(10-13-2015 11:22 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah but Tulane fans on here like to point out that they have a rich school with a huge endowment that can put $ into their athletics department. Surely that same reasoning can apply here too right? Cheers!

You really got a case of the Tulane sore ass. You are the biggest vile creature on this board. Believe me ECU will be doing things to handle the the costs. We are proactive instead of reactive.

Various parts of an endowment are frequently restricted to specific purpose. The funds can't be spent any way someone desires. However, a large endowment generally means an outstanding academic institution, like Tulane.

Tulane is the only AAU member in the AAC. Some other AAC schools may be in the AAU someday. Some will never be.

(10-13-2015 02:16 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Some other AAC schools may be in the AAU someday. Some will never be.

Curious, who have the chance? and who has no chance? I'm a little ignorant on the AAU.

(10-13-2015 02:00 PM)pablowow Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:22 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah but Tulane fans on here like to point out that they have a rich school with a huge endowment that can put $ into their athletics department. Surely that same reasoning can apply here too right? Cheers!

You really got a case of the Tulane sore ass. You are the biggest vile creature on this board. Believe me ECU will be doing things to handle the the costs. We are proactive instead of reactive.

I'm the "biggest vile creature"--I like that! Cheers!

(10-13-2015 02:17 PM)MercerCo_BearCat Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:16 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Some other AAC schools may be in the AAU someday. Some will never be.

Curious, who have the chance? and who has no chance? I'm a little ignorant on the AAU.

There are quite a few criteria but most of them are coded ways to say "conducts large amount of research."

Per 2013 NSF research expenditure rankings (not quite the same order as candidacy likelihood for the AAU, but close), AAC schools are ranked as follows (numbers are national ranks):

South Florida - 43
Cincy - 46
UConn - 86
Temple - 94
Tulane - 117
Houston - 133
UCF - 135
Memphis - 203
ECU - 213
SMU - 254
Tulsa - 257
Navy - 316

Based on this, South Florida and Cincy have the best opportunities to be accepted into the AAU in the short-term. Practically everyone from UCF on up has a shot if the AAU wants to become more inclusive than they are now. Schools from Memphis on down would need to significantly increase research activity to have a shot. Navy will never be an AAU member (research is simply not its primary mission), SMU and Tulsa likely also will never be AAU members as both place significant emphasis on undergraduate and professional education rather than research.

(10-13-2015 02:00 PM)pablowow Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:22 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah but Tulane fans on here like to point out that they have a rich school with a huge endowment that can put $ into their athletics department. Surely that same reasoning can apply here too right? Cheers!

You really got a case of the Tulane sore ass. You are the biggest vile creature on this board. Believe me ECU will be doing things to handle the the costs. We are proactive instead of reactive.

Not sure what spurred the "vile" comment.

That's not Billybobby's nature at all. He has opinions just like the rest of us

(10-13-2015 12:51 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:20 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  By the way, Tulane's endowment can easily handle the budget shortfall. They should be applauded for being proactive to stem the shortfall.

Pony to pony.....always apppreciate your posts. You probably know this, but I would point out that Endowment funds by their very nature cannot normally be spent on anything. They can only spend the interest or income earned by the funds.

Well, actually there are three classes of endowment funds:

General Funds: Are use for any general need or short fall.
Designated Funds: These funds can only be spent on what they were designated for.
Restricted Funds: By their very nature cannot normally be spent on anything. Requires the trustees and upper manage consensus vote to be used.

Hence, you need to get this from Tulane finanial statement.

Because, why not?

(10-13-2015 09:43 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  There are quite a few criteria but most of them are coded ways to say "conducts large amount of research."

Per 2013 NSF research expenditure rankings (not quite the same order as candidacy likelihood for the AAU, but close), AAC schools are ranked as follows (numbers are national ranks):

South Florida - 43
Cincy - 46
UConn - 86
Temple - 94
Tulane - 117
Houston - 133
UCF - 135
Memphis - 203
ECU - 213
SMU - 254
Tulsa - 257
Navy - 316

Based on this, South Florida and Cincy have the best opportunities to be accepted into the AAU in the short-term. Practically everyone from UCF on up has a shot if the AAU wants to become more inclusive than they are now. Schools from Memphis on down would need to significantly increase research activity to have a shot. Navy will never be an AAU member (research is simply not its primary mission), SMU and Tulsa likely also will never be AAU members as both place significant emphasis on undergraduate and professional education rather than research.

AAU also looks at this on a per capita (student) basis. Take out USDA grants (if you're numbers are just NSF then they don't include USDA).
Also, the faculty credentials in various associations, etc. are a major factor.

What's tuition at Tulane? $50K or so? How do you run a deficit with an outrageous tuition like that. It's honestly beyond my comprehension how people can afford to go to school there.

(10-14-2015 12:07 AM)DrBox Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 09:43 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  There are quite a few criteria but most of them are coded ways to say "conducts large amount of research."

Per 2013 NSF research expenditure rankings (not quite the same order as candidacy likelihood for the AAU, but close), AAC schools are ranked as follows (numbers are national ranks):

South Florida - 43
Cincy - 46
UConn - 86
Temple - 94
Tulane - 117
Houston - 133
UCF - 135
Memphis - 203
ECU - 213
SMU - 254
Tulsa - 257
Navy - 316

Based on this, South Florida and Cincy have the best opportunities to be accepted into the AAU in the short-term. Practically everyone from UCF on up has a shot if the AAU wants to become more inclusive than they are now. Schools from Memphis on down would need to significantly increase research activity to have a shot. Navy will never be an AAU member (research is simply not its primary mission), SMU and Tulsa likely also will never be AAU members as both place significant emphasis on undergraduate and professional education rather than research.

AAU also looks at this on a per capita (student) basis. Take out USDA grants (if you're numbers are just NSF then they don't include USDA).
Also, the faculty credentials in various associations, etc. are a major factor.

Very true, and these numbers are just NSF. USDA grants do come into the picture in stage 2, but as Nebraska found out, they really don't matter much.

Faculty citations and membership in the national academies are quite important, but they are also correlated with the info posted above, since in general, more research $$$ = more research.

It's a national trend to bring in a CEO/business type as president to provide fiscal management, rather than an accomplished PhD education administrator for academic cred. Especially with the public schools which are receiving less support from squeezed state budgets; rising costs of course affect all schools.

(10-13-2015 11:29 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:22 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah but Tulane fans on here like to point out that they have a rich school with a huge endowment that can put $ into their athletics department. Surely that same reasoning can apply here too right? Cheers!

Whomever says that doesn't understand how the endowment works. You can't just take out $50mm whenever you please both because we have a contractual obligation to the hedge fund managers and many investments are long term.

What I think many have said is that we have some rich donors/graduates that can fund athletics.

As far as college cost centers, admin costs have exploded and made universities bloated. I argue the cheap debt is a big reason why.

Most of the private schools are doing this...too many professors coasting on their tenure and not helping the bottom line. Smart of Tulane to get ahead of this.

(10-13-2015 01:23 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 01:01 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:14 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU laid off quite a few staff last year. We hired Bain to help us prepare with the looming debt crisis. Their study found that we had become unnecessarily bloated and in fact had numerous occasions of duplicate people doing the same job.

The school's looming debt crisis?

Nationwide student loan crisis

Ahhhh. How does that situation end? As long as students can't file bankruptcy, they have to pay. The banks will still loan money.

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  What's tuition at Tulane? $50K or so? How do you run a deficit with an outrageous tuition like that. It's honestly beyond my comprehension how people can afford to go to school there.

They are generous with financial aid. Ever hear the saying "Nobody pays retail?" Applies here.

I did not qualify for need-based aid, but I got a 15k a year scholarship. My parents generously picked up 15 or 20k a year. I put the rest on very low-interest loans. It's doable.

(10-14-2015 11:25 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  What's tuition at Tulane? $50K or so? How do you run a deficit with an outrageous tuition like that. It's honestly beyond my comprehension how people can afford to go to school there.

They are generous with financial aid. Ever hear the saying "Nobody pays retail?" Applies here.

I did not qualify for need-based aid, but I got a 15k a year scholarship. My parents generously picked up 15 or 20k a year. I put the rest on very low-interest loans. It's doable.

$35K/year is doable? For MOST families, no. Consider yourself VERY fortunate that your folks were willing to spend that kind of $$$. You got a HUGE leg up on most kids coming out of HS. That's enough to cover multiple years of public school in NC. Not realistic AT ALL.

(10-13-2015 02:17 PM)MercerCo_BearCat Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:16 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Some other AAC schools may be in the AAU someday. Some will never be.

Curious, who have the chance? and who has no chance? I'm a little ignorant on the AAU.

Academic geek warning...

Research budgets will dictate this. There is something to setting academic standard for admissions, graduation rate, etc. (undergrad academic standing). They care about membership in various other organizations, how many PhDs your staff have. How many doctorates you issue. How many awards your faculty gets. Publications (and citations to them). All that fun stuff... But the real kicked for AAU membership is the research budget a school has. And its weighted to National Science Grants (Ag grants count about 50 cent on the dollar).

Tulane's medical school keeps them in the loop. But barely. The big boys of the AAU spend more on research than Tulane has in their entire budget (Tulane $500mil budget, Johns Hopikin's research budget is north of $2 Billion). Tulane pulls in research grants just north of $150mil. Oregon is dead last in the AAU for research dollars, at $110mil.

Nebraska and Syracuse were each asked to leave the AAU because they had less than $100mil in research grants (in Nebraska's defense, they got screwed on the ag grant issue AND their medical school is counted as a separate institution).

Cinci and South Florida both have large research budgets. Cinci with $430mil ($267 in Federal grants) USF with $433mil ($236 Fed). But most of those grants are not the competitive grants the AAU is looking for (National Science Foundation being the key ones). They also have other institutional issues trying to get AAU membership (PhDs granted standing in the academic community, publications, etc.)

UCONN was invited to apply to the AAU in 2013. They have less research dollars than Cinci or USF, but the dollars come from the right place. But at only $80mil in listed research grants, the outcome seems doubtful (unless other research grants aren't including in their budget).

Dartmouth. Georgia. A ton of other schools are trying to get in. Nebraska is trying to get back in (they hope to triple their "acceptable" grants soon). I don't see any other AAC schools with a chance.

Temple isn't a top 100 school and University, isn't selective, and fatally - doesn't have strong graduate programs and a has a tiny research budget ($17mil).

Tulsa and SMU are academically good schools. But Tulsa's total budget is $250mil (with a $1 Bil endowment though!), a disproportional research budget for the size of the school - but not nearly enough to matter. Also, while it is selective, it isn't hyper selective or a world renowned name (maybe in petroleum engineering circles, but...). Ivy league, Rice and Cal Institute of Tech are the only small school members (less than 15k kids) and have all been members for generations.

SMU suffers from the same problems. Not a major research institution.

Navy presents an unusual prospect, but I don't think they give a rats ass about joining the AAU and their goals don't align with each other anyway. Just a different animal.

I don't think any other AAC teams even think of themselves as prospective AAU members. Let alone getting the attention of the AAU itself.

Fun fact: The Big Ten board of presidents said they would not have invited Nebraska if they were not an AAU member. All Big Ten Members, but Nebraska, are AAU members (including non-sports member U Chicago). So in all the "expansion" talk, add "AAU" member to the Big Ten list.

(10-14-2015 07:45 AM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  It's a national trend to bring in a CEO/business type as president to provide fiscal management, rather than an accomplished PhD education administrator for academic cred. Especially with the public schools which are receiving less support from squeezed state budgets; rising costs of course affect all schools.

U of Iowa picked a non-academic..COO of Boston Market I believe. Iowa Faculty immediate delivered a no-confidence vote to its BOT. Faculty don't like it, but it's the trend.

Tulane's provost was finalist for that job; but now I believe he's out at Tulane via the housecleaning.

Tulane has a slightly larger endowment than us (ours is just over $1 billion), but we made a strategic design decision a couple of decades ago to further residentialize the campus. Now about 75% of the students live on campus. And one of our donors built a lot of the housing pretty much at a bargain rate. That basically means we receive the resident room and board funds wo much cost to the school. Also, with a smaller enrollment, our endowment seems to be able to take an occasional "hit" and recover nicely. We also are expandable - the campus - since we aren't locked into a downtown historic area or neighborhoods that are financially entrenched. Our campus is roughly the same size as SMU's, but about twice the size as Tulane's. We will probably keep expanding little by little.

Does Tulane have a master plan?

(10-14-2015 12:28 PM)JesseTU Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:17 PM)MercerCo_BearCat Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:16 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Some other AAC schools may be in the AAU someday. Some will never be.

Curious, who have the chance? and who has no chance? I'm a little ignorant on the AAU.

Academic geek warning...

Research budgets will dictate this. There is something to setting academic standard for admissions, graduation rate, etc. (undergrad academic standing). They care about membership in various other organizations, how many PhDs your staff have. How many doctorates you issue. How many awards your faculty gets. Publications (and citations to them). All that fun stuff... But the real kicked for AAU membership is the research budget a school has. And its weighted to National Science Grants (Ag grants count about 50 cent on the dollar).

Tulane's medical school keeps them in the loop. But barely. The big boys of the AAU spend more on research than Tulane has in their entire budget (Tulane $500mil budget, Johns Hopikin's research budget is north of $2 Billion). Tulane pulls in research grants just north of $150mil. Oregon is dead last in the AAU for research dollars, at $110mil.

Nebraska and Syracuse were each asked to leave the AAU because they had less than $100mil in research grants (in Nebraska's defense, they got screwed on the ag grant issue AND their medical school is counted as a separate institution).

Cinci and South Florida both have large research budgets. Cinci with $430mil ($267 in Federal grants) USF with $433mil ($236 Fed). But most of those grants are not the competitive grants the AAU is looking for (National Science Foundation being the key ones). They also have other institutional issues trying to get AAU membership (PhDs granted standing in the academic community, publications, etc.)

UCONN was invited to apply to the AAU in 2013. They have less research dollars than Cinci or USF, but the dollars come from the right place. But at only $80mil in listed research grants, the outcome seems doubtful (unless other research grants aren't including in their budget).

Dartmouth. Georgia. A ton of other schools are trying to get in. Nebraska is trying to get back in (they hope to triple their "acceptable" grants soon). I don't see any other AAC schools with a chance.

Temple isn't a top 100 school and University, isn't selective, and fatally - doesn't have strong graduate programs and a has a tiny research budget ($17mil).

Tulsa and SMU are academically good schools. But Tulsa's total budget is $250mil (with a $1 Bil endowment though!), a disproportional research budget for the size of the school - but not nearly enough to matter. Also, while it is selective, it isn't hyper selective or a world renowned name (maybe in petroleum engineering circles, but...). Ivy league, Rice and Cal Institute of Tech are the only small school members (less than 15k kids) and have all been members for generations.

SMU suffers from the same problems. Not a major research institution.

Navy presents an unusual prospect, but I don't think they give a rats ass about joining the AAU and their goals don't align with each other anyway. Just a different animal.

I don't think any other AAC teams even think of themselves as prospective AAU members. Let alone getting the attention of the AAU itself.

Fun fact: The Big Ten board of presidents said they would not have invited Nebraska if they were not an AAU member. All Big Ten Members, but Nebraska, are AAU members (including non-sports member U Chicago). So in all the "expansion" talk, add "AAU" member to the Big Ten list.

What you are saying here, is of the 12 AAC schools, Cincinnati, South Florida, and UCONN have the best chance of the conference on getting AAU membership?