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Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 10:08 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 09:48 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 09:02 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 08:54 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 08:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  The TV contract is probably the least of their worries. The kings could probably all do a lot better with individual TV contracts than a conference contract. If NBC isn't interested, then somebody else would be.


Agreed. NBC is getting a good deal with the ND contract. It has low ongoing production costs and pretty good ratings.

If NBC decides that it didn't want to renew after 2025 (which I seriously doubt), ESPN, Fox or TBS would probably line up to bid.

As far as playoffs, I don't see this as an insurmountable issue for continued independence. I get the feeling that Swarbrick does not either.

The ACC is not going to kick ND out as a member, even after 2027. That is a message board pipe dream.

If the ACC is raided, then back fill and move on.

Who would the ACC backfill with? ND didn't like the BE backfills and probably won't like any of the backfills the ACC would make. It would actually make the ACC a G5 type conference which would hurt ND and why ND left the Big East.

The ACC could lose up to 6 members (2 to Big 10, 2 to SEC, 2 to Big 12 maybe even 4 to the Big 12) What would ND do then? It seems like it is in the best interest of Notre Dame to keep the ACC together and make it stronger...there is only one way to do that and that is to become a full member unless they want to be a full member of the Big 12.

So, to not lose the war, you advocate....losing the war.

Joining a conference to save it is not going to keep ND independent. Not a real option.

The ACC will not get ripped apart like your Doomsday Scenario.

The war is already lost Terry. That was already determined a few years ago with the joining the ACC and having to play 5 teams. It was also determined by the Orange Bowl signing the #2 SEC and Big 10 teams to play the ACC champion.
It is also is lost by the CFP committee by having the CCG being a more determining factor for 1 of the 4 spots.

And yes, the ACC will get ripped apart because if the other conferences are getting much more than the ACC, that will not stop the ACC schools from leaving. They would be able to easily pay any penalty from the money they'll be getting from the other conferences.

Sorry, it is damn far from "determined" that ND football will ever join a conference.
10-30-2015 02:17 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 11:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 10:53 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  ND only saving grace was the ACC coming to their rescue. B1G/PAC/SEC/B12 will not take them as a independent with the same arrangement. Best the the B1G can do is put pressure on the ACC by attempting to take some of their pillar programs weaken them so much, too where ND does not see it advantages to stay independent, that's the 3rd one I believe Swarbrick, failed to mention. Other words the ACC becomes a not to nice neighborhood they don't want to be in any longer, like the old Big East became whom they left . Now if those type of machinations go on behind the scene to make ND bow down, I have no idea. But that's what I would do because they're a modern day oddity and anachronism in modern day FB. Outlier is right long as they stay indy, it really makes no sense to go to a 4 conference (which I'm not for if Houston was part of it or not, I think if bad for all of CFB, IMHO) if that's what the end game plan is. ND days are numbered as indy IMHO. Give it 10-15 years

The ACC came to Notre Dame's rescue? Seriously?

The ACC made a deal with ND because it was in their own interest to do so. They want ND's football team to come to their house, because they are money in the bank. That's the same reason the CFP wants them, and all the major bowls want them.

Notre Dame doesn't need rescuing.

The Big 12 was ready to make a partial ND deal too. The Big 12 leaders were stunned when ND went to the ACC.
10-30-2015 02:22 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 11:57 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 11:53 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 11:50 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 11:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 10:53 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  ND only saving grace was the ACC coming to their rescue. B1G/PAC/SEC/B12 will not take them as a independent with the same arrangement. Best the the B1G can do is put pressure on the ACC by attempting to take some of their pillar programs weaken them so much, too where ND does not see it advantages to stay independent, that's the 3rd one I believe Swarbrick, failed to mention. Other words the ACC becomes a not to nice neighborhood they don't want to be in any longer, like the old Big East became whom they left . Now if those type of machinations go on behind the scene to make ND bow down, I have no idea. But that's what I would do because they're a modern day oddity and anachronism in modern day FB. Outlier is right long as they stay indy, it really makes no sense to go to a 4 conference (which I'm not for if Houston was part of it or not, I think if bad for all of CFB, IMHO) if that's what the end game plan is. ND days are numbered as indy IMHO. Give it 10-15 years

The ACC came to Notre Dame's rescue? Seriously?

The ACC made a deal with ND because it was in their own interest to do so. They want ND's football team to come to their house, because they are money in the bank. That's the same reason the CFP wants them, and all the major bowls want them.

Notre Dame doesn't need rescuing.

Answer me this. If the ACC didn't take them who else was? Was it B1G/PAC/SEC/B12?

The Big 12 had the essentially the same non-football membership offer on the table to ND. In the end, ND chose the ACC over the Big 12. If the ACC somehow ceased to exist, the Big 12 would offer ND the same deal. The powers that be at Texas have been on the record about their courting of ND in the past - they didn't even try to hide it.

That makes sense since Deloss was trying to get them to marry up with Texas in the B12 for the longest. Texas does see ND as their only peer in all CFB. But no way in the world there were going to the B12 never in a million years not now, today, not ever. They'll join with the B1G first. Where they ought to be.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place that ND wants to be. It would take a partial deal with anyone over full Big Ten membership.

Joining the Big Ten is literally the worst case scenario for ND in conference realignment.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 02:27 PM by TerryD.)
10-30-2015 02:25 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 11:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  A:NBC may not renew their tv contract, and
B.The Power 5 Conference schools could pass a rule that there should be no more Independents in FBS.

You have a better chance of being named President of Botswana than either of those two things ever happening.
10-30-2015 02:27 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 12:11 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I can see the day when the ND AD at the time, announces on joining the B1G, it took us a long time to get here, but we finally got here. 4 conferences at 20 teams is coming. Delany has been quoted as saying the B1G will expand to 20.

I will bet you a thousand dollars that ND will not end up in the Big Ten in the next 25 years.
10-30-2015 02:29 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 12:54 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 12:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 11:57 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  That makes sense since Deloss was trying to get them to marry up with Texas in the B12 for the longest. Texas does see ND as their only peer in all CFB. But no way in the world there were going to the B12 never in a million years not now, today, not ever. They'll join with the B1G first. Where they ought to be.

You lose a lot of credibility in the discussion by saying "Notre Dame ought to be in the B1G".

How so? They'll be in the B1G if the B1G absorbs a good portion of the ACC. They'll have no choice. They are not going to the B12. The B1G will own the Mid West and East Coast markets (major ND fans and alum live in those markets) that's what they're in the midst of trying to achieve. Additions of Maryland, Rutgers, are just a precursor. ND is coming home to papa one day just like the prodigal son. Yes they ought to be with the B1G, based on markets.

Are you aware of the history of ND with the Big Ten, how much ND alumni despise Michigan and the Big Ten and how much it wants to play its away football games in the Southeast/Southwest/West Coast.

ND's biggest fear is getting "regionalized" as a Midwest team if it joined the Big Ten.

ND would join just about any conference before the Big Ten. Most ND people would consider that a disaster and a lost war in CR, the worst outcome possible.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 03:04 PM by TerryD.)
10-30-2015 02:36 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
Paging TerryD...

Oxygen is on line 2. Please breath heavily. 03-wink
10-30-2015 02:37 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 02:37 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Paging TerryD...

Oxygen is on line 2. Please breath heavily. 03-wink


Nah, this is all in fun. I like to debate ****.

I just got out of a deposition, so I was replying chronologically to the posts in this thread.

This is a message board for sports, not real life or death.

Besides, I am a laid back, Type B guy.

It is possible that some day, many, many years from now, that ND football might... might end up in the ACC. I seriously doubt it, but maybe.

If I am still alive that yo many years from now, I wouldn't like it, but would adapt.

The Big Ten in the other hand....I would quit following ND if it sold out to those bastages.... :)
10-30-2015 02:58 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 02:25 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Joining the Big Ten is literally the worst case scenario for ND in conference realignment.

That's probably not what the faculty (still) thinks.

I don't disagree that certain students, alumni, fans, and boosters might feel this way. You certainly feel that way. But it's far from institution-wide. It's just easier to subdue and marginalize the faculty.
10-30-2015 03:16 PM
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BIgCatonProwl Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 02:37 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Paging TerryD...

Oxygen is on line 2. Please breath heavily. 03-wink


Nah, this is all in fun. I like to debate ****.

I just got out of a deposition, so I was replying chronologically to the posts in this thread.

This is a message board for sports, not real life or death.

Besides, I am a laid back, Type B guy.

It is possible that some day, many, many years from now, that ND football might... might end up in the ACC. I seriously doubt it, but maybe.

If I am still alive that yo many years from now, I wouldn't like it, but would adapt.

The Big Ten in the other hand....I would quit following ND if it sold out to those bastages.... :)

They won't be a Midwestern team the B1G is morphing into Midwest and Eastern league. Reason I used the prodigal son analogy, they are resisting they're ultimate natural fit. Admins change people change attitudes change based on the present day situation. It's all great speculation on our parts, for sure. I'm just looking at the historical march the B1G has done realignment wise so far and the ACC is in their gun sites, being they are now on their back door. ND going to B12 is non starter, because ND's despises and does not trust Texas, from what Swarbrick allegedly has said from behind the scenes.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 03:26 PM by BIgCatonProwl.)
10-30-2015 03:20 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 03:16 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 02:25 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Joining the Big Ten is literally the worst case scenario for ND in conference realignment.

That's probably not what the faculty (still) thinks.

I don't disagree that certain students, alumni, fans, and boosters might feel this way. You certainly feel that way. But it's far from institution-wide. It's just easier to subdue and marginalize the faculty.

Faculty want to join(Most).

75-80 percent of fans and Alumni never want the Big 10.

The Big 10 is a non-starter, the faculty won't get there way.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 03:27 PM by domer1978.)
10-30-2015 03:26 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
Who cares what the faculty may think?

They have exactly zero input on this.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 03:35 PM by TerryD.)
10-30-2015 03:34 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 03:20 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 02:58 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 02:37 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Paging TerryD...

Oxygen is on line 2. Please breath heavily. 03-wink


Nah, this is all in fun. I like to debate ****.

I just got out of a deposition, so I was replying chronologically to the posts in this thread.

This is a message board for sports, not real life or death.

Besides, I am a laid back, Type B guy.

It is possible that some day, many, many years from now, that ND football might... might end up in the ACC. I seriously doubt it, but maybe.

If I am still alive that yo many years from now, I wouldn't like it, but would adapt.

The Big Ten in the other hand....I would quit following ND if it sold out to those bastages.... :)

They won't be a Midwestern team the B1G is morphing into Midwest and Eastern league. Reason I used the prodigal son analogy, they are resisting they're ultimate natural fit. Admins change people change attitudes change based on the present day situation. It's all great speculation on our parts, for sure. I'm just looking at the historical march the B1G has done realignment wise so far and the ACC is in their gun sites, being they are now on their back door. ND going to B12 is non starter, because ND's despises and does not trust Texas, from what Swarbrick allegedly has said from behind the scenes.

Really? Could have fooled me regarding Texas and ND, they have been thick as thieves.

Unless the Big Ten stretches south to Miami and west into Texas, it doesn't fit ND's plans.

Have you seen a map of ND away games for the last couple of years and the next few years ? All South and West, with no Midwestern and Big Ten schools on the schedule this year.

ND uses the ACC away games and series with Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, Arizona State, Southern Cal, Stanford and others ( which independence gives ND 7 games a year to schedule) to play where the demographics are growing and the best/ most recruits are located.

The Big Ten can never help, only hinder, those goals.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2015 03:44 PM by TerryD.)
10-30-2015 03:43 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 11:50 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 11:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 10:53 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  ND only saving grace was the ACC coming to their rescue. B1G/PAC/SEC/B12 will not take them as a independent with the same arrangement. Best the the B1G can do is put pressure on the ACC by attempting to take some of their pillar programs weaken them so much, too where ND does not see it advantages to stay independent, that's the 3rd one I believe Swarbrick, failed to mention. Other words the ACC becomes a not to nice neighborhood they don't want to be in any longer, like the old Big East became whom they left . Now if those type of machinations go on behind the scene to make ND bow down, I have no idea. But that's what I would do because they're a modern day oddity and anachronism in modern day FB. Outlier is right long as they stay indy, it really makes no sense to go to a 4 conference (which I'm not for if Houston was part of it or not, I think if bad for all of CFB, IMHO) if that's what the end game plan is. ND days are numbered as indy IMHO. Give it 10-15 years

The ACC came to Notre Dame's rescue? Seriously?

The ACC made a deal with ND because it was in their own interest to do so. They want ND's football team to come to their house, because they are money in the bank. That's the same reason the CFP wants them, and all the major bowls want them.

Notre Dame doesn't need rescuing.

Answer me this. If the ACC didn't take them who else was? Was it B1G/PAC/SEC/B12?

Actually, I hate to say this, but truth is important to me. The Big 12 made ND the same offer before the ACC did and ND turned it down. I think ND made a mistake turning it down but the Big 12 had just lost 4 important state schools. Cheers!
10-30-2015 04:32 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 10:19 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  ND is at an automatic disadvantage in the CURRENT system since they don't play a championship game.

If they move to an 8 team playoff with conference autobids and 1 at-large for a non-champion it will only make it worse, IMO.

Can't wait for a P5 frontrunner to lose to the underdog in the CCG. It'll be interesting to see how much of a disadvantage Notre Dame and the Big 12 are in that scenario.

Remember, the Big 12 as close to TWO teams in the CFP as it was to none.
10-30-2015 06:28 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 06:28 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 10:19 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  ND is at an automatic disadvantage in the CURRENT system since they don't play a championship game.

If they move to an 8 team playoff with conference autobids and 1 at-large for a non-champion it will only make it worse, IMO.

Can't wait for a P5 frontrunner to lose to the underdog in the CCG. It'll be interesting to see how much of a disadvantage Notre Dame and the Big 12 are in that scenario.

Remember, the Big 12 as close to TWO teams in the CFP as it was to none.

Yes, this notion that having a CCG is an unalloyed good is pretty silly. CCG's can cut both ways, vaulting a borderline team in by giving them one more chance to shine, but also knocking a sure-bet out by giving them an extra chance to fail.

It's a two-edge sword, and too many around here are extrapolating the future based on what happened last year.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2015 07:59 AM by quo vadis.)
10-31-2015 07:58 AM
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Post: #77
RE: Jack Swarbick on independence/realignment
(10-30-2015 12:37 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 12:34 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 12:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 12:29 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-30-2015 12:21 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  The Big East, Indy football.

Jack Swarbrick said this about that potential arrangement. " Great for Catholicism, horrible for everything else.". Non starter and won't happen.

ND bball fans wouldn't buy tickets to watch Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, Seton Hall, St. John's in South Bend?
Does joining that conference help with bowl deals and perception as being out of the Big 5? Swarbrick stated that and I agree that it wouldn't be good for the university as a whole.

It wouldn't come to that. Even if conference realignment Armageddon comes to pass (which I don't believe is going to occur), then one of either the ACC or Big 12 is going to be left standing. Whoever is left will provide ND with a non-sports membership without any question (as they both have already offered it).

Depends upon what the ACC/B12 merged league looks like.

If it contains all of the major football programs FSU, Texas, OU, Clemson, Miami, GT, etc., then I am not convinced that the "merged" league would be willing to give ND the partial deal that the weakened ACC and B12 offered the Irish previously.

If the merged league is an amalgamation of leftovers of the two leagues where two of FSU, Texas, and OU wind up in the other three P5 leagues, then yes, ND will still get a partial deal.

It's all conjecture at this point.

Cheers,
Neil
10-31-2015 10:35 AM
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