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Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
Quote: Look through the list and find a trainwreck. I Never said that you said they "only" give to trainwrecks. But Jenner is the first and you have to ask yourself why?

Because it was the first year that someone that I would describe that way got enough public attention to get the award? I've proven pretty clearly it's nothing more than a marketed award, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing at this point.

Quote:What does the date of the award have to do with my underlying point. that up until Jenner the Ashe award winners were classy people, like Ashe himself. In 2009 people were reflecting on Mandella. He was old, sick, and what he did to unite people was in the news. In 1997 Ali was in the spotlight because he did the torch in Atlanta and folks were remembering what he did as an athlete and for society.

And unlike 2008, 2007, 2006, etc, etc there was a major motion film about his life coming out. You're not helping yourself here. Ali got in 1997 because he would bring viewers. Mandela got it the year he did because he would bring viewers. Go down the list of the winners, is there anyone who fits the bill of 'truly inspiring person who is not famous or is not somehow involved in some major international crisis/national issue to hook viewers with'. Of course not, because that's not what the award is. IT'S A MARKETING PLOY.

Quote: You asked who had heard of them, and two have chimed in. The audience is 2,000,000 a year. I'm not sure that your dismissal of them *becsuse "dud it's the espys" is at all material. I don't give a shaq about the Gramies or the Oscars. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China.

My dismissal is that it's not an important award, it's a marketing gimmick. I really, truly don't know how else to make it more obvious than it already is. It's a way to get viewers. Jenner got viewers. I couldn't care less whether or not she got the award, but then again I don't watch the ESPY's regardless. I'm guessing you can't say the same?
10-25-2015 06:21 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 06:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
Quote: Look through the list and find a trainwreck. I Never said that you said they "only" give to trainwrecks. But Jenner is the first and you have to ask yourself why?

Because it was the first year that someone that I would describe that way got enough public attention to get the award?

Do you seriously believe in 20+ years this is remotely true?
10-25-2015 06:26 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 06:26 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(10-25-2015 06:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
Quote: Look through the list and find a trainwreck. I Never said that you said they "only" give to trainwrecks. But Jenner is the first and you have to ask yourself why?

Because it was the first year that someone that I would describe that way got enough public attention to get the award?

Do you seriously believe in 20+ years this is remotely true?

I don't know, and I don't really care because it really doesn't have anything to do with the position I'm taking. That award is a marketing ploy to get viewers by using an issue or person they can market so people watch. It worked with you and Ali, didn't it?
10-25-2015 06:29 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 05:33 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  yep, the visceral hate from some makes it a story...


silly comment.
10-25-2015 07:18 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
UCF, you never heard of the award and yet, like every topic, you're the resident expert on it.
10-25-2015 07:21 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 07:21 PM)Paul M Wrote:  UCF, you never heard of the award and yet, like every topic, you're the resident expert on it.

It doesn't take an expert to look at the award recipients and see the one thing they have in common, they are meant to draw viewers. I'd be open to other explanations, of course, but no one is really presenting them.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2015 07:43 PM by UCF08.)
10-25-2015 07:42 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #67
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 07:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-25-2015 05:33 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  yep, the visceral hate from some makes it a story...


silly comment.

Yes, all your comments are...we expect nothing less from you.
10-25-2015 07:43 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
Greg Lou Gayness


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10-25-2015 07:53 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Hey guys did you hear, Princeton has a gay football player!
(10-25-2015 01:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-24-2015 02:35 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(10-24-2015 01:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-23-2015 09:58 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Really? You and I both know there are plenty of people who care.

not anybody who matters.

(10-24-2015 12:13 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm saying he cared exactly as much as was required for him to make this post which concerns the fact that Princeton has a gay football player, as explicitly stated in the OP's title. I am saying absolutely nothing else about the OP besides that. I don't know how to make it any simpler for you, and I'm not certain repeating myself will make a difference.

But you should also be smart enough to know that the only part about it that matters is whether or not he can play. When people say they 'care' about something, they mean it makes a difference to their opinion on the person.

It has been claimed... and not merely implied... that the reason Sam didn't make it in the NFL was ONLY because he was gay. THOSE people obviously care about his sexual orientation and ESPN seems to be trying to reach out to that community. I see no evidence that anyone else cares anything about these guys other than whether or not they can play football.... including the OP.

I think you're being shortsighted with this comment. ESPN wants viewers, and they get viewers by doing things like this because it not only attracts those who you think it does, it attracts people who disagree with it too. Controversy sells.


Tom is whom I was speaking about... and he responded almost on queue. You're right about this though... but that isn't ESPN caring about whether or not he is gay, but merely caring about the 'hoopla'.

There are all sorts of athletes who are gay... some more obvious than others... see Johnny Weir vs Greg Louganis. If people like Tom want to celebrate Weir more than Louganis, that's fine... but since I don't care about their sexual orientation, and instead only their competitive skills, I would measure them differently.

People are entitled to their own opinions, but I don't see someone 'coming out' in 2000 as being more worthy of praise than someone who suffered in silence in 1985. Greg was 'outed' by a freak injury... but his success as an athlete before that point actually created opportunities for guys like Weir.

Being gay (or not) has nothing to do with someone's athletic skills. It MAY have something to do with how they focus whatever talents they have, but it doesn't make them more or less skilled. All sport in 2015 cares about is money.

Actually Weir, for a variety of valid reasons, is not particularly popular with the mainstream LGBT community.

---

But Louganis and Weir do have something in common. They don't play TEAM sports. There's much less of a culture/bias issue in individual sports. And its harder to keep individual athletes down. There's also less of an influence of evangelical sporting organizations in the individual sports as well. So Gay athletes who might have enjoyed team sports tend to move towards individual sports.

For Gay football/baseball players, its pretty much 1975 on the Gay acceptance scale. 4 decades behind the times.

People substitute what they THINK should be the case, for what really is the case.

---

Several of you guys think that the fact that Princeton has a Gay player is news is appalling. I actually agree, but for a different reason.

Some people, who refuse to see the massive level of discrimination in team sports against Gay male players, think that it isn't news.

I think its appalling that the fact that a player on a liberal FCS team that never sends anyone to the NFL is out is somehow news. But unfortunately it is news. Why hasn't Rutgers ever had an openly Gay football player? Or any of the P5? Oh wait....there was that one guy...and he was SEC Player of the year....oops.
10-26-2015 10:37 AM
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