First three paragraphs then the link:

I’m a big fan of irony, which is why I enjoyed this Wall Street Journal profile of Charles Koch so much. In an interview with Patrick O’Connor, Charles – evidently the more diplomatic half of the two most politically active Koch brothers – spoke somberly about the tone of the 2016 presidential race and of political discourse more generally. “It’s mainly about personalities and ‘your mother sucked rotten eggs,’” he lamented to O’Connor.

On the one hand, I understand Charles’s frustration. After all, he and his brother are looking to invest $750 million on this election. When a man, his brother, and 450 wealthy donors build a national network of umbrella organizations in order to dictate political outcomes via dark money, they expect to get the results they want.

Here’s the problem: The Koch brothers, whether they know it or not, got exactly what they paid for. If the tone of our politics has sunk to Cro-Magnon levels, it’s because the process has been flooded with money and propaganda and rabid right-wingers who’ve coarsened the discourse and made compromise impossible.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/charles_...e_results/

There is no such thing as politics without money. Not now. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. Not ever.

Go on ban Super PACs. It won't matter. Go on ban contributions to parties and candidates outright. It won't matter.

It takes money to run a campaign to be elected ... even at the level of local city council. And because you, Joe Naive Public, have vested so much trust and power in our political institutions, and given them the ability to tax nearly infinitely in nearly infinite ways, those very same political institutions act as giant inexhaustible piggy banks. Don't have enough money? No problem go into debt. Future generations aren't able to vote against you, and those receiving the benefits will gladly vote for you. Can't borrow any more? No problem just raise taxes. People fleeing your taxes? No problem just cut services. It's spiraling out of control and you're going bankrupt? No problem just have the state or feds bail you out with other people's tax money.

Government is concentrated power. Concentrated money. With little hoopla. Little attention. Little fanfare. Little transparency. It is the perfect breeding ground for corrupt crony capitalism. So if you remove all the money ... only the rich will run. Gee I wonder if rich people who have the power to invest enormous assets quietly, with insider knowledge, might abuse their office to make profit? Hmmmmmm? Ya think? Just maybe?

Man liberals are terrifying when they talk about anything related to money.

(10-28-2015 07:20 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  First three paragraphs then the link:

I’m a big fan of irony, which is why I enjoyed this Wall Street Journal profile of Charles Koch so much. In an interview with Patrick O’Connor, Charles – evidently the more diplomatic half of the two most politically active Koch brothers – spoke somberly about the tone of the 2016 presidential race and of political discourse more generally. “It’s mainly about personalities and ‘your mother sucked rotten eggs,’” he lamented to O’Connor.

On the one hand, I understand Charles’s frustration. After all, he and his brother are looking to invest $750 million on this election. When a man, his brother, and 450 wealthy donors build a national network of umbrella organizations in order to dictate political outcomes via dark money, they expect to get the results they want.

Here’s the problem: The Koch brothers, whether they know it or not, got exactly what they paid for. If the tone of our politics has sunk to Cro-Magnon levels, it’s because the process has been flooded with money and propaganda and rabid right-wingers who’ve coarsened the discourse and made compromise impossible.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/charles_...e_results/

And the left hasn't had anything to do with the problem. I guess you're too young to recall the Bork and Thomas hearings (or even earlier John Tower), or how the Clinton's were progenitor's of the phrase "politics of personal destruction." Further, you ignore the dark money of Soros, Steyer and many others (in the Hill's case, foreign nationals). And as if this President has been the pinnacle of political compromise, you seek to lay the blame on the GOP and its backers for an inability to govern. There's more than enough blame to be shared by both sides. To suggest otherwise shows nothing more than a denial of reality, it shows a basic disregard for the principles of the sane discourse you so poorly defend. I thought you were better than this. Apparently my thoughts were wrong.

Salon.com lol.

Wow, Like the Democrats didn't have billions of dollars in Shadowy money spent on and are still spending on elections since before JFK got in office ! The Koch's are at least open about it. And We aren't even talking about the Free pro Democrat bias from NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and all of Hollywood TV and film, RIAA Guilds, Unions, Greenpeace, Sierra club , NAACP, Universities and schools teachers and professors and countless other groups that are very vocal about supporting the democrat party.

The only way to money out of government is to get government out of the business of allocating money.

As long as government is allocating winners and losers, those who want to win will spend money to influence government.

(10-28-2015 07:20 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here’s the problem: The Koch brothers, whether they know it or not, got exactly what they paid for. If the tone of our politics has sunk to Cro-Magnon levels, it’s because the process has been flooded with money and propaganda and rabid right-wingers who’ve coarsened the discourse and made compromise impossible.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/charles_...e_results/

Right clearly all the money has come from big interest in the republicans... Not like Soros and the Unions have outspent them...

Boys the answer is to make dark money light. As long as we had sunshine on things we could discern things. We need to get rid of the dark money.

(10-28-2015 11:14 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Boys the answer is to make dark money light. As long as we had sunshine on things we could discern things. We need to get rid of the dark money.

So the answer is to prevent an American from being able to contribute money to another American running a non profit without the fear of political and personal attacks and possible punishment (see Brendan Eich)...

Look this is all unicorn type stuff and should be issue number 20,132 of things we need to fix. The first being a government that operates only within it's constitutionally defined role.

Mach, I look forward to the Democrat's announcement that they will no longer accept dark money.

(10-28-2015 07:46 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Salon.com lol.

"Former" Political Science Professor, the author.

Yea, I'm sure he's an honest broker and clear headed reviewer of the current landscape. Then this clown is all over the maap blaming the Kochs for the TEA Party (hardly) the horrifying "Government shutdowns" (My GOD!!! How do we survive every Friday P.M. to Monday A.M.?!? and eventually Trump.

Pssst!!! Perfesser! Trump ain' no TEA Partyier, just a little nugget for your consideration.

Can I please get my 90 seconds back? Thx.

What I love is how the leftists cry about how the Republicans are bought and sold by the Koch Brothers while completely ignoring the fact that Soros donates almost twice as much to the Dims, or the fact that Tom Steyr alone has donated more money to leftists than the top 15 individual Republican donors COMBINED Maybe remove that plank from your own eye before you insist we remove the speck from ours.

Raymond Tusk

(10-28-2015 11:27 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 07:46 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Salon.com lol.

"Former" Political Science Professor, the author.

Yea, I'm sure he's an honest broker and clear headed reviewer of the current landscape. Then this clown is all over the maap blaming the Kochs for the TEA Party (hardly) the horrifying "Government shutdowns" (My GOD!!! How do we survive every Friday P.M. to Monday A.M.?!? and eventually Trump.

Pssst!!! Perfesser! Trump ain' no TEA Partyier, just a little nugget for your consideration.

Can I please get my 90 seconds back? Thx.

I don't even click on it. Fit loves to link up Salon, Thinkprogress, and other lib sites.
Never take the bait.

Here's how I'd clean it up

1) Every donor must be a live human being and a US citizen
2) All PACs and other political groups must passthrough all activity reporting to the human beings that funded it.
3) Tax political donations. How about a 30% tax.
4) Use that 30% as follows: 20% goes to the general fund and 10% goes to the other side
5) Ban the use of 501 © 3s or 4s.
6) Ban the use of tax free property for political activity of any kind, including campaigning for or against ballot referenda
7) Institute a 30% tax on lobbying.

(10-28-2015 11:30 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Raymond Tusk

Or Barlow Connally.

(10-28-2015 11:14 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Boys the answer is to make dark money light. As long as we had sunshine on things we could discern things. We need to get rid of the dark money.

Yes, and money in politics suddenly happened starting in 2003.

Sorry, this "author" is a moron. He might be a bit bent cause as money is Constitutionally permitted from additional sources, the money coming from his buddies and groups he supports is marginalized.


Guess his Union dues just aren't going quite as far as they used too, let's scream KOCH BROTHERSSSSSS!!!!!

(10-28-2015 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's how I'd clean it up

1) Every donor must be a live human being and a US citizen
2) All PACs and other political groups must passthrough all activity reporting to the human beings that funded it.
3) Tax political donations. How about a 30% tax.
4) Use that 30% as follows: 20% goes to the general fund and 10% goes to the other side
5) Ban the use of 501 © 3s or 4s.
6) Ban the use of tax free property for political activity of any kind, including campaigning for or against ballot referenda
7) Institute a 30% tax on lobbying.

Make the $3 political campaign donation on tax returns mandatory for all taxpayers, split the pot evenly, let the campaigns decide how to use the money and ban the use of all other funds in campaigning.

(10-28-2015 11:45 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Make the $3 political campaign donation on tax returns mandatory for all taxpayers, split the pot evenly, let the campaigns decide how to use the money and ban the use of all other funds in campaigning.

Right because 30% of my income is not enough... And split evenly between who? I typically vote 3rd party.