Would Monmouth be willing to leave the MAAC?

Hear me out. Suppose for a moment that the next round of expansion finds the AAC picked over by the Big 12 and ACC and the only teams left in the conference are SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Temple and UConn. Could UConn consider trying to return to the Big East for all sports, except football, which the conference doesn't sponsor? If so, would they consider applying to the MAC or would playing on the same level as Georgetown make more sense to them? I ask because it appears that the Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC have little or no interest in UConn, so in this scenario, UConn's choices would be to go independent, apply to the MAC or drop down in football and re-focus on basketball.

(11-01-2015 03:53 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Would Monmouth be willing to leave the MAAC?

For the right move, yes. Monmouth is ambitious.

One thing to keep in mind is that they were willing to let their football program flounder a bit to get the rest of their sports into a better conference when they left the NEC for the MAAC a few years ago. Arguably the Big South is better than the NEC in football, so it worked out alright, but it was no guarantee that they would land on their feet. For now Monmouth appears to view basketball as the flagship program. MAAC basketball is better than Patriot League basketball. That didn't matter to Loyola Maryland, who wanted the move for academic and lacrosse reasons. Monmouth might also like the academics, but I'm not sure that they would value football or lacrosse over basketball at this point.

That being said, Monmouth's academics aren't in line with the Patriot. If you look at US News rankings (not a perfect metric, but an available one), most of their members are high-ranked National Liberal Arts Colleges or National Universities. Only new member Loyola is a Regional University, although their rank in that category is #3. You've got to get down to #36 to find Monmouth. That's no disrespect--it's still a good school--but the point of an academic-centric league is to get programs who are competing on the same level because they have similar academic needs. Monmouth would have too much flexibility to recruit athletes compared to the other programs.

I could see Monmouth being tempted by CAA membership if they ever needed new members. It's a bit lateral of a move for basketball, but a bit of an upgrade for other sports. At this point, I don't see the A-10 or anyone else being interested in Monmouth.

(11-01-2015 07:58 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Hear me out. Suppose for a moment that the next round of expansion finds the AAC picked over by the Big 12 and ACC and the only teams left in the conference are SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Temple and UConn. Could UConn consider trying to return to the Big East for all sports, except football, which the conference doesn't sponsor? If so, would they consider applying to the MAC or would playing on the same level as Georgetown make more sense to them? I ask because it appears that the Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC have little or no interest in UConn, so in this scenario, UConn's choices would be to go independent, apply to the MAC or drop down in football and re-focus on basketball.

Its widely acknowledged there may be a tipping point where UConn considers the BE.

Where that tipping point is nobody knows. It will depend on a lot of factors. The next AAC TV deal value. What reloading teams are available.

To the 6 schools you mentioned they could add Rice, Buffalo, Army and UMass to keep the conference afloat and would likely be enough to save the TV deal.

UConn I think feels eventually the ACC is decimated to the point where it has to look its way. They were a favorite to get the ACC spot until Louisville made a late push to steal it away from them. It may take 10-20 years for that opening to occur for UConn.

(10-31-2015 11:45 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  The Patriot League schools (except Georgetown) now grant full football scholarships (up to the FCS limit).

Monmouth plays football only in the Big South Conference and would be a good candidate for f/b only membership in the Patriot League. They have played Patriot schools Lehigh & Colgate in the past and this year played against Holy Cross & Fordham.

Correction: the Patriot League now allows all members to offer up to 63 scholarship (equivalencies) for football.

That doesn't mean they all do. I don't think most can afford it, frankly. That was another reason why they used regular need-based aid for football players.


But then beyond that, there's the league anti-competitive rule called the AI. It basically says "you're not allowed to recruit too many under-represented minority recruits from the inner cities into our rich, white, country-club schools, because we don't want to sully our reputation with the Ivy League too much".

That's a huge turn off for a lot of schools.

(11-01-2015 09:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  But then beyond that, there's the league anti-competitive rule called the AI. It basically says "you're not allowed to recruit too many under-represented minority recruits from the inner cities into our rich, white, country-club schools, because we don't want to sully our reputation with the Ivy League too much".

That's a huge turn off for a lot of schools.

What's the admit rate at most of these schools? 20-40%? They aren't hurting.

Blow it out your kazoo with that bit about AI. Admissions into any of the schools in D1 can be brutal. It's unfair to turn away students with numbers within or just outside acceptability for what a lot of these schools for football and basketball. And for free rides, no less. The Patriot (and Ivy) models are there to make sure schools are accountable to their admission standards. Ironically enough, they shouldn't have to, since all but Army and Navy are private schools, and can do whatever they want.

Kids who don't choose the athletics route are tossed into a pressure cooker during their youth. It's soul crushing and faith testing to see what some schools will do for the sake of the pigskin and peach baskets. Utter betrayal to the cause and mission of these places.

(11-01-2015 10:39 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 09:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  But then beyond that, there's the league anti-competitive rule called the AI. It basically says "you're not allowed to recruit too many under-represented minority recruits from the inner cities into our rich, white, country-club schools, because we don't want to sully our reputation with the Ivy League too much".

That's a huge turn off for a lot of schools.

What's the admit rate at most of these schools? 20-40%? They aren't hurting.

Blow it out your kazoo with that bit about AI. Admissions into any of the schools in D1 can be brutal. It's unfair to turn away students with numbers within or just outside acceptability for what a lot of these schools for football and basketball. And for free rides, no less. The Patriot (and Ivy) models are there to make sure schools are accountable to their admission standards. Ironically enough, they shouldn't have to, since all but Army and Navy are private schools, and can do whatever they want.

Kids who don't choose the athletics route are tossed into a pressure cooker during their youth. It's soul crushing and faith testing to see what some schools will do for the sake of the pigskin and peach baskets. Utter betrayal to the cause and mission of these places.

I'm trying to piece together from your post, what your actual argument is for requiring the AI to be a conference wide rule.

Doesn't seem to be much of an argument there, other than to appease the IL, which I already said is the sole reason.


Letting football coaches admit 20 kids a year who aren't close to the rest of the admitted class won't do diddly squat to the school's reputation.

If the players can't hack it at the school, legitimately, then fine. They'll transfer. No harm done.

The only ones who should "blow it up their kazoos" are the IL. They have nothing to do with the PL.

(11-01-2015 09:06 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 07:58 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Hear me out. Suppose for a moment that the next round of expansion finds the AAC picked over by the Big 12 and ACC and the only teams left in the conference are SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Navy, Temple and UConn. Could UConn consider trying to return to the Big East for all sports, except football, which the conference doesn't sponsor? If so, would they consider applying to the MAC or would playing on the same level as Georgetown make more sense to them? I ask because it appears that the Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC have little or no interest in UConn, so in this scenario, UConn's choices would be to go independent, apply to the MAC or drop down in football and re-focus on basketball.

Its widely acknowledged there may be a tipping point where UConn considers the BE.

Where that tipping point is nobody knows. It will depend on a lot of factors. The next AAC TV deal value. What reloading teams are available.

To the 6 schools you mentioned they could add Rice, Buffalo, Army and UMass to keep the conference afloat and would likely be enough to save the TV deal.

UConn I think feels eventually the ACC is decimated to the point where it has to look its way. They were a favorite to get the ACC spot until Louisville made a late push to steal it away from them. It may take 10-20 years for that opening to occur for UConn.

Maybe in the media, but where it counts they were by no means a favorite.

Here is something that is coming up in how stable the CAA really is? The CAA lost three football members to FBS.
Old Dominion, U. Mass. and Georgia State.
CAA only replaced them with basketball only schools and Stony Brook and Albany as affiliates.

The MAC seems to be interested in 4 schools. 3 of the 4 could say yes in a heartbeat.
James Madison, Stony Brook and Towson might be the 3 that would say yes. What is holding them up right now? Delaware.
Delaware needs to decide if they want to go now, not later.

That means MAC could get U. Mass. back as an all sports member as 17th, and either Missouri State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa or North Dakota State as the 18th full member.

East:
James Madison
U. Mass.
Buffalo
Delaware
Stony Brook
Towson

Ohio:
Ohio U.
Toledo
Miami
Akron
Kent State
Bowling Green

Western
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Western Michigan
Ball State
Northern Illinois
Missouri State/Northern Iowa/Illinois State/North Dakota State

Villanova, Richmond and William and Mary could move to the Patriot League as an all sports member.

Elon, Charleston Southern and UNC-Wilmington could go to the Southern.

URI, New Hampshire, Maine, Albany, Monmouth NJ and Central Connecticutt State could form a new American East football conference with Long Island Post and Indiana Pa. moving up from D2.

Le Moyne was a name that was tossed up for D1 move up. I think they have the same type of Culture as the Patriot League which might fit.