(10-14-2015 01:12 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  Obviously he isn't going to USC (either one) but somewhere like Iowa State might take him. Keep in mind, Kansas hired Beaty (!), a guy that posters here wanted to fire as offensive coordinator.

Kansas football isn't known for their decision making abilities. They are terrible this year including a loss to FCS SOuth Dakota State.

IMO, what Kansas does isn't necessarily reflective of the market at-large.

(10-13-2015 11:14 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:10 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Judging by your signature you are in consulting, is that correct? Or at least some sort of line of work that causes you to travel a lot. When you fly for work and pay for a ticket on Southwest, you don't expect to get a first class Emirates experience, do you? You also don't expect to get a Spirit Airlines experience.

I've said it before, you get what you pay for.

Yes you do. However the same 1000 dollars gets you a coach seat in Emirates or United. Which would you rather fly? Of course, you won't get Emirates First Class, but there are huge differences even within the same price bracket. I fully expect that for our facilities and salaries, we will not be #1 in the country. Thats a far cry from where we are now, however.

All I ask for is the Emirates or Qatar coach experience for the dollars we spend. Not the Air India or United coach one we are getting.

I guess we are viewing the amount we are paying him differently. It seems to me that we are paying him the amount that should get us the results we have seen the last few years. A championship every so often, and near the top of the heap In conference each year.

Using the same plane analogy, I don't think we are paying him enough to get into Emirates coach, and I'm not sure why you think that we are based on the information available about the market rate for coaches. We are paying for Southwest, the best of the lower tier airlines, and getting those results.

I would prefer to get better results, but I don't see why that is the expectation when the Athletic Department is just now starting to show signs that they are willing to do what it takes to buy the Emirates coach ticket, and upgrade from Southwest.

(10-14-2015 05:43 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I guess we are viewing the amount we are paying him differently. It seems to me that we are paying him the amount that should get us the results we have seen the last few years. A championship every so often, and near the top of the heap In conference each year.

I believe the bolded statement is one that attracts sharp disagreement here. While some can say we are near the top of the heap as indicated by an 18-9 CUSA record since the beginning of 2011, others point to our last 3 CUSA losses--Marshall, La Tech, and WKU--and say we aren't near the top of the heap at all.

Kind of like being ranked 4th in a class of 13 with a 3.0 GPA, but there are three students with 3.7+. and next door there is the P5 classroom where all but 14% of the students test higher than we do.

(10-14-2015 06:02 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 05:43 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I guess we are viewing the amount we are paying him differently. It seems to me that we are paying him the amount that should get us the results we have seen the last few years. A championship every so often, and near the top of the heap In conference each year.

I believe the bolded statement is one that attracts sharp disagreement here. While some can say we are near the top of the heap as indicated by an 18-9 CUSA record since the beginning of 2011, others point to our last 3 CUSA losses--Marshall, La Tech, and WKU--and say we aren't near the top of the heap at all.

Kind of like being ranked 4th in a class of 13 with a 3.0 GPA, but there are three students with 3.7+. and next door there is the P5 classroom where all but 14% of the students test higher than we do.

Fair enough, and something I can agree with - we aren't exactly playing in the best conference in the land. And even though our finishes in the Land of Midgets has been good the last two years, the entire body of work isn't great.

2007 - 7/12
2008 - 2/12
2009 - 10/12
2010 - 8/12
2011 - 7/12
2012 - 5/12
2013 - 1/12
2014 - 3/12

Also, going by the last three loses, I can completely agree about the assessment of our place in the conference, and with three data points, you do start to develop a trend. But until the season is over, so I'm not quite ready to say we still aren't at the top of the heap. If we see the same team the rest of the year that played at WKU, then I'd be hard pressed to say we are even at the middle of the heap. But this is football, so I'm not exactly sure what will happen. I certainly didn't expect us to dominate Marshall like we did in 2013, just like I didn't expect us to get absolutely dominated by WKU in 2015. Any given Saturday, I guess.

Careful. you are disregarding the Gerlach thesis whereby nothing that happened before Game 7 of 2012 counts on Bailiff's record--it was his 67 game probationary training period and the records are expunged.

(10-14-2015 06:34 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  Careful. you are disregarding the Gerlach thesis whereby nothing that happened before Game 7 of 2012 counts on Bailiff's record--it was his 67 game probationary training period and the records are expunged.

What I'm saying is that the current 40 game record is 27-13 if a poster prior added correctly. Regardless of the conference, past history at Rice says that's well above average.

The improvement from the record we had prior to that under Bailiff is more than can be attributed to schedule alone. Jonathon's strength of schedule bears that out as well.

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 06:34 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  Careful. you are disregarding the Gerlach thesis whereby nothing that happened before Game 7 of 2012 counts on Bailiff's record--it was his 67 game probationary training period and the records are expunged.

What I'm saying is that the current 40 game record is 27-13 if a poster prior added correctly. Regardless of the conference, past history at Rice says that's well above average.

The improvement from the record we had prior to that under Bailiff is more than can be attributed to schedule alone. Jonathon's strength of schedule bears that out as well.

I count 27-12 from the Memphis game.

7 of the wins against teams that finished with winning records

8 of the 12 losses by 21 or more

(10-13-2015 06:35 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 04:46 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  Given Bailiff success - the three straight bowl appearances, one would think his name is being tossed around as a replacement somewhere. Any rumors on this front?

Of course not.

Perhaps the Cadinals will hire him...

(10-14-2015 01:50 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 10:28 PM)Pellet Wrote:  Gary Patterson is a pretty good coach who's got a good idea what it takes to succeed at a Texas academic school. We should get one the top assistants from his coaching tree.

Bailiff came from the same coaching tree that Patterson did, so we can check that box off.

I think that was the point...

(10-14-2015 09:14 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 01:50 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 10:28 PM)Pellet Wrote:  Gary Patterson is a pretty good coach who's got a good idea what it takes to succeed at a Texas academic school. We should get one the top assistants from his coaching tree.

Bailiff came from the same coaching tree that Patterson did, so we can check that box off.

I think that was the point...

Woosh.

(10-14-2015 07:26 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 06:34 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  Careful. you are disregarding the Gerlach thesis whereby nothing that happened before Game 7 of 2012 counts on Bailiff's record--it was his 67 game probationary training period and the records are expunged.

What I'm saying is that the current 40 game record is 27-13 if a poster prior added correctly. Regardless of the conference, past history at Rice says that's well above average.

The improvement from the record we had prior to that under Bailiff is more than can be attributed to schedule alone. Jonathon's strength of schedule bears that out as well.

I count 27-12 from the Memphis game.

7 of the wins against teams that finished with winning records

8 of the 12 losses by 21 or more

27-13

Losses

2012: Tulsa
2013: Texas A&M, Houston, North Texas, Mississippi State
2014: Notre Dame, Texas A&M, Old Dominion, Marshall, Louisiana Tech
2015: Texas, Baylor, Western Kentucky

(10-14-2015 09:49 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 07:26 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 06:34 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  Careful. you are disregarding the Gerlach thesis whereby nothing that happened before Game 7 of 2012 counts on Bailiff's record--it was his 67 game probationary training period and the records are expunged.

What I'm saying is that the current 40 game record is 27-13 if a poster prior added correctly. Regardless of the conference, past history at Rice says that's well above average.

The improvement from the record we had prior to that under Bailiff is more than can be attributed to schedule alone. Jonathon's strength of schedule bears that out as well.

I count 27-12 from the Memphis game.

7 of the wins against teams that finished with winning records

8 of the 12 losses by 21 or more

27-13

Losses

2012: Tulsa
2013: Texas A&M, Houston, North Texas, Mississippi State
2014: Notre Dame, Texas A&M, Old Dominion, Marshall, Louisiana Tech
2015: Texas, Baylor, Western Kentucky

Those loses to UH (31-26) and UNT (28-16) stung. I remember us blocking and returning the field goal against UH and then recovering the on-side kick and I thought that with all the momentum we were gonna pull out the win. Darn.

(10-14-2015 04:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 01:12 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  Obviously he isn't going to USC (either one) but somewhere like Iowa State might take him. Keep in mind, Kansas hired Beaty (!), a guy that posters here wanted to fire as offensive coordinator.

Kansas football isn't known for their decision making abilities. They are terrible this year including a loss to FCS SOuth Dakota State.

IMO, what Kansas does isn't necessarily reflective of the market at-large.

Of course they aren't. They are one data point. Wake Forest with Clawson is another. Wisconsin hired Paul Chryst who had a below-.500 record at Pitt. Auburn hired Gene Chizik who was 5-19 at the time. They waved that off because Iowa State (like Rice) is perceived as a very difficult place to win.

There just aren't very many Urban Meyers out there. Most schools have to take a chance on somebody with warts. And to outside observers, the things we see as Bailiff's warts are often interpreted as Rice's warts.

I'm not predicting that he will get hired away. But it's not unthinkable.

He is not going to be hired away.

(10-14-2015 11:37 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 04:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 01:12 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  Obviously he isn't going to USC (either one) but somewhere like Iowa State might take him. Keep in mind, Kansas hired Beaty (!), a guy that posters here wanted to fire as offensive coordinator.

Kansas football isn't known for their decision making abilities. They are terrible this year including a loss to FCS SOuth Dakota State.

IMO, what Kansas does isn't necessarily reflective of the market at-large.

Of course they aren't. They are one data point. Wake Forest with Clawson is another. Wisconsin hired Paul Chryst who had a below-.500 record at Pitt. Auburn hired Gene Chizik who was 5-19 at the time. They waved that off because Iowa State (like Rice) is perceived as a very difficult place to win.

There just aren't very many Urban Meyers out there. Most schools have to take a chance on somebody with warts. And to outside observers, the things we see as Bailiff's warts are often interpreted as Rice's warts.

I'm not predicting that he will get hired away. But it's not unthinkable.

(10-14-2015 12:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  He is not going to be hired away.

Not if the search committees read the Parliament, for sure.

I thought he might be hired away last year or this year. I am less sure of that now.

Does anybody know if he has put his name into consideration for other jobs? if the perception is that he is not on the market, that would be a factor in others contacting him. Kind of like some of our top baseball prospects not being high draft choice because they let the pros know they are dead set on college.

Jerry Berndt was hired away after leading Rice to an 0-11 season.

(10-14-2015 12:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  He is not going to be hired away.

(10-14-2015 11:37 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 04:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 01:12 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  Obviously he isn't going to USC (either one) but somewhere like Iowa State might take him. Keep in mind, Kansas hired Beaty (!), a guy that posters here wanted to fire as offensive coordinator.

Kansas football isn't known for their decision making abilities. They are terrible this year including a loss to FCS SOuth Dakota State.

IMO, what Kansas does isn't necessarily reflective of the market at-large.

Of course they aren't. They are one data point. Wake Forest with Clawson is another. Wisconsin hired Paul Chryst who had a below-.500 record at Pitt. Auburn hired Gene Chizik who was 5-19 at the time. They waved that off because Iowa State (like Rice) is perceived as a very difficult place to win.

There just aren't very many Urban Meyers out there. Most schools have to take a chance on somebody with warts. And to outside observers, the things we see as Bailiff's warts are often interpreted as Rice's warts.

I'm not predicting that he will get hired away. But it's not unthinkable.

Yes, it is pretty much unthinkable, unless you apply quantum mechanics principles to his chances. As I posted last week, I am not a betting man, and even I would bet that he will never be the head coach at another team.

(10-14-2015 07:14 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  What I'm saying is that the current 40 game record is 27-13 if a poster prior added correctly. Regardless of the conference, past history at Rice says that's well above average.

I hate to keep banging on this door...

But do you think a 3.0 in Engineering at Rice represents 'the same' intellect as a 3.0 in Sociology at Houston Community College?

If you have one child getting c's at Rice and another at HCC getting b's, is the HCC child 'well above' your Rice child intellectually?

You CAN'T disregard the conference. You CAN'T disregard the schedule. If you could, you'd be arguing that going 13-0 in the SEC with 4 top 10 teams OOC is no better than going 13-0 in CUSA with 4 FCS teams OOC.

We were 10-3 when we played 6-6 Miss St. in the bowl. Were we the better team?

I can buy a WHOLE LOT of the arguments in favor of being optimistic and having a positive outlook on things... but I simply can't accept ignoring basic reality.

a) it makes us argue over things that we really shouldn't need to argue over and
b) creates the impression that we are being blind, which leads to unfair characterizations and even more arguments.... ALL about things completely unrelated to anything that matters.

You can't compare results under different conditions without paying attention to the differences in the conditions.

Anyone familiar with Drew Mehringer? He played at Rice in 2006 and was a student assistant from 2007-09 (when Tom Herman was OC). He graduated from Rice in 2010, then spent 2010 and 2011 as a grad assistant at Iowa State working with the WR (for Tom Herman, who was OC). Then he became a grad assistant at Ohio State in 2012 working with TE & WR and 2013 working with the o-line (again for Tom Herman, who was OC). He also earned his masters degree. Then he spent 2014 as the co-OC and QB coach at James Madison. Now he's the WR coach and recruiting coordinator for UH (back with Tom Herman).

Seems like an up-and-coming coaching talent with that resume, and Tom Herman clearly thinks highly of him. I don't know anything about him other than the synopsis above, but I'm kind of wishing Bailiff would bring him on staff!

Anyone interact with him during his time at Rice?

(10-14-2015 01:16 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 12:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  He is not going to be hired away.

(10-14-2015 11:37 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 04:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 01:12 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  Obviously he isn't going to USC (either one) but somewhere like Iowa State might take him. Keep in mind, Kansas hired Beaty (!), a guy that posters here wanted to fire as offensive coordinator.

Kansas football isn't known for their decision making abilities. They are terrible this year including a loss to FCS SOuth Dakota State.

IMO, what Kansas does isn't necessarily reflective of the market at-large.

Of course they aren't. They are one data point. Wake Forest with Clawson is another. Wisconsin hired Paul Chryst who had a below-.500 record at Pitt. Auburn hired Gene Chizik who was 5-19 at the time. They waved that off because Iowa State (like Rice) is perceived as a very difficult place to win.

There just aren't very many Urban Meyers out there. Most schools have to take a chance on somebody with warts. And to outside observers, the things we see as Bailiff's warts are often interpreted as Rice's warts.

I'm not predicting that he will get hired away. But it's not unthinkable.

Yes, it is pretty much unthinkable, unless you apply quantum mechanics principles to his chances. As I posted last week, I am not a betting man, and even I would bet that he will never be the head coach at another team.

Hire Bailiff:
Beats P5 teams? No, overall record is very poor.
Competes against P5 teams? No, overall record is very poor.
Dominating his conference? No, has won one conference championship.
Defeated his rivals? No, poor record against UH.

He is also about to turn 60, this is his last job.