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Debate on denying a bowl game
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RiceOwl53 Offline
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Post: #1
Debate on denying a bowl game
First and foremost I want to say this is not meant to offend anyone. It's my perspective as a recent graduate (my second season not playing) from the Rice football program.

I hope we get the opportunity to go to a bowl game. We can finish 8-4 or 7-5 and go to a bowl game. God forbid we go 6-6 and miss out on the opportunity. There are many reasons Rice should NEVER deny an opportunity to go to a bowl game. No matter what bowl it is, who we are playing in the bowl, or any other factor.

The main reason is for the players. Both years I played at Rice we were blessed enough to be able to go to a bowl game. Both years are some of the best memories I had at Rice. We didn't have to worry about school, all we had to worry about was football. It was awesome. We just had football and time to hang out with your best friends. Not to mention the free vacation to wherever the bowl game was, with your teammates. The bowl gifts are always welcome, no matter what they are. Even if you get a blow dryer (like one of the many gifts was at some random sub-par bowl a few years ago), you can give it to your mom, sister, or girlfriend. One less Christmas present to buy. But by and large the gifts are great. Each year I got things I wanted but would never buy for myself and the only reason I got them was because we went to a bowl game. Possibly the best point is that as a player, you get to play on a nationally televised game. I believe our bowls were on ESPN2 the first year and ESPN the second year. EVERYONE we knew could watch the game, no matter where they were in the nation. It was awesome. It's great for the seniors as well. A "one last hurrah" kind of thing. Most of us know we didn't have a chance or not much of a chance at the pros, so why not have one more game to play the sport we love and gave so much for?

The second reason is for the football program in general. Recruits want to go places that make bowl games, for the aforementioned reasons. The "we've made bowl games 4 years in a row" sounds a lot better to a recruit than "we made bowl games 3 out of the last 4 years but denied the 4th year because we didn't get the one we wanted." The national exposure of the football program also is a great advantage to going to a bowl game, no matter which bowl. Also, the development that occurs during bowl practice is great for the younger guys.

The third reason is for Rice University. A bowl game gives national exposure for Rice. It gets airtime during the commercial breaks and I guarantee you people google what Rice is all about when they see the game (because if most football fans are like me, I watch almost every, if not every bowl game). During bowl season, I definitely google information of schools I don't know much about when I see them playing.

I really hope this addresses this topic. I can guarantee you none of the recent graduates would trade going to a bowl for anything. It seems selfish to demand the program to deny a bowl invitation, only to satisfy a few people's dissatisfaction with a season. It's not fair to the players, football program, or the university.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2015 03:31 PM by RiceOwl53.)
11-03-2015 03:29 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
Yes, the rational step for Rice is to accept the bowl invitation.

But one can also believe that there are too many bowl games. It is silly enough that every team with a winning record gets a bowl invitation. It is ridiculous that all teams with even records PLUS plus a good number of teams with losing records get them as well.
11-03-2015 03:36 PM
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RiceOwl53 Offline
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RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 03:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Yes, the rational step for Rice is to accept the bowl invitation.

But one can also believe that there are too many bowl games. It is silly enough that every team with a winning record gets a bowl invitation. It is ridiculous that all teams with even records PLUS plus a good number of teams with losing records get them as well.

Not all teams with even records get bowl invitations or even those with winning records. Depends on conference tie-ins.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2015 03:38 PM by RiceOwl53.)
11-03-2015 03:37 PM
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Orange County Owl Online
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Post: #4
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
Never deny a bowl invitation.
11-03-2015 03:46 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 03:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Yes, the rational step for Rice is to accept the bowl invitation.

But one can also believe that there are too many bowl games. It is silly enough that every team with a winning record gets a bowl invitation. It is ridiculous that all teams with even records PLUS plus a good number of teams with losing records get them as well.

I agree with both you and the OP, George. Rice is not anywhere near the position to deny a Bowl invitation or a bowl invitation. Much as I'm dissatisfied with things in the program, I would not want to penalize the players if they get invited, even with a losing record. It is not their fault there are way too many bowl games, and there were several teams in the not too distant past that really deserved to go but did not because of less games and bowl politics. Going is better than not going. So go and do your best, Owls.
11-03-2015 03:54 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
I think even those who suggested it without thinking it through have been 'convinced' that it is not a good idea. Maybe not fully, and the perspective of someone who has actually experienced them is valuable here... as opposed to those of us who had tertiary experiences or none at all, but I think the overwhelming majority of us agree with you here 53
11-03-2015 03:57 PM
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RiceOwl53 Offline
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RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 03:57 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think even those who suggested it without thinking it through have been 'convinced' that it is not a good idea. Maybe not fully, and the perspective of someone who has actually experienced them is valuable here... as opposed to those of us who had tertiary experiences or none at all, but I think the overwhelming majority of us agree with you here 53

That's good to hear. I don't remember which thread but it was an actual debate on whether we should go or deny the invitation in the event we got an invitation.
11-03-2015 04:01 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
I must have missed the part where this was seriously being debated in the first place.
11-03-2015 04:02 PM
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InterestedX Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
From the LaTech game thread, not really a serious call to turn one down:

(10-30-2015 09:37 PM)Wiessman Wrote:
I would love to make a statement and turn down a bull**** bowl. But we're not in a position to be doing such things.
11-03-2015 04:29 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 03:29 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  First and foremost I want to say this is not meant to offend anyone. It's my perspective as a recent graduate (my second season not playing) from the Rice football program.

I hope we get the opportunity to go to a bowl game. We can finish 8-4 or 7-5 and go to a bowl game. God forbid we go 6-6 and miss out on the opportunity. There are many reasons Rice should NEVER deny an opportunity to go to a bowl game. No matter what bowl it is, who we are playing in the bowl, or any other factor.

The main reason is for the players. Both years I played at Rice we were blessed enough to be able to go to a bowl game. Both years are some of the best memories I had at Rice. We didn't have to worry about school, all we had to worry about was football. It was awesome. We just had football and time to hang out with your best friends. Not to mention the free vacation to wherever the bowl game was, with your teammates. The bowl gifts are always welcome, no matter what they are. Even if you get a blow dryer (like one of the many gifts was at some random sub-par bowl a few years ago), you can give it to your mom, sister, or girlfriend. One less Christmas present to buy. But by and large the gifts are great. Each year I got things I wanted but would never buy for myself and the only reason I got them was because we went to a bowl game. Possibly the best point is that as a player, you get to play on a nationally televised game. I believe our bowls were on ESPN2 the first year and ESPN the second year. EVERYONE we knew could watch the game, no matter where they were in the nation. It was awesome. It's great for the seniors as well. A "one last hurrah" kind of thing. Most of us know we didn't have a chance or not much of a chance at the pros, so why not have one more game to play the sport we love and gave so much for?

The second reason is for the football program in general. Recruits want to go places that make bowl games, for the aforementioned reasons. The "we've made bowl games 4 years in a row" sounds a lot better to a recruit than "we made bowl games 3 out of the last 4 years but denied the 4th year because we didn't get the one we wanted." The national exposure of the football program also is a great advantage to going to a bowl game, no matter which bowl. Also, the development that occurs during bowl practice is great for the younger guys.

The third reason is for Rice University. A bowl game gives national exposure for Rice. It gets airtime during the commercial breaks and I guarantee you people google what Rice is all about when they see the game (because if most football fans are like me, I watch almost every, if not every bowl game). During bowl season, I definitely google information of schools I don't know much about when I see them playing.

I really hope this addresses this topic. I can guarantee you none of the recent graduates would trade going to a bowl for anything. It seems selfish to demand the program to deny a bowl invitation, only to satisfy a few people's dissatisfaction with a season. It's not fair to the players, football program, or the university.

100% agree
11-03-2015 04:42 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #11
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 04:01 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 03:57 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think even those who suggested it without thinking it through have been 'convinced' that it is not a good idea. Maybe not fully, and the perspective of someone who has actually experienced them is valuable here... as opposed to those of us who had tertiary experiences or none at all, but I think the overwhelming majority of us agree with you here 53

That's good to hear. I don't remember which thread but it was an actual debate on whether we should go or deny the invitation in the event we got an invitation.

Really, there wasn't a debate. The argument is being distorted. We generally agree that a bowl invitation should always be accepted.

What some of us do not agree on is whether or not there are too many bowls. I think there are too many bowls because most of them aren't a real mark of excellence during a season, even though they are often touted as such. Going to "x" number of bowls in a row in and of itself doesn't mean much anymore; the caliber of those bowls is what really matters.

For the players, and perhaps for the schools, there probably can't be too many bowls, assuming that the implicit benefits of the bowls are always derived. The question is whether or not the market demands "x" number of bowls exist; I believe that right now, the market is saturated, and losses are being hidden in creative ways.
11-03-2015 06:01 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #12
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
Just to add, I am troubled by the fact that people are looking for controversies where there are none. I said that it would be nice to make a statement by declining a crappy bowl invite, but I also stated that we shouldn't do it, for the many reasons that were clearly laid out by myself and others.

I would like to decline a bowl invitation only as a statement of dissatisfaction with our performance and overall bowl fatigue, but those aren't the primary considerations, so barring a clear economic loss, I would never actually recommend declining an invitation.

Signing off, have a nice day.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2015 06:27 PM by Wiessman.)
11-03-2015 06:03 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 06:01 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  . . . I believe that right now, the market is saturated, and losses are being hidden in creative ways.

That may well be true of college sports in general.
11-03-2015 06:04 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #14
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 06:04 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 06:01 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  . . . I believe that right now, the market is saturated, and losses are being hidden in creative ways.

That may well be true of college sports in general.

Well, yeah, but I don't want to go down that road right now. That is a much broader and far more contentious issue.
11-03-2015 06:08 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #15
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
One more thing:

I am friends with several former players, and I have discussed this and myriad other issues with them in person in the past. So before Mr. RiceOwl53 plays the "not part of the program" card, I would like to humbly suggest that he keep that card in his pocket for the time being. I can't be put off or intimidated.
11-03-2015 06:13 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 06:03 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  Just to add, I am troubled by the fact that people are looking for controversies where there are none. I said that it would be nice to make a statement by declining a crappy bowl invite, but I also stated that we shouldn't do it, for the many reasons that were clearly laid out by myself and others.

I would like to decline a bowl invitation only as a statement of dissatisfaction with our performance and overall bowl fatigue, but those aren't the primary considerations, so barring a clear economic loss, I would never recommend declining an invitation.

Signing off, have a nice day.

I do understand how you feel and why you would post something like that, Weissman. At some point, there is a longing by some to draw a very clear line in the sand and state this is the standard and we are tired of qualifying everything (kind of like what Hambone posted about what "Just win, baby" really means. It means not losing at all during a season.) I also understand you don't actually want us to do that to our players. I have no problem with you posting how you're feeling about the way you're seeing things in the moment things on here.
11-03-2015 06:14 PM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
Seems like the straw man is dead and buried.
11-03-2015 06:30 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 04:02 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  I must have missed the part where this was seriously being debated in the first place.

It wasn't. It would be complete stupidity for us to turn down a bowl.

And to those who say there are too many bowl games- why? Who is hurt by it?
11-03-2015 06:38 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
(11-03-2015 06:04 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 06:01 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  . . . I believe that right now, the market is saturated, and losses are being hidden in creative ways.

That may well be true of college sports in general.

College sports as 'entertainment/programming' may be saturated. I don't think college sports per se are saturated.

The sports themselves are about competition with other universities and similar student-athletes.

That can be worthwhile without excessive media hoopla, and doesn't require television broadcasting.

But then again, I would never skip a Rice game to watch other universities play on TV. In fact, the only time I miss Rice football (in person at home or on radio on the road (if I'm not going myself) is if one of my kids is competing in something. (I think it's Hambone's profile that states "I Root for: my kids". Bingo)
11-03-2015 07:06 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Debate on denying a bowl game
My stance is that we should always accept a bowl game, however we should stop acting like they are anything special.

My only fear is we go 6-6 and go to a bowl and people start telling us how Bailiff has somehow taken rice to FOUR straight bowls and somehow we should be impressed
11-03-2015 09:46 PM
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