http://thebrownandwhite.com/2015/10/29/p...cheduling/

Which schools could they be looking for in their footprint? Could some D2 that fits them for academics and in the footprint could be a target?

Where to begin?

Do you hear the call, Richmond, Villanova, and W&M? Davidson, care to tweek your program to resemble at least Georgetown's?

This makes me wonder why they ever bothered with Boston. At least with Loyola, you got to the Beltway area with a solid lax pick up. There's no guarantee Boston keeps theirs. Patsy was a move to further tighten their budgets. Neither added football.

AI makes football membership tough, but the no redshirting thing on top of that is brutal. They may as well look to Pioneer schools for that twofer.

I would look at some Pioneer Football League schools if willing to do a football only:

Dayton
Valpo
Butler
Davidson
Marist

Monmouth. It's in a neighboring state, a bus trip away game and can join for just football.

(10-30-2015 07:08 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

Where to begin?

Do you hear the call, Richmond, Villanova, and W&M? Davidson, care to tweek your program to resemble at least Georgetown's?

This makes me wonder why they ever bothered with Boston. At least with Loyola, you got to the Beltway area with a solid lax pick up. There's no guarantee Boston keeps theirs. Patsy was a move to further tighten their budgets. Neither added football.

AI makes football membership tough, but the no redshirting thing on top of that is brutal. They may as well look to Pioneer schools for that twofer.

Richmond, Villanova, W&M, Davidson --- I can't imagine any of them want to be an ALL-sports member of the Patriot League.

I'm honestly not sure why the Patriot League needs an ALL-sports member though? Reading the article, it seems it's mostly a football issue. Get a 8th football member, and then it reduces the OOC-scheduling difficulties quite a bit.

(even then, is scheduling OOC games that difficult? There are plenty of Ivy League, NEC and CAA schools around that area)

Anyway, if they are looking for an all-sports member, Monmouth and VMI strike me as the best possible candidates. Maybe Fairfield, but I don't know too much about their academics?

But if they are simply looking for a football-only member, then yes, there are a lot more candidates, including the schools you listed.

(10-30-2015 08:20 AM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 07:08 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

Where to begin?

Do you hear the call, Richmond, Villanova, and W&M? Davidson, care to tweek your program to resemble at least Georgetown's?

This makes me wonder why they ever bothered with Boston. At least with Loyola, you got to the Beltway area with a solid lax pick up. There's no guarantee Boston keeps theirs. Patsy was a move to further tighten their budgets. Neither added football.

AI makes football membership tough, but the no redshirting thing on top of that is brutal. They may as well look to Pioneer schools for that twofer.

Richmond, Villanova, W&M, Davidson --- I can't imagine any of them want to be an ALL-sports member of the Patriot League.

I'm honestly not sure why the Patriot League needs an ALL-sports member though? Reading the article, it seems it's mostly a football issue. Get a 8th football member, and then it reduces the OOC-scheduling difficulties quite a bit.

(even then, is scheduling OOC games that difficult? There are plenty of Ivy League, NEC and CAA schools around that area)

Anyway, if they are looking for an all-sports member, Monmouth and VMI strike me as the best possible candidates. Maybe Fairfield, but I don't know too much about their academics?

But if they are simply looking for a football-only member, then yes, there are a lot more candidates, including the schools you listed.

I read it the same way: the heading in this thread is very misleading because I don't think the focus is on adding all-sports members. Instead, it's more of a football issue.

Making football-only additions would give the Patriot League a lot more options. I don't think that it would be realistic for current A-10 all-sports members to leave for all-sports invites to the Patriot League (as the A-10 is one of those few non-power conferences that gets a fair amount of NCAA Tournament revenue). Football-only would be a different matter.

Campbell Fighting Camels.

William & Mary I think should give the Patriot a look because of the academics of the conference.

What a bogus thread. No surprise, given the poster that started it.


The article is nothing more than some PL football coaches complaining about football scheduling.


That in no way, shape or form is an indication that the conference is actively looking for even football-affiliate expansion, let alone full-member expansion, candidates.


Davidson and Fordham are in the A10 for bball, which is a high-major. The PL is a low-major.

There's no more chance that any A10 school joins the PL as a full-member than there is that Georgetown leaves the Big East to become a full-member of the PL.


Army and Navy will never drop their football down to play in the PL.


That leaves the core-5 (Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell and Colgate) to compete among themselves plus two football-only affiliates in Fordham and Georgetown, neither of which really want to be in the PL. Fordham wants to be a full scholarship, no AI, nationally competitive program. Georgetown wants to be in the Ivy League and puts minimal investment into their football program.


And then three non-football full-members, none of which will likely start football.

Boston U had football in the past, and they still have a reasonable stadium, but I doubt they bring football back.



If JMU and Delaware left the CAA, you might be able to get some of those teams as football-only affiliates. (Richmond, Villanova, Towson, W&M)

Maybe Davidson as a football-only affiliate.

It could work for Villanova if the cost of scholarships for football is too much to bear, and their program takes a downturn once Talley retires. Otherwise there isn't much of a reason for them to leave the CAA.

As for Viillanova pulling their other sports out of the Big East, well, never would be the appropriate response.

What about Delaware themselves dipping their feet into the Patriot League?

I could see some attraction to playing in an all sport conference with Army & Navy.

It sounds like UD is leaning to stay FCS.

Monmouth is the best bet if the Patriot wants a football only school. Once their contract with the Big South expires I would suspect they would be open to change.

(10-30-2015 10:16 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Monmouth is the best bet if the Patriot wants a football only school. Once their contract with the Big South expires I would suspect they would be open to change.

Why would any FCS school that wants to have a full-scholarship, no-AI, nationally competitive football program consider the Patriot League?

(10-30-2015 10:04 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  What about Delaware themselves dipping their feet into the Patriot League?

I could see some attraction to playing in an all sport conference with Army & Navy.

It sounds like UD is leaning to stay FCS.

I don't think Delaware has a choice. It doesn't matter if a FCS school wants to move to FBS (and there are tons of them) - that isn't relevant. Instead, the only question that matters is which FBS conference wants them? UMass is already a football nomad, which doesn't bode well for any Northeast-based FCS move-up.

I know Patriot approached UNH for football-only membership along with Villanova, Richmond, and W&M, and they stick out as the academic outlier of that group, but Monmouth is a reach. A very far reach. Monmouth (and Fairfield) are gunning for CAA.

Marist would love it. I've heard they've tried, often.

I think this comes down to reapproaching Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary, or maybe take a stab at other football-only options from NEC or Pioneer. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they could strike something up with Davidson. VMI...I wonder how Army and Navy would feel about that.

Agreed that this is a football issue and not an all-sports thing. I'm still confused by how Patriot handled its business. Had they gotten on this sooner, maybe they could have held Boston or Northeastern to keeping their football if it meant membership. They (Patriot) dragged their feet, and both dropped...and now they're "stuck" with Boston (as some Patriot fans aren't keen on them to begin with, as with American, who is a black-eye for their completion statistics).

My money's on Villanova. Their coach, who pushed like crazy to get to FBS, is gone sometime in the next 2-3 years, maybe sooner. They'll think this gets them closer to Penn on the recruitment and enrollment side. Their program gets a lot more local games out of it. The schools coming in might not upset the NIMBY/snobs of Radnor who don't want the athletic traffic through those parts. I suspect Villanova will go, but only if Richmond or W&M move with them.

(10-30-2015 10:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I know Patriot approached UNH for football-only membership along with Villanova, Richmond, and W&M, and they stick out as the academic outlier of that group, but Monmouth is a reach. A very far reach. Monmouth (and Fairfield) are gunning for CAA.

Marist would love it. I've heard they've tried, often.

I think this comes down to reapproaching Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary, or maybe take a stab at other football-only options from NEC or Pioneer. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they could strike something up with Davidson. VMI...I wonder how Army and Navy would feel about that.

Agreed that this is a football issue and not an all-sports thing. I'm still confused by how Patriot handled its business. Had they gotten on this sooner, maybe they could have held Boston or Northeastern to keeping their football if it meant membership. They (Patriot) dragged their feet, and both dropped...and now they're "stuck" with Boston (as some Patriot fans aren't keen on them to begin with, as with American, who is a black-eye for their completion statistics).

My money's on Villanova. Their coach, who pushed like crazy to get to FBS, is gone sometime in the next 2-3 years, maybe sooner. They'll think this gets them closer to Penn on the recruitment and enrollment side. Their program gets a lot more local games out of it. The schools coming in might not upset the NIMBY/snobs of Radnor who don't want the athletic traffic through those parts. I suspect Villanova will go, but only if Richmond or W&M move with them.

And if Villanova can disregard the AI, like I believe Fordham is allowed to do.

There are a couple of northeast schools are interested in going to D2, but don't know if they fit.

Long Island-Post and Indiana, Pa.

Le Moyne might be something to look at. Not sure about Kutztown.

(10-30-2015 12:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 10:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I know Patriot approached UNH for football-only membership along with Villanova, Richmond, and W&M, and they stick out as the academic outlier of that group, but Monmouth is a reach. A very far reach. Monmouth (and Fairfield) are gunning for CAA.

Marist would love it. I've heard they've tried, often.

I think this comes down to reapproaching Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary, or maybe take a stab at other football-only options from NEC or Pioneer. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they could strike something up with Davidson. VMI...I wonder how Army and Navy would feel about that.

Agreed that this is a football issue and not an all-sports thing. I'm still confused by how Patriot handled its business. Had they gotten on this sooner, maybe they could have held Boston or Northeastern to keeping their football if it meant membership. They (Patriot) dragged their feet, and both dropped...and now they're "stuck" with Boston (as some Patriot fans aren't keen on them to begin with, as with American, who is a black-eye for their completion statistics).

My money's on Villanova. Their coach, who pushed like crazy to get to FBS, is gone sometime in the next 2-3 years, maybe sooner. They'll think this gets them closer to Penn on the recruitment and enrollment side. Their program gets a lot more local games out of it. The schools coming in might not upset the NIMBY/snobs of Radnor who don't want the athletic traffic through those parts. I suspect Villanova will go, but only if Richmond or W&M move with them.

And if Villanova can disregard the AI, like I believe Fordham is allowed to do.

Fordham ran ahead of scholarships, and that cost them shots at conference-recognized merit. It actually helped Patriot out because you could have Fordham whip the rest of Patsy, go as an at-large, and the recognized conference champ would get the AQ. I think this is the first year (or is it next?) where Fordham bouts count in the eyes of Patriot. I suspect a bigger football conference increases the chances of more spots in the FCS bracket.

I don't think Fordham ignores AI. I think *all* members adhere to it for sponsored sports, but some might steer their reporting within a certain, acceptable percentage of the number. As in, an average for the team, not an individual count? I don't know. I do know AI is costing Patriot ALL of those schools it reached out to in that W&M FOIA expose.

I wish Fordham would drop out of A10 and join Patriot full-on.

Villanova will probably not have a problem with AI once Talley leaves. I think Talley recruits a team with guys who are probably close to the mark, anyway, and that Patriot affiliation isn't happening because Patriot football is so much more inferior to CAAF. But, it's only a matter of time.

(10-30-2015 12:33 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 12:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 10:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I know Patriot approached UNH for football-only membership along with Villanova, Richmond, and W&M, and they stick out as the academic outlier of that group, but Monmouth is a reach. A very far reach. Monmouth (and Fairfield) are gunning for CAA.

Marist would love it. I've heard they've tried, often.

I think this comes down to reapproaching Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary, or maybe take a stab at other football-only options from NEC or Pioneer. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they could strike something up with Davidson. VMI...I wonder how Army and Navy would feel about that.

Agreed that this is a football issue and not an all-sports thing. I'm still confused by how Patriot handled its business. Had they gotten on this sooner, maybe they could have held Boston or Northeastern to keeping their football if it meant membership. They (Patriot) dragged their feet, and both dropped...and now they're "stuck" with Boston (as some Patriot fans aren't keen on them to begin with, as with American, who is a black-eye for their completion statistics).

My money's on Villanova. Their coach, who pushed like crazy to get to FBS, is gone sometime in the next 2-3 years, maybe sooner. They'll think this gets them closer to Penn on the recruitment and enrollment side. Their program gets a lot more local games out of it. The schools coming in might not upset the NIMBY/snobs of Radnor who don't want the athletic traffic through those parts. I suspect Villanova will go, but only if Richmond or W&M move with them.

And if Villanova can disregard the AI, like I believe Fordham is allowed to do.

Fordham ran ahead of scholarships, and that cost them shots at conference-recognized merit. It actually helped Patriot out because you could have Fordham whip the rest of Patsy, go as an at-large, and the recognized conference champ would get the AQ. I think this is the first year (or is it next?) where Fordham bouts count in the eyes of Patriot. I suspect a bigger football conference increases the chances of more spots in the FCS bracket.

I don't think Fordham ignores AI. I think *all* members adhere to it for sponsored sports, but some might steer their reporting within a certain, acceptable percentage of the number. As in, an average for the team, not an individual count? I don't know. I do know AI is costing Patriot ALL of those schools it reached out to in that W&M FOIA expose.

I wish Fordham would drop out of A10 and join Patriot full-on.

Villanova will probably not have a problem with AI once Talley leaves. I think Talley recruits a team with guys who are probably close to the mark, anyway, and that Patriot affiliation isn't happening because Patriot football is so much more inferior to CAAF. But, it's only a matter of time.

Thanks for your post.

Fordham and Villanova should force the issue. Kill the AI for Patriot football, or they both walk.

There's no reason it should be a conference wide rule.


Let Lehigh, Lafayette, et al enforce their own strict standards in admissions.

(10-30-2015 01:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Fordham and Villanova should force the issue. Kill the AI for Patriot football, or they both walk.

There's no reason it should be a conference wide rule.

Remember who anointed that conference, and they use it, too. In fact, I think IL's is even higher than PL's.