(10-20-2015 11:27 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Only good babies with guns can stop bad babies with guns.

---

As far as the drowning argument goes....

There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it. Its far more likely that something tragic will happen with it rather than you get the bad guy with it.

I think you and I agree, Tom.

I agree with this as well, access to guns should be restricted. The question is, can we do anything about it.

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:52 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Can we please stop blaming human failings on inanimate objects?

And before fitty accuses me of blaming the toddler, I'm blaming the adult responsible for both the child AND the one responsible for the firearm.

Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Seems to be more of an issue in more urban areas, where I live almost everyone has a gun and I haven't heard of even a hunting incident in years, and outside of the heroin problem the area is facing the crime rate is almost nill outside of a few breaking and entering cases where the couple was just caught a couple weeks ago.

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:27 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Only good babies with guns can stop bad babies with guns.

---

As far as the drowning argument goes....

There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it. Its far more likely that something tragic will happen with it rather than you get the bad guy with it.

I think you and I agree, Tom.

I agree with this as well, access to guns should be restricted. The question is, can we do anything about it.

That's not what Tom or I wrote. While I run the risk of speaking for him, the element you seem to miss is personal responsibility.

In every case where a toddler shot somebody, there was someone older who should have known better and dropped the ball.

Don't deprive me of my constitutional rights. Punish THAT person.

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:52 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Can we please stop blaming human failings on inanimate objects?

And before fitty accuses me of blaming the toddler, I'm blaming the adult responsible for both the child AND the one responsible for the firearm.

Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Those people are idiots.

(10-20-2015 11:36 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:52 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Can we please stop blaming human failings on inanimate objects?

And before fitty accuses me of blaming the toddler, I'm blaming the adult responsible for both the child AND the one responsible for the firearm.

Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Seems to be more of an issue in more urban areas, where I live almost everyone has a gun and I haven't heard of even a hunting incident in years, and outside of the heroin problem the area is facing the crime rate is almost nill outside of a few breaking and entering cases where the couple was just caught a couple weeks ago.

I think you are on to something here. I would think that in rural areas, not only is there more need for a gun but the people who own them know more about how to use and secure them properly.

(10-20-2015 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:36 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Seems to be more of an issue in more urban areas, where I live almost everyone has a gun and I haven't heard of even a hunting incident in years, and outside of the heroin problem the area is facing the crime rate is almost nill outside of a few breaking and entering cases where the couple was just caught a couple weeks ago.

I think you are on to something here. I would think that in rural areas, not only is there more need for a gun but the people who own them know more about how to use and secure them properly.

Most, including me, are taught how to clean, load, shoot, and secure a gun at a young age due to the amount of hunting that is done in the winter season and range shooting in the summer (I myself do not hunt or own a gun for I see no need for either for myself).

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:27 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Only good babies with guns can stop bad babies with guns.

---

As far as the drowning argument goes....

There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it. Its far more likely that something tragic will happen with it rather than you get the bad guy with it.

I think you and I agree, Tom.

I agree with this as well, access to guns should be restricted. The question is, can we do anything about it.

I called it up thread...

"But! The push from guys like fit is not for parents to use common sense. It's for the government to *FORCE* them to use common sense or not have any options at all.."

Part of the problem is what is happening in some of the leftists posts in this very thread.......the false demonizing of guns. It's the forbidden fruit syndrome......you want what you can't have.


We started teaching my kids at an early age that guns were tools and just like a chainsaw if misused could be dangerous. My kids knew that the only thing they wee to ever point a gun at was something they intended to shoot, even toy guns. They knew that if they didn't follow this rule the consequences were severe. The lesson took so well that once my oldest son went to a birthday party where they were going to play paintball and wouldn't participate until he called me and got permission. (BTW he went on to dominate because he knew how to aim and shoot )

(10-20-2015 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I think you are on to something here. I would think that in rural areas, not only is there more need for a gun

Wait so the areas with fewer people and less violent crime. That's where there is more of a need?

Quote:but the people who own them know more about how to use and secure them properly.

Maybe it's because it's not treated like some mystical scary thing to hide from in those areas. Instead it's treated like a tool which can be dangerous if not respected.

(10-20-2015 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  We started teaching my kids at an early age that guns were tools and just like a chainsaw if misused could be dangerous. My kids knew that the only thing they wee to ever point a gun at was something they intended to shoot, even toy guns. They knew that if they didn't follow this rule the consequences were severe. The lesson took so well that once my oldest son went to a birthday party where they were going to play paintball and wouldn't participate until he called me and got permission. (BTW he went on to dominate because he knew how to aim and shoot )

Funny you say that, I am teaching my 10 and 8 year old about sawing and splitting wood. And I trust her more with an Ax now than I did at the start of the summer. She also is not as eager to "play" with it because she has used it for it's intended purpose.

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it.

I actually agree with you. I know several people who keep their pool covered until their kid can swim, or just keep the gate locked. Gun is the same way, shouldn't be around a kid that doesn't know how to use it, but that still doesn't make it the gun's fault. I'm not sure what Fit's reason behind posting is, unless he wants laws against parents owning guns as there are already laws against storing/keeping them within a childs reach

(10-20-2015 11:36 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:52 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Can we please stop blaming human failings on inanimate objects?

And before fitty accuses me of blaming the toddler, I'm blaming the adult responsible for both the child AND the one responsible for the firearm.

Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Seems to be more of an issue in more urban areas, where I live almost everyone has a gun and I haven't heard of even a hunting incident in years, and outside of the heroin problem the area is facing the crime rate is almost nill outside of a few breaking and entering cases where the couple was just caught a couple weeks ago.

In rural areas, people don't carry handguns around as much as in urban areas. And usually don't carry them around with them. Rural folks tend to prefer longarms.

Toddlers can't lift a rifle easily. Its heavy and hard to move. Its also big so its hard for a parent to just set it down and forget about it.

(10-20-2015 11:58 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I think you are on to something here. I would think that in rural areas, not only is there more need for a gun

Wait so the areas with fewer people and less violent crime. That's where there is more of a need?

Quote:but the people who own them know more about how to use and secure them properly.

Maybe it's because it's not treated like some mystical scary thing to hide from in those areas. Instead it's treated like a tool which can be dangerous if not respected.

I've never lived in a rural area but I would think that there is more need for a gun in these areas because response from law enforcement takes longer, there is likely more wild life in the area to either hunt or kill for safety reasons.

In the city, perhaps there is more violent crime but that is likely not to happen in the home. Unless you like to beat your wife up or something like that.

I'm just not aware of that many people getting into a physical confrontation in the city while at home.

(10-20-2015 12:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it.

I actually agree with you. I know several people who keep their pool covered until their kid can swim, or just keep the gate locked. Gun is the same way, shouldn't be around a kid that doesn't know how to use it, but that still doesn't make it the gun's fault. I'm not sure what Fit's reason behind posting is, unless he wants laws against parents owning guns as there are already laws against storing/keeping them within a childs reach

I don't know what he wants but I'd want

1) Requiring all guns to be sold with trigger locks
2) Increased fines and penalties for parents or adults that are careless with firearms and damage results

For a start.

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:52 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Can we please stop blaming human failings on inanimate objects?

And before fitty accuses me of blaming the toddler, I'm blaming the adult responsible for both the child AND the one responsible for the firearm.

Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

That would be my brother in law who has a 2 year old daughter. She has yet to shoot anyone. He carries everywhere and has 30+ guns at home, all locked up.

(10-20-2015 11:59 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  We started teaching my kids at an early age that guns were tools and just like a chainsaw if misused could be dangerous. My kids knew that the only thing they wee to ever point a gun at was something they intended to shoot, even toy guns. They knew that if they didn't follow this rule the consequences were severe. The lesson took so well that once my oldest son went to a birthday party where they were going to play paintball and wouldn't participate until he called me and got permission. (BTW he went on to dominate because he knew how to aim and shoot )

Funny you say that, I am teaching my 10 and 8 year old about sawing and splitting wood. And I trust her more with an Ax now than I did at the start of the summer. She also is not as eager to "play" with it because she has used it for it's intended purpose.

Same with my kids.

With both of them I took them shooting on my Uncle's farm. He always has a patch of citron melons (round melons that resemble a watermelon but much harder and IMO not as good to eat) that he uses for hog fodder. We would get a couple of them to shoot so they could see the effect of different types of guns, ammo, etc. Then I would say "OK imagine that is your head because it's very similar." They would also watch as we cleaned game on hunting trips and especially on deer and hogs would see what happened to the body when shot.

(10-20-2015 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it.

I actually agree with you. I know several people who keep their pool covered until their kid can swim, or just keep the gate locked. Gun is the same way, shouldn't be around a kid that doesn't know how to use it, but that still doesn't make it the gun's fault. I'm not sure what Fit's reason behind posting is, unless he wants laws against parents owning guns as there are already laws against storing/keeping them within a childs reach

I don't know what he wants but I'd want

1) Requiring all guns to be sold with trigger locks
2) Increased fines and penalties for parents or adults that are careless with firearms and damage results

For a start.

I've only purchased 1 gun in my life, but it came with a trigger lock, so that may already be in effect.

(10-20-2015 12:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  There's a reason that many parents don't buy houses with pools when they have infants. They're trying not to introduce danger into their child's environment.

Same principle should apply to firearms. Got a curious little toddler around? Keep the gun locked away or just get rid of it.

I actually agree with you. I know several people who keep their pool covered until their kid can swim, or just keep the gate locked. Gun is the same way, shouldn't be around a kid that doesn't know how to use it, but that still doesn't make it the gun's fault. I'm not sure what Fit's reason behind posting is, unless he wants laws against parents owning guns as there are already laws against storing/keeping them within a childs reach

I don't know what he wants but I'd want

1) Requiring all guns to be sold with trigger locks
2) Increased fines and penalties for parents or adults that are careless with firearms and damage results

For a start.

The problem with the trigger locks is that they make the gun essentially useless unless the criminal is going to give you time to find the key, unlock it, then (in most cases) struggle to get the damn thing out of the way. Every gun I've bought in the past 10 years has had a trigger lock or some other device which I immediately discard or toss in the box that then goes in storage.

My pistol stays loaded and within easy reach when I'm in my truck, not sure why anybody would have one in the backseat unless they are just careless. Laws vary by state dealing with punishment for leaving them around kids when something like this happens. I'm fine with more uniform penalties. Maybe aggravated assault or something when someone is injured and some sort of involuntary manslaughter if someone is killed. No point in throwing them in jail permanently, but weekend or one week a month would be a good start.

(10-20-2015 12:03 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I've never lived in a rural area but I would think that there is more need for a gun in these areas because response from law enforcement takes longer, there is likely more wild life in the area to either hunt or kill for safety reasons.

In the city, perhaps there is more violent crime but that is likely not to happen in the home. Unless you like to beat your wife up or something like that.

I'm just not aware of that many people getting into a physical confrontation in the city while at home.

I live on a farm 20 minutes from town in a area where state troopers don't patrol and the nearest sheriff's deputy is probably 15-20 minutes away at any given time. I wouldn't say I need a handgun any more than someone in Chicago, in fact the only time I've had to pull one in self defense was in downtown Greenville when I was in college. I do carry a pistol when hunting for emergencies, but rarely have need for anything but a rifle or shotgun otherwise.

(10-20-2015 12:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:36 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:32 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:26 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Guns don't kill people but access to guns makes it easier for people to kill people.

In what other way could a 3 year old kill another person? I can't think of many.

What dumb*** gave a 3 year old access to a gun? THERE's your culprit.

Most are those that treat firearms as 'everyday' objects and get too comfortable around them. They then get lazy and just leave them around. They also carry them with them and move them around more often than their security situation really justifies.

Some are paranoids who thinks he's (and yes, its almost always a he) going to be killed if he doesn't have 24/7 access to a loaded firearm within his arm's reach. So they keep multiple loaded guns around the house.

Seems to be more of an issue in more urban areas, where I live almost everyone has a gun and I haven't heard of even a hunting incident in years, and outside of the heroin problem the area is facing the crime rate is almost nill outside of a few breaking and entering cases where the couple was just caught a couple weeks ago.

In rural areas, people don't carry handguns around as much as in urban areas. And usually don't carry them around with them. Rural folks tend to prefer longarms.

Toddlers can't lift a rifle easily. Its heavy and hard to move. Its also big so its hard for a parent to just set it down and forget about it.

Complete and total BS. My Grandfather used to carry his J frame Smith and Wesson all the time on the farm. Rifles are too heavy to carry everywhere.

Whenever I'm in the woods I always have one of my sidearms with me, even when I am carrying my hunting rifle or shotgun.