There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

(10-20-2015 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

(10-20-2015 12:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  big issue like Coach K brought up- you do what you are saying- the NCAA tourney would be right smack dab in the middle of exams. Some help for the students....

At the U of MN, spring semester finals are May 9-14.

The NCAA final four/championship would be the first week of May. And that's only four teams.

(10-20-2015 05:32 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  big issue like Coach K brought up- you do what you are saying- the NCAA tourney would be right smack dab in the middle of exams. Some help for the students....

At the U of MN, spring semester finals are May 9-14.

The NCAA final four/championship would be the first week of May. And that's only four teams.

Yeah, and as we proved to you- that's late. A lot are in the last 2 weeks of April- when the 1st 4 rounds are....

(10-20-2015 08:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:32 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  big issue like Coach K brought up- you do what you are saying- the NCAA tourney would be right smack dab in the middle of exams. Some help for the students....

At the U of MN, spring semester finals are May 9-14.

The NCAA final four/championship would be the first week of May. And that's only four teams.

Yeah, and as we proved to you- that's late. A lot are in the last 2 weeks of April- when the 1st 4 rounds are....

The previous discussion was about schools ending their spring term in June. You only proved that schools on the semester system end their spring term in May, which is right in line with U of MN.

It wouldn't surprise me that most semester system schools have finals the second week in May 2016.


Just checked Texas, for example, and their Spring 2016 finals are May 11-17. So that's enough evidence to suggest that a larger sample size study is warranted before any conclusion can be made.

(10-21-2015 09:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 08:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:32 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  big issue like Coach K brought up- you do what you are saying- the NCAA tourney would be right smack dab in the middle of exams. Some help for the students....

At the U of MN, spring semester finals are May 9-14.

The NCAA final four/championship would be the first week of May. And that's only four teams.

Yeah, and as we proved to you- that's late. A lot are in the last 2 weeks of April- when the 1st 4 rounds are....

The previous discussion was about schools ending their spring term in June. You only proved that schools on the semester system end their spring term in May, which is right in line with U of MN.

So in fact, it wouldn't surprise me that most semester system schools have finals the second week in May 2016.

University of Florida- April 23 and 25-29. Alabama May 2-6. Georgia May 4-10. UNC April 29-May 6. So, no. It is a HUGE issue.

There will be significant pushback on this.

(10-20-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

"academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

(10-21-2015 09:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 09:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 08:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:32 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  big issue like Coach K brought up- you do what you are saying- the NCAA tourney would be right smack dab in the middle of exams. Some help for the students....

At the U of MN, spring semester finals are May 9-14.

The NCAA final four/championship would be the first week of May. And that's only four teams.

Yeah, and as we proved to you- that's late. A lot are in the last 2 weeks of April- when the 1st 4 rounds are....

The previous discussion was about schools ending their spring term in June. You only proved that schools on the semester system end their spring term in May, which is right in line with U of MN.

So in fact, it wouldn't surprise me that most semester system schools have finals the second week in May 2016.

University of Florida- April 23 and 25-29. Alabama May 2-6. Georgia May 4-10. UNC April 29-May 6. So, no. It is a HUGE issue.

There will be significant pushback on this.

Firstly, I showed that U of MN and U of TX would be completely unaffected. You've showed that U of FL, U of AL and UNC might be affected.

The first (main) Th - Sun weekend of the 2016 tournament would be April 21-24.


It would warrant a larger sample size, to see how many schools might be affected and how many would not be affected.

At this point, without more data, I disagree that it may be a significant issue.

And the 2nd weekend would be April 28-May 1. Really great for student welfare that we have huge games during exams- or even frankly weekend right before the exams.

All that we have is some football people want the attention to be all on football in November and not on basketball. That's the bottom line. And it's garbage.

(10-21-2015 10:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

"academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

(10-21-2015 12:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And the 2nd weekend would be April 28-May 1. Really great for student welfare that we have huge games during exams- or even frankly weekend right before the exams.

All that we have is some football people want the attention to be all on football in November and not on basketball. That's the bottom line. And it's garbage.

So instead, let's make the bball players play 10+ games before and during Fall finals?

(10-21-2015 12:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 10:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

"academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

(10-21-2015 12:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And the 2nd weekend would be April 28-May 1. Really great for student welfare that we have huge games during exams- or even frankly weekend right before the exams.

All that we have is some football people want the attention to be all on football in November and not on basketball. That's the bottom line. And it's garbage.

So instead, let's make the bball players play 10+ games before and during Fall finals?

teams are able to control their schedule before the fall finals. Also, a lot of the games right immediately before the finals are a lot of the cupcake games.

It's not going to change. TV won't allow it to change, and frankly a lot of the basketball folks won't either.

(10-21-2015 12:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 10:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:10 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  There's another reason this proposal will never see the light. The NFL draft. It will overshadow the regionals, and if moved back a week, the Final Four. But then again, the draft already overshadows the NBA/NHL playoffs.

It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

"academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

(10-21-2015 12:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And the 2nd weekend would be April 28-May 1. Really great for student welfare that we have huge games during exams- or even frankly weekend right before the exams.

All that we have is some football people want the attention to be all on football in November and not on basketball. That's the bottom line. And it's garbage.

So instead, let's make the bball players play 10+ games before and during Fall finals?

teams are able to control their schedule before the fall finals. Also, a lot of the games right immediately before the finals are a lot of the cupcake games.

It's not going to change. TV won't allow it to change, and frankly a lot of the basketball folks won't either.

Maybe it won't change.

But there certainly isn't a very good argument against it changing being that it would interfere with Spring finals.

(10-21-2015 01:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 10:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It would be sad indeed if basketball student-athlete welfare, particularly academic welfare, takes a back seat to ... TV schedules of completely unrelated sports.

"academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

I don't think any players would have Saturday finals due to the fact that would be a Saturday class- and there are Saturday's with games.

Another problem you have is the schools that would be impacted the most by the Spring finals problems are the ones that have the most stroke. So if schools like Kentucky and Duke are against it- how far do you think it flies? Not far at all.

(10-21-2015 01:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 10:40 AM)Wedge Wrote:  "academic welfare"

As it is now, the NCAA tournament ends the first weekend of April, and colleges on the semester system have final exams in late April or early May.

Every team in men's basketball except the Final Four teams are finished with their season by the last weekend in March, which leaves all of April open for basketball players to be on campus, study for finals, and complete projects and term papers due at the end of the semester.

But you believe that basketball players will do better in school if the NCAA tournament is played during their final exam period.

Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

I don't think any players would have Saturday finals due to the fact that would be a Saturday class- and there are Saturday's with games.

Another problem you have is the schools that would be impacted the most by the Spring finals problems are the ones that have the most stroke. So if schools like Kentucky and Duke are against it- how far do you think it flies? Not far at all.

At the U of MN, the day and time of finals are not the same as the class time. It's because they give you more time for a final than the normal class time.

Clearly you have a point ... it was Coach K who brought it up in the first place. It would then be a matter of if the blue bloods could be overridden by either the NCAA or the rest of the member body, because it/they perceived the collective benefits to outweigh the risks for the few.

(10-21-2015 01:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Of course I don't.


The U of MN has 9 scheduled games and a trip to Puerto Rico scheduled between Nov 1st and Dec 12th.

Fall semester finals are scheduled from Dec 12th - Dec 18th.


Why isn't Coach K bringing that up?

With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

I don't think any players would have Saturday finals due to the fact that would be a Saturday class- and there are Saturday's with games.

Another problem you have is the schools that would be impacted the most by the Spring finals problems are the ones that have the most stroke. So if schools like Kentucky and Duke are against it- how far do you think it flies? Not far at all.

At the U of MN, the day and time of finals are not the same as the class time. It's because they give you more time for a final than the normal class time.

Clearly you have a point ... it was Coach K who brought it up in the first place. It would then be a matter of if the blue bloods could be overridden by either the NCAA or the rest of the member body, because it/they perceived the collective benefits to outweigh the risks for the few.

I'd think at most schools- if you take for instance a MWF class- your final will be on one of those days. If you take a TR class, your final would be on one of those days. Only way you would have a Saturday final- would be if you have a Saturday class.

The thing is, I think outside the P5, there is little appetite for this change. I don't think the Big East for example would be for it by any stretch of the imagination.

(10-21-2015 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 12:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  With everything except for Puerto Rico at home except for 1 game in Sioux Falls on the 12th(which is a Saturday- so no finals for players that day). Lot different than traveling possibly thousand plus miles right before the finals.

Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

I don't think any players would have Saturday finals due to the fact that would be a Saturday class- and there are Saturday's with games.

Another problem you have is the schools that would be impacted the most by the Spring finals problems are the ones that have the most stroke. So if schools like Kentucky and Duke are against it- how far do you think it flies? Not far at all.

At the U of MN, the day and time of finals are not the same as the class time. It's because they give you more time for a final than the normal class time.

Clearly you have a point ... it was Coach K who brought it up in the first place. It would then be a matter of if the blue bloods could be overridden by either the NCAA or the rest of the member body, because it/they perceived the collective benefits to outweigh the risks for the few.

I'd think at most schools- if you take for instance a MWF class- your final will be on one of those days. If you take a TR class, your final would be on one of those days. Only way you would have a Saturday final- would be if you have a Saturday class.

The thing is, I think outside the P5, there is little appetite for this change. I don't think the Big East for example would be for it by any stretch of the imagination.

This is the schedule, there are no Sat classes: http://onestop.umn.edu/calendars/final_exams/

It's a moot point, because if a player has a final on a game day, he can surely get approval to take the final before the scheduled final day, proctored by the athletic dept.


Why wouldn't the Big East want to move their regular season outside the shadow of college football?

(10-21-2015 01:39 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 01:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sorry, I screwed up. Looking at last year's calendar. This year it's Dec 17-23, with Sunday off. So they could have finals on Sat. Of course, athletes can take them proctored, any time.

Throw in another game on Dec 16th. Then they play against on Dec 23rd.

They're not going to take that entire time off. That's for sure. And even if they were, that's no time beforehand to study.



Home games for MN, sure. But what about for smaller schools traveling for payday games?


I argue that every DI team playing games during fall finals is worse than just (SOME) of the NCAA tourney teams playing games during spring finals.

I don't think any players would have Saturday finals due to the fact that would be a Saturday class- and there are Saturday's with games.

Another problem you have is the schools that would be impacted the most by the Spring finals problems are the ones that have the most stroke. So if schools like Kentucky and Duke are against it- how far do you think it flies? Not far at all.

At the U of MN, the day and time of finals are not the same as the class time. It's because they give you more time for a final than the normal class time.

Clearly you have a point ... it was Coach K who brought it up in the first place. It would then be a matter of if the blue bloods could be overridden by either the NCAA or the rest of the member body, because it/they perceived the collective benefits to outweigh the risks for the few.

I'd think at most schools- if you take for instance a MWF class- your final will be on one of those days. If you take a TR class, your final would be on one of those days. Only way you would have a Saturday final- would be if you have a Saturday class.

The thing is, I think outside the P5, there is little appetite for this change. I don't think the Big East for example would be for it by any stretch of the imagination.

This is the schedule, there are no Sat classes: http://onestop.umn.edu/calendars/final_exams/

It's a moot point, because if a player has a final on a game day, he can surely get approval to take the final before the scheduled final day, proctored by the athletic dept.


Why wouldn't the Big East want to move their regular season outside the shadow of college football?

It is outside the shadow of college football- Jan-Mar.

Another problem is conference tournaments. Think Big East could have MSG in mid April(with hockey playoffs started and some years basketball as well)? Big Ten with Chicago or Indianapolis? No chance.