(10-16-2015 01:22 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 01:01 PM)UHDC Wrote:  We only have 2 P5 wins since 2010? We have had 2 P5 wins in the last 10 months.
Not sure where you are pulling your numbers you entirely forgot about the Miss St series where we went 2-1, we have a losing record but not by much.

I'm pulling my numbers from cfbdatawarehouse.com, as I mentioned above. As it is historical data, I was not counting this year. But yes, you did beat Louisville. I also neglected to Count the bowl win over Pittsburgh. And I did skip Mississippi State (lost them as they are all out of conference mid season games, didn't look close enough). That't not the fault of where I'm pulling my numbers from, its from me not paying attention.

Houston is then 9-13 in the last 11 years (Pitt and Louisville 2015, getting back to 2005 = 11) v. "power" conferences. Thank you for the correction.

BUT... my point still stands. That is a good showing, but it isn't dominating. TCU, the last Big 12 addition, was a perennial top 10 team when they were invited. Houston is a good football program, but has only been a top 25 team once in the last generation (generally defined as 25 years). My point here is that Houston will not be invited based on their amazing on-field performance.

Hard to state this discussion without pissing off Houston fans. But my only two real points are that Houston doesn't dominate on the field, and doesn't dominate their market.

That and I've never understood the shocker. I just don't get it.


[edit] Pesik: not trying hard to be biased at all. Not really trying that hard at all. I never should have tried to pull stats without spending the time to go over them more closely. Spend maybe 3 minutes looking at 10 years. Should have just said Houston has been ranked 1 time in 25 years and left it at that.

I counted BYU as a P5 because everyone counts them as a P5 for scheduling purposes.[/edit]

That's correct, BYU is a P5

(10-16-2015 01:22 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 01:01 PM)UHDC Wrote:  We only have 2 P5 wins since 2010? We have had 2 P5 wins in the last 10 months.
Not sure where you are pulling your numbers you entirely forgot about the Miss St series where we went 2-1, we have a losing record but not by much.

I'm pulling my numbers from cfbdatawarehouse.com, as I mentioned above. As it is historical data, I was not counting this year. But yes, you did beat Louisville. I also neglected to Count the bowl win over Pittsburgh. And I did skip Mississippi State (lost them as they are all out of conference mid season games, didn't look close enough). That't not the fault of where I'm pulling my numbers from, its from me not paying attention.

Houston is then 9-13 in the last 11 years (Pitt and Louisville 2015, getting back to 2005 = 11) v. "power" conferences. Thank you for the correction.

BUT... my point still stands. That is a good showing, but it isn't dominating. TCU, the last Big 12 addition, was a perennial top 10 team when they were invited. Houston is a good football program, but has only been a top 25 team once in the last generation (generally defined as 25 years). My point here is that Houston will not be invited based on their amazing on-field performance.

Hard to state this discussion without pissing off Houston fans. But my only two real points are that Houston doesn't dominate on the field, and doesn't dominate their market.

That and I've never understood the shocker. I just don't get it.


[edit] Pesik: not trying hard to be biased at all. Not really trying that hard at all. I never should have tried to pull stats without spending the time to go over them more closely. Spend maybe 3 minutes looking at 10 years. Should have just said Houston has been ranked 1 time in 25 years and left it at that.

I counted BYU as a P5 because everyone counts them as a P5 for scheduling purposes.[/edit]

Your not making anyone mad. We are just making sure you have the facts correct. I don't think any Houston fan has said we have been dominating. We have lost to all of the bottom feeders in this conference in the last 3 years.

But nobody in this conference has dominated anything. UCF who had the best season is now 0-6. Now if any team in this conference goes on a run like TCU/Boise/Utah I would imagine they will get called up. It isn't easy to do.

(10-16-2015 01:27 PM)coltcougar Wrote:  What makes you think you're "pissing off" Houston fans.[sic] That would tend to mean that what you say, makes a real difference?[sic] I think not.

Nothing anyone says on an anonymous sports message board "makes a real difference." The reason I made my statement was because you guys keep talking about my posts. That would be an indication of engagement, not indifference. For example, when you took the time to post this response you are engaging. In this instance you did so in order to, counter intuitively, point out that you don't care.

Let me explain:

The general tone of responses to my observations from Houston fans was negative (not hostile, just negative).

Pissed off is a euphemism for angered, displeased, or annoyed.

Having reached the conclusion that many Houston fans had an annoyed reaction to my post, one can properly say the said post caused those posters to be pissed off.

(10-16-2015 09:14 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 08:46 AM)Juan Tibonya Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 07:25 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 06:55 PM)Mike the Knight Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 02:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I don't think ECU will be in Big 12 anytime soon, but I disagree with you that UCF gets into the Big 12 before ECU. Maybe neither get in, but I'm very confident UCF doesn't get in before ECU. I'll stand by that forever or until I'm proven wrong my friend! Cheers!

This is all conjecture and who knows what the hell is going on behind the scenes. I do find it funny you go out of your way to say UCF has no chance and that ECU would go first. Kind of like how the Big East took you before they took UCF...oh, wait.

In all seriousness, would love to see the American continue to outperform the other G5 conferences and eventually earn a guaranteed spot in the playoffs when things eventually expand...

I have no special insider info. I go off my friends and family members employed at Big 12 schools. My parents live in Mustang, OK. (a few miles north of Norman) and I go to Sooner events with them regularly. I know OU has a ton of influence on who gets in. Barry Trammel and other Oklahoman journalists always have Houston as part of the expansion conversation. BYU USED TO BE part of the conversation. Not for a couple of years has there been talk of BYU. The LDS church stuff was brought up...it wasn't positive sad to say. ECU recently has gotten talked about for the first time I ever remember. I call tell you UCF is not a candidate for the Big 12 based on the local medias, fans, alumnus etc. of 9 of the 10 schools. I'll admit West Virginia could maybe have a nominal interest in a Florida add, but I can also say that WV has brought up ECU as a Big 12 addition. UCF is not as recognized by t-shirt fans, journalists, boosters, and employees of Big 12 schools as UCF fans on here think. I'll give you credit for beating Baylor and getting them to know you at least exist. (Some big 12 fans didn't know you at all until then) MHO based on what I hear and read in Big 12 country. I could be wrong and its a secret that I'm not in on. I can tell you the second TCU was brought up, they got in, the second WV was brought up in the media, they were in. Louisville and Sen Mitch McConnell begged for an invite, and Big 12 people had no interest. Big 12 folks are pretty easy to read when it comes to this. They are very blunt about who they want. Cheers!

That is a really long way of saying you don't have a clue and base your statements on nothing except conjecture.

I'll say it in a short way: UCF will not be in a P5 ever. Cincinnati and Houston probably will be in a P5 by next realignment. Cheers!

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder, but If you are right then ECU will be right there behind UCF.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I'm only interested in the minutia as support for the whole. The major premise is that Houston does not add football power of market share to a "P5" league. Unless there is an existential need to expand, it doesn't make financial sense to add Houston.

That is fair but I think it depends on what P5 your talking about. Not that I think any are a sure bet by the way. Yes, our geographical location is a hindrance to some concerning the B12 and not so much to others or to other P5 for that matter. In fact its a plus.

I can accept that we don't start day one as a UT, Oklahoma , or others of that ilk but we do bring value and the opportunity for growth.

Basically there isn't a G5 school that comes in at that level so that argument is invalid.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  On to minutia!

The "blog" that I cited as my source is the New York Times, it was citing a survey that had 40,000 respondents. Larger declarations are made from much smaller sample sizes. It is not Gospel and certainly some extrapolations could be wrong (your Rice example is spot on), but the overall picture of people being fans of U Houston remains. It seems doubtful that the results of that survey are inverted and Houston has the most fans as opposed to the least.

By no means am I advocating that we are the top of the heap but any blog that spins facts that say we are below the schools I listed is flawed from the start not to mention that that article err blog is 4 years old.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  It is also worth noting that I said 2 P5 wins THIS decade (2010). Not in the last decade (2005). Ergo, since 2010 you have posted wins over UCLA and Penn State.

Incorrect again but here are the facts. Wins over UCLA, Penn State, and.... Pittsburgh and Louisville.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I chose that period of time simply because that is one data set on cfbdatawarehouse. Going back to 2005 add 2 wins over Okie State and a Texas Tech win. I show loses to BYU (2), Vandy, T Tech, UCLA, Okie State, TCU, Oregon (2), Bama, S. Carolina, Miami, and Kansas.

Well BYU isn't P5 regardless so you can discount those 2 loses but as for the facts again here they are, and TCU was in the MWC when we played them so strike that as well.

2005: Oregon L, Mississippi State W, Kansas L
2006: Ok state W, Miami L, South Carolina L
2007: Oregon L, Alabama L
2008: Ok State L
2009: Ok State W, Texas Tech W, Mississippi St W
2010: UCLA L, Mississippi St L, Texas Tech L
2011: UCLA W, Penn State W
2012: UCLA L
2013: Didn't count since they are all AAC and people discount this year as being P5 worthy.... You can through in Vandy L that should be counted.
2014: Pitt W
2015: Louisville W

9-12 by my count.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  So 5-13 against P5. 5-13 is not a statement that you belong in the club. [edit: neither is 9-13... my whole point was that TCU got invited when they were dominating. Houston has not been dominating.../edit]

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  Houston has had a MUCH better run against the P5 than Tulsa has. Houston has a larger market base than Tulsa. Houston beat Tulsa this year and would have destroyed us the last two years. No qualms about any of those statements. Houston will go to a "power" league before Tulsa will, and yes, I want the conference to hold together because it is better for most schools...including Tulsa.

As long as we are on the outside looking in it's where I'd like to be as well.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I don't think we are disagreeing on any of the major points. I may have stated it more bluntly than you prefer.

I agree you just have your facts incorrect and put too much faith in a flawed blog. That is all.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  Also worth noting that you raise valid points about the benefits of being in the club. Many of the "big boys" are big just because of where they play. Iowa State would still have a great fan base simply because it is a large state school in a 2 FBS state (full disclosure: I'm an Iowa kid originally). But your overall point is well taken.

Thanks

(10-15-2015 01:41 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 01:39 PM)UHDC Wrote:  Let the firestorm on why Houston is not a candidate because Texas already has 4 schools start in 3..2..1...

I feel pretty confident in our future. There are just a ton of signs there. Doesn't mean it will happen. Let's just do what we can control, beat everyone else in the AAC and win a big bowl.

Go Coogs!

Same reason ECU couldn't get in the ACC with 4 in state school already in it!

Three years ago I would have laughed at that statement... the only reason ECU didn't get in was there were already 4 NC schools in the ACC. Three years ago it would have been no ECU because their academics aren't close to ACC standards.

Then the ACC took Louisville, which totally exposed they could give a rat's butt about academics. It's all about the money, just like everyone else but the Big 10.

Was U of H kicked out their Hotel in New Orleans?

(10-16-2015 02:01 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I'm only interested in the minutia as support for the whole. The major premise is that Houston does not add football power of market share to a "P5" league. Unless there is an existential need to expand, it doesn't make financial sense to add Houston.

That is fair but I think it depends on what P5 your talking about. Not that I think any are a sure bet by the way. Yes, our geographical location is a hindrance to some concerning the B12 and not so much to others or to other P5 for that matter. In fact its a plus.

I can accept that we don't start day one as a UT, Oklahoma , or others of that ilk but we do bring value and the opportunity for growth.

Basically there isn't a G5 school that comes in at that level so that argument is invalid.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  On to minutia!

The "blog" that I cited as my source is the New York Times, it was citing a survey that had 40,000 respondents. Larger declarations are made from much smaller sample sizes. It is not Gospel and certainly some extrapolations could be wrong (your Rice example is spot on), but the overall picture of people being fans of U Houston remains. It seems doubtful that the results of that survey are inverted and Houston has the most fans as opposed to the least.

By no means am I advocating that we are the top of the heap but any blog that spins facts that say we are below the schools I listed is flawed from the start not to mention that that article err blog is 4 years old.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  It is also worth noting that I said 2 P5 wins THIS decade (2010). Not in the last decade (2005). Ergo, since 2010 you have posted wins over UCLA and Penn State.

Incorrect again but here are the facts. Wins over UCLA, Penn State, and.... Pittsburgh and Louisville.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I chose that period of time simply because that is one data set on cfbdatawarehouse. Going back to 2005 add 2 wins over Okie State and a Texas Tech win. I show loses to BYU (2), Vandy, T Tech, UCLA, Okie State, TCU, Oregon (2), Bama, S. Carolina, Miami, and Kansas.

Well BYU isn't P5 regardless so you can discount those 2 loses but as for the facts again here they are, and TCU was in the MWC when we played them so strike that as well.

2005: Oregon L, Mississippi State W, Kansas L
2006: Ok state W, Miami L, South Carolina L
2007: Oregon L, Alabama L
2008: Ok State L
2009: Ok State W, Texas Tech W, Mississippi St W
2010: UCLA L, Mississippi St L, Texas Tech L
2011: UCLA W, Penn State W
2012: UCLA L
2013: Didn't count since they are all AAC and people discount this year as being P5 worthy.... You can through in Vandy L that should be counted.
2014: Pitt W
2015: Louisville W

9-12 by my count.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  So 5-13 against P5. 5-13 is not a statement that you belong in the club. [edit: neither is 9-13... my whole point was that TCU got invited when they were dominating. Houston has not been dominating.../edit]

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  Houston has had a MUCH better run against the P5 than Tulsa has. Houston has a larger market base than Tulsa. Houston beat Tulsa this year and would have destroyed us the last two years. No qualms about any of those statements. Houston will go to a "power" league before Tulsa will, and yes, I want the conference to hold together because it is better for most schools...including Tulsa.

As long as we are on the outside looking in it's where I'd like to be as well.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I don't think we are disagreeing on any of the major points. I may have stated it more bluntly than you prefer.

I agree you just have your facts incorrect and put too much faith in a flawed blog. That is all.

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  Also worth noting that you raise valid points about the benefits of being in the club. Many of the "big boys" are big just because of where they play. Iowa State would still have a great fan base simply because it is a large state school in a 2 FBS state (full disclosure: I'm an Iowa kid originally). But your overall point is well taken.

Thanks

(10-16-2015 12:42 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  my whole point was that TCU got invited when they were dominating. Houston has not been dominating

As for TCU Lets stick with the decade theme. They joined the B12 in 2012 so from 2001-2011 lets look at that murders row they played and how many were "P5".... Given the time frame I am including Big East games as "P5"

Air Force W W L W W W W (6-1)
Arizona W (1-0)
Army W W W W W W (6-0)
Baylor W W W L (3-1)
Boise State L W L W (2-2)
BYU W L L W W W W (5-2)
Cincinnati L W L (1-2)
Clemson W (1-0)
Colorado State W W W W W W W W (8-0)
East Carolina L L (0-2)
Houston W W W W W (5-0)
Iowa State W (1-0)
Louisiana Monroe W (1-0)
Louisiana Tech W (1-0)
Louisville W W W L (3-1)
Memphis W (1-0)
Navy W (1-0)
Nebraska L (0-1)
New Mexico W W W W W W W (7-0)
North Texas W W (2-0)
Northern Illinois W (1-0)
Northwestern W W (2-0)
Northwestern St L (0-1)
Oklahoma W L (1-1)
Oregon State W (1-0)
Portland State W (1-0)
San Diego State W W W W W W W (7-0)
SMU W W W W L W W W W L (8-2)
Southern Miss W W L W (3-1)
Stanford W W (2-0)
Stephen F Austin W (1-0)
Texas L (0-1)
Texas A&M L (0-1)
Texas State W (1-0)
Texas Tech L W (1-1)
Tennessee Tech W (0-1)
Tulane L W W L (2-2)
UAB L W L (1-2)
UC Davis W (1-0)
UNLV W W W W W W W (7-0)
USF W L (1-1)
Utah W L L L W W (3-3)
Vanderbilt W (1-0)
Virginia W (1-0)
Wisconsin W (1-0)
Wyoming W W L W W W W (6-1)

So by my count 21-10 versus P5 a very good record I agree but their overall record of 109-29 is inflated by the scrubs in and out of the MWC/CUSA.

(10-16-2015 02:35 PM)ChapelHillTiger Wrote:  Was U of H kicked out their Hotel in New Orleans?

I have no clue where did that come from?

I agree, their records were padded with some scrubs. But wouldnt a Big12 school say the same thing about Houston's record? Rice. UTEP. Southern Miss. UAB. Marshall. Memphis (good now in football, but not in CUSA days). SMU (again, making a run of it now, but miserable in CUSA). Tulsa (I think we were good, but not exactly a big name). From 2005 on CUSA wasn't murders row. [I enjoyed that conference and respect the schools mentioned above. Well, not Rice. But you get the point...)

TCU had Utah, BYU, Air Force, and Boise (only a couple seasons) in their conference. Colorado State made some noise a few years too. Plus a good OOC schedule.

The MWC conference in 2011 was at least on par with the AAC today (probably tougher at the top, weaker at the bottom). So I get your point, but a counter point could be made. Either way, the polls reflect the perception that TCU had continued success for a sustained period of time, culminating in back to back BCS bowls and a P5 invite.

So long as winning doesn't cause you to leave the conference and Tulsa isn't contending for a west division championship... I'm all for Houston continuing to win this year. So Go Cougs (if the forgoing assessments are accurate otherwise I can't wish you great success .

(10-16-2015 03:21 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  I agree, their records were padded with some scrubs. But wouldnt a Big12 school say the same thing about Houston's record? Rice. UTEP. Southern Miss. UAB. Marshall. Memphis (good now in football, but not in CUSA days). SMU (again, making a run of it now, but miserable in CUSA). Tulsa (I think we were good, but not exactly a big name). From 2005 on CUSA wasn't murders row. [I enjoyed that conference and respect the schools mentioned above. Well, not Rice. But you get the point...)

I agree but I don't think you're seeing anyone be that UH or non-UH saying we are TCU.

(10-16-2015 03:21 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  TCU had Utah, BYU, Air Force, and Boise (only a couple seasons) in their conference. Colorado State made some noise a few years too. Plus a good OOC schedule.

Utah was good but not P5 officially I grant you that. BYU has been hit or miss but to be honest that's just my impression but ill look up the stats. Boise yes but they were 2-2 against them. Their OOC slate picked up their last two years in the MWC the remaining 8 were terrible to average.

(10-16-2015 03:21 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  The MWC conference in 2011 was at least on par with the AAC today (probably tougher at the top, weaker at the bottom). So I get your point, but a counter point could be made. Either way, the polls reflect the perception that TCU had continued success for a sustained period of time, culminating in back to back BCS bowls and a P5 invite.

Oh I agree but you're making the argument (or were at least) that TCU was a beast for an extended period of time. I completely agree the last 2 maybe 3 years were awesome but you can only play the schools that will schedule you (our problem) and by that argument any team can be worthy if said team put together a similar 2-3 year run.

(10-16-2015 03:21 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  So long as winning doesn't cause you to leave the conference and Tulsa isn't contending for a west division championship... I'm all for Houston continuing to win this year. So Go Cougs (if the forgoing assessments are accurate otherwise I can't wish you great success .

Yes, I wish every team in the AAC wins every game they don't play us. Good luck yourself.

(10-16-2015 12:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  FYI, if not said before (not reading whole thread), UH BOR pres said P5 in 2-3 years, NOT Big 12 specifically.

It's been pointed out, TripleA... For selfish reasons here hope is the PAC

(10-16-2015 01:53 PM)Juan Tibonya Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 09:14 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 08:46 AM)Juan Tibonya Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 07:25 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 06:55 PM)Mike the Knight Wrote:  This is all conjecture and who knows what the hell is going on behind the scenes. I do find it funny you go out of your way to say UCF has no chance and that ECU would go first. Kind of like how the Big East took you before they took UCF...oh, wait.

In all seriousness, would love to see the American continue to outperform the other G5 conferences and eventually earn a guaranteed spot in the playoffs when things eventually expand...

I have no special insider info. I go off my friends and family members employed at Big 12 schools. My parents live in Mustang, OK. (a few miles north of Norman) and I go to Sooner events with them regularly. I know OU has a ton of influence on who gets in. Barry Trammel and other Oklahoman journalists always have Houston as part of the expansion conversation. BYU USED TO BE part of the conversation. Not for a couple of years has there been talk of BYU. The LDS church stuff was brought up...it wasn't positive sad to say. ECU recently has gotten talked about for the first time I ever remember. I call tell you UCF is not a candidate for the Big 12 based on the local medias, fans, alumnus etc. of 9 of the 10 schools. I'll admit West Virginia could maybe have a nominal interest in a Florida add, but I can also say that WV has brought up ECU as a Big 12 addition. UCF is not as recognized by t-shirt fans, journalists, boosters, and employees of Big 12 schools as UCF fans on here think. I'll give you credit for beating Baylor and getting them to know you at least exist. (Some big 12 fans didn't know you at all until then) MHO based on what I hear and read in Big 12 country. I could be wrong and its a secret that I'm not in on. I can tell you the second TCU was brought up, they got in, the second WV was brought up in the media, they were in. Louisville and Sen Mitch McConnell begged for an invite, and Big 12 people had no interest. Big 12 folks are pretty easy to read when it comes to this. They are very blunt about who they want. Cheers!

That is a really long way of saying you don't have a clue and base your statements on nothing except conjecture.

I'll say it in a short way: UCF will not be in a P5 ever. Cincinnati and Houston probably will be in a P5 by next realignment. Cheers!

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder, but If you are right then ECU will be right there behind UCF.

We will see. This will be evidence of what you and I are debating. UCF won't be in a P5 conference ever. But lets make it tangible. 10 years from now UCF will not be in a power conference whether that's P4, P5, P6. I do predict UCF will beat 1 team this year...that's right, UCF will not finish winless. Cheers!