The CFP is supposed to be a post season vehicle that delivers overwhelming excitement for the national championship race that is predominated by P5 member schools.

From a financial perspective its delivered as promised huge increase in money to the coffers of FBS schools. Money in college football though can only go so far.

The P5 traditionally controlled general fan interest through a combination of bowls & polls. They are what distinguished who was a serious program vs. an afterthought. P5's could use their undefeated records and bowl tie-in to legitimize #1 rankings.

Before G5's at most would have only 1-2 schools in play for a major bowl. That is because you had to be ranked so high to be in the conversation. Now there are 10+ G5 schools as late as November that can be hopeful for a major bowl game, about the same amount as could be hopeful in the P5 albeit for 5 major bowl games. Then for the minor bowls, G5 programs have options and locations that aren't very far behind in quality. The days of G5 schools with 8 to 10 wins being shut out of a bowl completely are over.

The playoff race isn't one the average fan can predict by looking at the AP Poll as it was in the past. The committee shuffles up the rankings week by week. Due to this you can't predict the rankings and there is more limited interest in seeing the rankings since they won't have a bearing on the rankings for subsequent weeks.

For sure the P5 was able to maintain some advantages like a 15 to 10 voting ratio over the G5 and most of the prime timeslots. The G5's though have 100 million dollar long term TV deals themselves and plenty of coverage. Obtaining even a SBC invite has become exclusive enough that Coastal Carolina needed deep pockets and an amazing plan to get in.

The net effect of the new system is that interest is going back to the conference races instead of the national race since its almost impossible to make the playoff without winning your conference or a major bowl. A P5 could get an at-large major bowl but for a 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th ranked P5 school its a consolation prize when you are in the hunt for a playoff spot.

The playoff itself is strange because the seedings of 1 through 4 don't really mean anything. It comes down to how a school plays on that particular day. Anyone that doesn't show up will get beat badly. It takes so much talent/coaching/discipline to get into the Top 4 these days that anyone can kill anyone.

Schools that are putting up 50-60 points a game against weak competition and then turning around the next week and doing it against a conference leader mean you can't compare scores or matchups anymore for it to say something. The whole concept of football strength has been undermined.

In basketball its usually a cold day in hell before you see schools like Kentucky or Lousivlle get trounced. Certainly not by a score of 110-14 like it would be when Texas lost to TCU 50-7. Losses where the donors decide enough is enough for supporting the program.

Comparitive strength using the polls?? Isn't that the infamous "eye test"?

IMO, the playoff has completely opened up the sport....it's way better than the BCS

The committee isn't perfect, but it's better than the polls....the polls are old, stupid, and archaic, and have outlived their usefulness...seriously, why does the coaches poll still exist??

Champions are crowned on the field, not in polls...the playoff brings the postseason closer to this ideal

OP, the playoff basically pits conference champs together and the team playing the best at the end of the season will likely win most years. The playoff is much better than the garbage BCS that we had for so long.

(10-18-2015 02:03 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  OP, the playoff basically pits conference champs together and the team playing the best at the end of the season will likely win most years. The playoff is much better than the garbage BCS that we had for so long.

If we had a 4 team playoff all along, I bet we'd have a vastly different list of champs

The problem is this. What if everybody in the P5 starts losing 2 or more games while Toledo and Memphis goes undefeated in the season? How can you say the 4 P5 conference champs have 2 or more losses, and ignore the G5 schools who went undefeated? Memphis should be ahead of Alabama in the polls.

Now, we need to replace the committee who are not really bias. Barry Alvarez said schools like TCU do not belong in the championship game. They put him on the committee? That is not somebody I want to choose teams since he have a prejudice against schools like TCU, Boise State, Oklahoma State and so forth. The playoffs is a big joke since you have people who are connected to P5 schools.

(10-18-2015 02:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 02:03 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  OP, the playoff basically pits conference champs together and the team playing the best at the end of the season will likely win most years. The playoff is much better than the garbage BCS that we had for so long.

If we had a 4 team playoff all along, I bet we'd have a vastly different list of champs

There's no question about that. If we didn't have a four team playoff last year, we definitely would've had a different champion. Also, if we had an eight team playoff last year, we also may have had a different champion.

(10-18-2015 04:41 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 02:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 02:03 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  OP, the playoff basically pits conference champs together and the team playing the best at the end of the season will likely win most years. The playoff is much better than the garbage BCS that we had for so long.

If we had a 4 team playoff all along, I bet we'd have a vastly different list of champs

There's no question about that. If we didn't have a four team playoff last year, we definitely would've had a different champion. Also, if we had an eight team playoff last year, we also may have had a different champion.

Yup. Same is true in basketball, where there have been national championship teams in 64-team fields that might not have even been in the tournament if the field was still 48 teams or less.

So what was Coastal's amazing plan.
They needed a stadium expansion anyway but not as big.
Coastal claims the Sun Belt approached them .
They did step up their expansion and it was a great move for Coastal.

Big South to SBC is a no brainer especially after they couldn't get in the CAA or SOCON.

(10-18-2015 04:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 04:41 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 02:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 02:03 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  OP, the playoff basically pits conference champs together and the team playing the best at the end of the season will likely win most years. The playoff is much better than the garbage BCS that we had for so long.

If we had a 4 team playoff all along, I bet we'd have a vastly different list of champs

There's no question about that. If we didn't have a four team playoff last year, we definitely would've had a different champion. Also, if we had an eight team playoff last year, we also may have had a different champion.

Yup. Same is true in basketball, where there have been national championship teams in 64-team fields that might not have even been in the tournament if the field was still 48 teams or less.

With the NCAA tournament they invite 68 teams. Some programs are basically a lock to go every year.

The sheer amount of games played make the seeding anyone's guess. Obviously schools will want higher seeds for the prestige alone. If they get screwed out of seed its not too large of a deal though because nobody could guess all the seeds right.

With the CFP, they take a school that was #1 all season and undefeated and decide to stick them in the rankings at #6 because they feel like it. There is a lot of whining going on right now about Baylor's schedule yet they average 62 points a game and they play in the second strongest P5 conference by the computers.

Going from #1 to #6 pushes a school out of the playoff. Going from #1 to #6 in basketball drops a #1 seed down to a #2 seed for the tournament with negligible impact.

Programs like Ohio State, Alabama and Florida State recruit 5 star athletes on the premise they are invincible. If for example Alabama is smoked by 60 points in a playoff game, that reduces them to the level of Tennessee on the recruiting trail. Invincible schools cannot afford dents in the armor.

That's why I'm saying the CFP acts against the interest of 100,000 seat behemoth football programs exposing them to bad losses. The fans struggle to remember who is ranked where because its changing every week.

(10-18-2015 01:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The CFP is supposed to be a post season vehicle that delivers overwhelming excitement for the national championship race that is predominated by P5 member schools.

From a financial perspective its delivered as promised huge increase in money to the coffers of FBS schools. Money in college football though can only go so far.

The P5 traditionally controlled general fan interest through a combination of bowls & polls. They are what distinguished who was a serious program vs. an afterthought. P5's could use their undefeated records and bowl tie-in to legitimize #1 rankings.

Before G5's at most would have only 1-2 schools in play for a major bowl. That is because you had to be ranked so high to be in the conversation. Now there are 10+ G5 schools as late as November that can be hopeful for a major bowl game, about the same amount as could be hopeful in the P5 albeit for 5 major bowl games. Then for the minor bowls, G5 programs have options and locations that aren't very far behind in quality. The days of G5 schools with 8 to 10 wins being shut out of a bowl completely are over.

The playoff race isn't one the average fan can predict by looking at the AP Poll as it was in the past. The committee shuffles up the rankings week by week. Due to this you can't predict the rankings and there is more limited interest in seeing the rankings since they won't have a bearing on the rankings for subsequent weeks.

For sure the P5 was able to maintain some advantages like a 15 to 10 voting ratio over the G5 and most of the prime timeslots. The G5's though have 100 million dollar long term TV deals themselves and plenty of coverage. Obtaining even a SBC invite has become exclusive enough that Coastal Carolina needed deep pockets and an amazing plan to get in.

The net effect of the new system is that interest is going back to the conference races instead of the national race since its almost impossible to make the playoff without winning your conference or a major bowl. A P5 could get an at-large major bowl but for a 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th ranked P5 school its a consolation prize when you are in the hunt for a playoff spot.

The playoff itself is strange because the seedings of 1 through 4 don't really mean anything. It comes down to how a school plays on that particular day. Anyone that doesn't show up will get beat badly. It takes so much talent/coaching/discipline to get into the Top 4 these days that anyone can kill anyone.

Schools that are putting up 50-60 points a game against weak competition and then turning around the next week and doing it against a conference leader mean you can't compare scores or matchups anymore for it to say something. The whole concept of football strength has been undermined.

In basketball its usually a cold day in hell before you see schools like Kentucky or Lousivlle get trounced. Certainly not by a score of 110-14 like it would be when Texas lost to TCU 50-7. Losses where the donors decide enough is enough for supporting the program.

I cant agree with this take. The P5 have for all intents and purposes completely blocked the G5 from the playoff by stacking the committee. The P5's CFP effectively relegated the G5 to a single big bowl, and allowed the P5 to monetize and pocket the full value of the P5 traditional bowls that used to be split among everyone as part of the BCS payout (Rose, Sugar, Orange). The only thing the P5 did that was a "gain" for the G5 was to guarantee the G5 would participate in a major access bowl every year---but they took away most any chance the G5 had to access the playoff or any other mid-tier bowls existing outside of the CFP. So basically, the champion of all but one G5 conference will be playing in Bobs Bowl vs the bottom qualifier from a P5 conference (if they are lucky) or some other random G5 (likely not even a G5 champion).

The G5 completely blew it by not siphoning off some CFP money to create a series of bowls that would serve as decent guaranteed post season destinations for each G5 champion. Instead, they rushed off and created a bunch of junk bowls to make sure that everyone who one 6 games could go one extra game. More low end junk bowls were not needed. There were plenty of them. What the G5 lacks is and is in dire need of is quality bowls. As a group, the G5 has access to ONE quality bowl. They need at least 5 slots (one each).

My idea was always to create 3 more good G5 bowls. One would pit the #2 G5 champ vs a P5 team #3-5 level section). The second would pit the #3 G5 champ against a P5 team (3-5th selection). The third would pit the two remaining G5 champs against one another. Then ever G5 champ has a decent place to go.

I said long ago that the P5 was an exclusive club. And the ONE thing exclusive clubs do is EXCLUDE. That's the nature of the beast.

(10-18-2015 07:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I said long ago that the P5 was an exclusive club. And the ONE thing exclusive clubs do is EXCLUDE. That's the nature of the beast.

^^^^THIS^^^^^

That said, the P5 split the money with the G5. The G5 could have used some of that money to create a few decent G5 bowls that would have had payouts high enough to attract decent #3-5 level picks from the P5 conferences. The G5 didn't do anything like that, so its not all on the P5. If you are not willing use the resources you have to improve your situation, you have to minimize the complaining.

(10-18-2015 05:34 PM)MJG Wrote:  So what was Coastal's amazing plan.
They needed a stadium expansion anyway but not as big.
Coastal claims the Sun Belt approached them .
They did step up their expansion and it was a great move for Coastal.

Big South to SBC is a no brainer especially after they couldn't get in the CAA or SOCON.

Money wise: Sun Belt > CAA and Southern.

(10-18-2015 06:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 01:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The CFP is supposed to be a post season vehicle that delivers overwhelming excitement for the national championship race that is predominated by P5 member schools.

From a financial perspective its delivered as promised huge increase in money to the coffers of FBS schools. Money in college football though can only go so far.

The P5 traditionally controlled general fan interest through a combination of bowls & polls. They are what distinguished who was a serious program vs. an afterthought. P5's could use their undefeated records and bowl tie-in to legitimize #1 rankings.

Before G5's at most would have only 1-2 schools in play for a major bowl. That is because you had to be ranked so high to be in the conversation. Now there are 10+ G5 schools as late as November that can be hopeful for a major bowl game, about the same amount as could be hopeful in the P5 albeit for 5 major bowl games. Then for the minor bowls, G5 programs have options and locations that aren't very far behind in quality. The days of G5 schools with 8 to 10 wins being shut out of a bowl completely are over.

The playoff race isn't one the average fan can predict by looking at the AP Poll as it was in the past. The committee shuffles up the rankings week by week. Due to this you can't predict the rankings and there is more limited interest in seeing the rankings since they won't have a bearing on the rankings for subsequent weeks.

For sure the P5 was able to maintain some advantages like a 15 to 10 voting ratio over the G5 and most of the prime timeslots. The G5's though have 100 million dollar long term TV deals themselves and plenty of coverage. Obtaining even a SBC invite has become exclusive enough that Coastal Carolina needed deep pockets and an amazing plan to get in.

The net effect of the new system is that interest is going back to the conference races instead of the national race since its almost impossible to make the playoff without winning your conference or a major bowl. A P5 could get an at-large major bowl but for a 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th ranked P5 school its a consolation prize when you are in the hunt for a playoff spot.

The playoff itself is strange because the seedings of 1 through 4 don't really mean anything. It comes down to how a school plays on that particular day. Anyone that doesn't show up will get beat badly. It takes so much talent/coaching/discipline to get into the Top 4 these days that anyone can kill anyone.

Schools that are putting up 50-60 points a game against weak competition and then turning around the next week and doing it against a conference leader mean you can't compare scores or matchups anymore for it to say something. The whole concept of football strength has been undermined.

In basketball its usually a cold day in hell before you see schools like Kentucky or Lousivlle get trounced. Certainly not by a score of 110-14 like it would be when Texas lost to TCU 50-7. Losses where the donors decide enough is enough for supporting the program.

I cant agree with this take. The P5 have for all intents and purposes completely blocked the G5 from the playoff by stacking the committee. The P5's CFP effectively relegated the G5 to a single big bowl, and allowed the P5 to monetize and pocket the full value of the P5 traditional bowls that used to be split among everyone as part of the BCS payout (Rose, Sugar, Orange). The only thing the P5 did that was a "gain" for the G5 was to guarantee the G5 would participate in a major access bowl every year---but they took away most any chance the G5 had to access the playoff or any other mid-tier bowls existing outside of the CFP. So basically, the champion of all but one G5 conference will be playing in Bobs Bowl vs the bottom qualifier from a P5 conference (if they are lucky) or some other random G5 (likely not even a G5 champion).

The G5 completely blew it by not siphoning off some CFP money to create a series of bowls that would serve as decent guaranteed post season destinations for each G5 champion. Instead, they rushed off and created a bunch of junk bowls to make sure that everyone who one 6 games could go one extra game. More low end junk bowls were not needed. There were plenty of them. What the G5 lacks is and is in dire need of is quality bowls. As a group, the G5 has access to ONE quality bowl. They need at least 5 slots (one each).

My idea was always to create 3 more good G5 bowls. One would pit the #2 G5 champ vs a P5 team #3-5 level section). The second would pit the #3 G5 champ against a P5 team (3-5th selection). The third would pit the two remaining G5 champs against one another. Then ever G5 champ has a decent place to go.

People would still watch an undefeated Boise State in the playoffs because Boise is known to knock off big guys. People would watch and root for Boise to win over their hated school's rival.

Need to go to computer ranking system to help the the playoff committee, it takes a lot of the human element and bias out of the equation. The committee should get a list from the computer of the top 8 teams each week and make their rankings from that list. IMHO. They really need to expand to 8 sooner than later. And have a guaranteed spot for a G5 as long as they are in the top 12 of the country.

(10-18-2015 09:59 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  Need to go to computer ranking system to help the the playoff committee, it takes a lot of the human element and bias out of the equation. The committee should get a list from the computer of the top 8 teams each week and make their rankings from that list. IMHO. They really need to expand to 8 sooner than later. And have a guaranteed spot for a G5 as long as they are in the top 12 of the country.

No it doesn't. The computer analysis is only as good as the programmer, who is a human. That leaves the human element in there, even if a machine is making the call. A human told it how to do that.

And computers are extremely stupid. They will do whatever you tell them to do, no matter how stupid - or disastrous - the task may be.

(10-18-2015 10:52 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 09:59 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  Need to go to computer ranking system to help the the playoff committee, it takes a lot of the human element and bias out of the equation. The committee should get a list from the computer of the top 8 teams each week and make their rankings from that list. IMHO. They really need to expand to 8 sooner than later. And have a guaranteed spot for a G5 as long as they are in the top 12 of the country.

No it doesn't. The computer analysis is only as good as the programmer, who is a human. That leaves the human element in there, even if a machine is making the call. A human told it how to do that.

And computers are extremely stupid. They will do whatever you tell them to do, no matter how stupid - or disastrous - the task may be.

Hence garbage in and garabage out.

One big point: The College Football Playoff was not designed to weaken to the Group of 5. It actually expanded access by now guaranteeing a bid that was not always there in the BCS era.

(10-19-2015 08:46 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  One big point: The College Football Playoff was not designed to weaken to the Group of 5. It actually expanded access by now guaranteeing a bid that was not always there in the BCS era.

Bingo!

I would say that this may strengthen the quite few G5's because now that actually have a guarantee to play in a Major Bowl to sell to the recruits.

I agree. Last year, the focus was on the first year of the CFP with little pub given to the G5s. This year, they are getting more press. While the AAC may not like being lumped in, most major publications now have weekly polls/segments/articles about the access bowl race...didn't see that last year.