I'll start a new thread because, IMO, the Ken Pomery rankings are the best in the business for college hoops. With all the uncertainty, looks like the MAC is getting some respect.

75. Akron
80. Central Michigan
114. Kent State
121. Western Michigan (maybe not taking in the Tava injury in account?)
136. Buffalo
144. Toledo
166. Miami
181. Eastern Michigan
184. Ball State
185. Northern Illinois
230. Bowling Green
254. Ohio

10 of the 12 are in the top 185 (175.5 is the mid point). So 83 percent of the league is predicted to be around average, or above. I disagree with Ohio, too. Adding a versatile big guy in Kaminski alone (who would've been in the MSU rotation... The No. 18 team) is enough to make them average.

I do agree that BG will be the only sub 200 team when it's finished. But BG has freshman guard Anthony Carmon, who could be the MAC freshman of the year due to volume he will get in terms of PT. Kid is big-time underrated.

Edit: Mixed up Cleveland freshmen guards. BG has Antwon Lillard from Cleveland Central Catholic, who is most known for being called for a (bogus) technical on what wouldve been the game winning dunk in last year's D3 State title game. Lillard is a nice player, but won't push BG up this year.

Carmon is at Lawson State CC, and if he gets his grades together, will be a high major in the next couple of years.

Buffalo is getting a lot of love for a team that lost the POY and their next best player, went through a huge amount of turmoil and has a new coach. Rebound effect from their NCAA appearance, great recruiting class, or what?

(10-28-2015 05:09 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Buffalo is getting a lot of love for a team that lost the POY and their next best player, went through a huge amount of turmoil and has a new coach. Rebound effect from their NCAA appearance, great recruiting class, or what?

While I tend to agree they are being ranked a bit too high, an argument could be made that they are pretty much in the exact same position they were coming into last year.

At the start of last year, Justin Moss was just a 9 minute per game 4 points 3 rebounds kid. We had lost Javon McCrea to graduation. We were in our second year under Hurley after a disappointing early exit in the MAC tournament his first year. We had Shannon Evans as a sophomore after a promising freshman year, though not quite enough to garner FOTY.

Now, we have Oats moving over to HC who was an assistant last year, and by all accounts we are running a similar scheme to Hurley. Our new star is our Sophomore Bearden who had a great freshman year, though not quite enough to garner FOTY. We don't yet know how we will fill Moss's minutes but it will almost certainly be by committee.

Skeete has looked great in practice. Bearden should take another step forward. Wigginton was a strong 6th man that will now be asked to make a big contribution his final year. Freshman Nick Perkins has by all accounts been doing well and should play good minutes. We reloaded with JUCOs. We have better depth than before.

We are just as much a question mark this year as we were the start of last year. I don't know if we can catch lightning in a bottle again this year but I wouldn't rule it out.

If whoever ends up being the best MAC team finishes the season being no better than #75, it is a grim year for the MAC.

(10-28-2015 05:43 AM)GoBullsGo Wrote:  <snip>
While I tend to agree they (Buffalo) are being ranked a bit too high, an argument could be made that they are pretty much in the exact same position they were coming into last year.

<snip>

Now, we have Oats moving over to HC who was an assistant last year, and by all accounts we are running a similar scheme to Hurley. Our new star is our Sophomore Bearden who had a great freshman year, though not quite enough to garner FOTY. We don't yet know how we will fill Moss's minutes but it will almost certainly be by committee.

<snip>

We are just as much a question mark this year as we were the start of last year. I don't know if we can catch lightning in a bottle again this year but I wouldn't rule it out.

I think the lightning left to go to the Arizona. I think a lot of the success last two seasons was due to Hurley - I wouldn't be surprised if the development you saw in Moss and Evans was due to Hurley. You can't lose 3 of the top guys (Hurley, Moss, and Evans) in the MAC and not expect to take a drop

Axeme wrote: If whoever ends up being the best MAC team finishes the season being no better than #75, it is a grim year for the MAC.

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eCK: That's exactly what I was thinking when reading the rankings.

(10-28-2015 08:44 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 05:43 AM)GoBullsGo Wrote:  <snip>
While I tend to agree they (Buffalo) are being ranked a bit too high, an argument could be made that they are pretty much in the exact same position they were coming into last year.

<snip>

Now, we have Oats moving over to HC who was an assistant last year, and by all accounts we are running a similar scheme to Hurley. Our new star is our Sophomore Bearden who had a great freshman year, though not quite enough to garner FOTY. We don't yet know how we will fill Moss's minutes but it will almost certainly be by committee.

<snip>

We are just as much a question mark this year as we were the start of last year. I don't know if we can catch lightning in a bottle again this year but I wouldn't rule it out.

I think the lightning left to go to the Arizona. I think a lot of the success last two seasons was due to Hurley - I wouldn't be surprised if the development you saw in Moss and Evans was due to Hurley. You can't lose 3 of the top guys (Hurley, Moss, and Evans) in the MAC and not expect to take a drop

It's entirely possible that Hurley is the reason for the Bulls recent success I personally think he's a great coach that will end up at a high major basketball powerhouse before the end of his career. With that said, Buffalo has sustained at least moderate success for quite a while now and with the quality of recruits it has been bringing in recently I don't see them at the bottom of the MAC.

i think they have Ohio and Miami switched!

Mike Laster was a true freshman for Ohio last year that averaged 18min/gm. There are only 2 players on this year's roster with more career minutes than Laster.

Ohio has a lot of potential, but they are very inexperienced. VERY.

(10-28-2015 06:59 AM)axeme Wrote:  If whoever ends up being the best MAC team finishes the season being no better than #75, it is a grim year for the MAC.

Grim is an overstatement. The MAC usually only has two teams in the top 80, and two will start there in the Pomeroy rankings. I'll have to look at CMU's schedule, but Akron will have some big opportunities early to move up.

I was more looking at the middle and back of the league, which seems to be higher than normal. Only two teams outside the top 185 is better than normal. And I think Ohio will be at least a top 200 team, so not a lot of dead weight (ala NIU being in the 300s).

No, it doesn't look like it will be a two bid league, but I think the league continues to get better. And this was always, IMO, going to be a transition year with Buffalo losing Hurley, Toledo and EMU losing a ton and Ohio rebuilding.

I have generally thought the quality of the conference is measured at the top and no teams in the top 50 means mid major irrelevance. I'd much rather have two top 50 teams and a couple of teams over 300 than all the teams bunched from 75-200.

It's a moot point since the pomeroy rankings or any other computerized rankings rely on results of which there are none. It remains to be seen which teams will be in which tier. This starting point is meaningless. Pomeroy is only as good as his data. Might be worth a look later in December when there is data.

Fans love to give validity to rankings that put their team first. And I think Pomeroy is Ok, but it's one of a bunch that are different from each other and all have some good angles they look from.

(10-28-2015 11:21 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  i think they have Ohio and Miami switched!

Miami finished 3 games ahead of Ohio in the standings, and has much more returning (8 of the 10 man rotation). So that would seem to be a logical pick. Perhaps OU will bounce back big after a bad season, but they do have quite a bit to prove after last year.

The way I see it, there is CMU, and then the rest of the MAC is so jumbled up, its hard to say who will fall from 2 to 12, so many interchangeable parts. Parity, but a good parity, so many talented teams.

(10-28-2015 05:09 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Buffalo is getting a lot of love for a team that lost the POY and their next best player, went through a huge amount of turmoil and has a new coach. Rebound effect from their NCAA appearance, great recruiting class, or what?

A lot of these early projections use last year's ending point as a starting point for this year

(11-01-2015 10:04 PM)DICK Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 11:21 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  i think they have Ohio and Miami switched!

Miami finished 3 games ahead of Ohio in the standings, and has much more returning (8 of the 10 man rotation). So that would seem to be a logical pick. Perhaps OU will bounce back big after a bad season, but they do have quite a bit to prove after last year.

Looking at the recently-released MAC media poll, it would seem they agree more with me than with this projection.

(10-28-2015 02:28 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  I disagree with Ohio, too. Adding a versatile big guy in Kaminski alone (who would've been in the MSU rotation... The No. 18 team) is enough to make them average.

These rankings are based on a formula that Pomeroy came up with. The biggest problem with this is that he doesn't include transfers in his calculation so this is interesting to talk about but suspect to say the least. Using Ohio as an example, 40% of their starting lineup will be transfers.

Sports Illustrated has Miami 5th in the MAC at #165 and Ohio 10th at #217.
so it is not just Ken Pom.

Sadly, we probably won't learn anything about CMU until conference play. Keno Davis, like Hawkins at WMU, said they had a hard time finding teams to take them on and for that reason play several division twos, threes or NIAA schools. Feels like a huge missed chance for that program with the returning talent they have.

(11-05-2015 01:27 AM)vannzee Wrote:  Sadly, we probably won't learn anything about CMU until conference play. Keno Davis, like Hawkins at WMU, said they had a hard time finding teams to take them on and for that reason play several division twos, threes or NIAA schools. Feels like a huge missed chance for that program with the returning talent they have.

our schedule is a flat out joke. I find it hard to believe that with all of the bb teams and conferences such as the Missouri, Ohio Valley, A-10, USA, etc, we could not find more similar programs to face. I feel for the players, how do you get pumped to play a college named Lordes??
It also really stinks for fans, who is going to want to drive 2/12 hrs from metro Detroit to see CMU whoop on Hillsdale or Ferris?

(11-05-2015 07:41 AM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 01:27 AM)vannzee Wrote:  Sadly, we probably won't learn anything about CMU until conference play. Keno Davis, like Hawkins at WMU, said they had a hard time finding teams to take them on and for that reason play several division twos, threes or NIAA schools. Feels like a huge missed chance for that program with the returning talent they have.

our schedule is a flat out joke. I find it hard to believe that with all of the bb teams and conferences such as the Missouri, Ohio Valley, A-10, USA, etc, we could not find more similar programs to face. I feel for the players, how do you get pumped to play a college named Lordes??
It also really stinks for fans, who is going to want to drive 2/12 hrs from metro Detroit to see CMU whoop on Hillsdale or Ferris?

NIU has a similar schedule with I believe 4 lower division teams on the schedule. I don't know if they tried for better teams and they wouldn't play us or what.