re-evaluate their stance on going all in for football. They have long been a sleeping giant IMO and there is no reason they can't be really good at both sports.

I see North Carolina as another Kentucky of the football world.

Kentucky has a all time winning percentage below 500, while UNC has won 56.5 % ofits games & from 1967-1998 won close to 60% of it's games with Dooley,Crum & Brown at the helm. The mediocre results have been in the BCS era.

(11-05-2015 09:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, UNC needs to get the best players that would've gone to ECU. Ditto Appalachian State. Both of those G5 (now) programs have significant talent in them - UNC needs that for depth if nothing else.

When the day comes that UNC (and NC State for that matter) can walk all over ECU and App State in football, then I'll believe that they are doing the best they can in-state.

Me 2, like I said there are plenty of athletes within close proximity to Chapell Hill, You just have to evaluate them properly & develop them when they get to campus. I often wonder where UNC would be program wise had Beamer took the job

(11-06-2015 09:25 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 09:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, UNC needs to get the best players that would've gone to ECU. Ditto Appalachian State. Both of those G5 (now) programs have significant talent in them - UNC needs that for depth if nothing else.

When the day comes that UNC (and NC State for that matter) can walk all over ECU and App State in football, then I'll believe that they are doing the best they can in-state.

Me 2, like I said there are plenty of athletes within close proximity to Chapell Hill, You just have to evaluate them properly & develop them when they get to campus. I often wonder where UNC would be program wise had Beamer took the job

Good point! UNC has tried to hit a home run with a top recruiting coach like Mack Brown or Butch Davis, but those coaches either (a) get caught cheating, or (b) has success and get hired away.

Perhaps what UNC really needs is a "coach 'em up" guy like Beamer was... fill the roster with 3 and 4 star players, beat everyone you're supposed to be, pull an occasional upset, and put together a string of 10-win seasons. Then, when the football brand is well-established, maybe y'all can think about the playoffs...

I wonder what would have happened if Mack Brown had never bolted. Or more recently, if Fedora had hired a better defensive staff when he first started.

(11-05-2015 09:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, UNC needs to get the best players that would've gone to ECU. Ditto Appalachian State. Both of those G5 (now) programs have significant talent in them - UNC needs that for depth if nothing else.

When the day comes that UNC (and NC State for that matter) can walk all over ECU and App State in football, then I'll believe that they are doing the best they can in-state.

I don't really know that ECU or App State diluting the recruiting is their problem. The truth is when a recruit gets offers from UNC and ECU, they typically choose UNC about 90% of the time and I say this as an ECU alum. Most of our best players are guys like Shane Carden or Justin Hardy (a walk on) who weren't recruited by any P-5 program, we've just been good through the years of finding guys that fit into our system and produce.

For the most part I think UNC recruits fine it's just effectively utilizing that talent. Look how many players they send to the NFL. Butch Davis recruited unbelievable talent to UNC but was only able to win 8 games a season with it. The only areas where I think UNC could be better at recruiting is trying to really keep and land the elite local NC talent which in the past has gone out of state, typically to the SEC. If they can get those type of players as well as great coaching I think they can do very well.

(11-06-2015 08:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  The amount of P5 programs or D1 programs only matters if UNC were restricted to just recruiting the state of NC. Their are enough prospects in state to form a base of 10-12 recruits per year. The DMV is close enough to be considered instate& you have GA,FL etc. The bottom line is you go out & get the best players you can no matter where they are from

UNC has consistently gotten the majority of top in state recruits that remain in state.

Dick Crum said that, " the university wanted to be Harvard Monday through Friday, and Oklahoma on Saturdays."

(11-08-2015 04:40 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 08:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  The amount of P5 programs or D1 programs only matters if UNC were restricted to just recruiting the state of NC. Their are enough prospects in state to form a base of 10-12 recruits per year. The DMV is close enough to be considered instate& you have GA,FL etc. The bottom line is you go out & get the best players you can no matter where they are from

UNC has consistently gotten the majority of top in state recruits that remain in state.

The problem is the majority of the top NC football recruits want to play at a school that cares about football so they leave the state.

and UNC (nor NCSU FWIW) isn't helping themselves by giving South Carolina almost yearly exposure in NC. They have a game vs a NC FBS school six out of the next eight years, and rumors are they are shortly going to announce a H&H with Duke to fill those two openings (2018 & 2022)

(11-08-2015 04:48 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 04:40 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(11-06-2015 08:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  The amount of P5 programs or D1 programs only matters if UNC were restricted to just recruiting the state of NC. Their are enough prospects in state to form a base of 10-12 recruits per year. The DMV is close enough to be considered instate& you have GA,FL etc. The bottom line is you go out & get the best players you can no matter where they are from

UNC has consistently gotten the majority of top in state recruits that remain in state.

The problem is the majority of the top NC football recruits want to play at a school that cares about football so they leave the state.

and UNC (nor NCSU FWIW) isn't helping themselves by giving South Carolina almost yearly exposure in NC. They have a game vs a NC FBS school six out of the next eight years, and rumors are they are shortly going to announce a H&H with Duke to fill those two openings (2018 & 2022)

I don't know if that matters. SC has always had a big presence in Charlotte as has Clemson. Columbia is an hour closer to Charlotte than Duke/UNC and 1.5 hours closer than NC State. ACC just needs to win those games and it won't really matter. It's all for the money anyway.

(11-08-2015 04:46 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Dick Crum said that, " the university wanted to be Harvard Monday through Friday, and Oklahoma on Saturdays."

This is the core problem.

UNC does try to be Harvard. They are not. They have several slide majors and a bunch of slide classes. However that being said, their bread and butter chemistry, biology, professional programs, and liberal arts are top notch. A dumb jock can't graduate from UNC without massive help, massive effort on his part, and usually massive help under the table.

The kid that can graduate legitimately at UNC, can get a football scholly to Duke, and if he sees himself in a STEM oriented future, he can get that school at VT, GT, or NC State.

If you want to solve the football problem in NC, NC State and UNC-Ch have to be joined - the two have been split for decades and that split has created a female oriented UNC and a male oriented NC State. VT and UVa have some of the same, but it's worse at State and UNC.

Mid-size and specialty STEMS have a lot of trouble sustaining massive, top notch football programs.

(11-06-2015 10:14 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I wonder what would have happened if Mack Brown had never bolted. Or more recently, if Fedora had hired a better defensive staff when he first started.

Had Brown stayed he would kept Amato from slightly reviving NC State, and he would have been there where Bobby B was kept four years too long. A title and change of culture was a possibility, but basketball ptb did not want that in Chapel Hill and that from a Super Ram who used to take us to the party room before UNC basketball games in the DD and his seats were just 10 rows off the court.

I can't recall her name, she won a swimming gold medal, and did much of the hospitality glad handing for UNC back then (Sue Stankavich IIRC) said basically the same thing in the 90's.