(10-11-2015 12:08 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:59 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  what is OhioU?

Ohio University ... it would be a silly pretension to abbreviate them OU on a national college sports forum, where OU would likely be understood by most as Oklahoma (as that is their common abbreviation, despite being the University of Oklahoma) or, failing that, Oregon.

what is silly is not calling the by their actual name- Ohio.

(10-10-2015 11:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, I for one would've forced every state to start a new, public university dedicated to agriculture, engineering and ROTC with the land grant money. And I would've just sold federal land and given the money to the states in shares proportional to their representation.

But, that's not what happened.


However, I think around half the states ended up with a separate, public university to that end besides a public University of [state]. And most of those are flagship equivalents to those U of [state], and three are the outright flagships of their state.

Wash St - flagship equivalent
Oregon St - flagship equivalent
Montana St - flagship equivalent
Utah St
Colorado St
New Mexico St
ND St - flagship equivalent
SD St - flagship equivalent
Kansas St - flagship equivalent
Oklahoma St - flagship equivalent
Texas A&M - flagship equivalent
Iowa St - flagship equivalent
Louisiana St - flagship ** (the original U of LA is now Tulane, which is private)
Mich St - flagship equivalent
Purdue - flagship equivalent
Miss St - flagship equivalent
Auburn - flagship equivalent
Clemson - flagship equivalent
NC St - flagship equivalent
Virginia Tech - flagship equivalent
Ohio St - flagship ** (the original U of Ohio still exists as a public school, but is at a lower level than Ohio St)
Penn St - flagship ** (the original U of Penn still exists as a private school)

22 out of 50



The following schools market themselves simply as "[state] State U", but are not land grants. A couple are flagship equivalent, though.

Idaho State - FCS
Arizona State - **flagship equivalent
Texas State
Minnesota State - DII
Illinois State - FCS, also the original "Normal school" (teachers college)
Missouri State - FCS
Arkansas State
Indiana State - FCS
Kentucky State - DII, historically black
Tennessee State - FCS, historically black (but merged with UT-Nashville)
Alabama State - FCS, historically black
Florida State - **flagship equivalent
Georgia State
SC State - FCS, historically black
Virginia State - DII, historically black
WV State - DII, historically black
Delaware State - FCS, historically black

SC State is a land grant

http://www.scsu.edu/1890/1890background.aspx

I know there was a separate Act for black schools. I have no disrespect for that or really not much else to say about it, at all.

The context of the thread, and what's commonly understood when just saying "land grant", is the 1862 Act.

Not going to argue with you about that, it is what it is.


So yes, you are correct. Several of the black schools are 1890 Act "land grants", which is not the commonly associated group for the colloquially used term.

(10-10-2015 10:21 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Virginia State - DII, historically black

Just a fun addition here, Virginia is one of four states that refers to itself as "The Commonwealth of [Name]" where the others would say "The State of [Name]." So Virginia Commonwealth University is intended to be considered this way. That being said, VCU only gained that name after a 1968 merger, while Virginia State goes back to 1882.

Thanks for the info. I understand what you're saying.

I just included a list of schools that market themselves like that, even though they're not (1862) land grants.

(10-10-2015 08:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  ....Ohio St - flagship ** (the original U of Ohio still exists as a public school, but is at a lower level than Ohio St)
...

how is Ohio University at a lower level than Ohio State University? Both schools field Division 1 athletics and play in the same subdivision (FBS) of football. Academically both schools are rated as Tier 1 schools by USNWR.

Research, endowment, enrollment, budget, athletic budget, athletic revenue ... pick your poison.

I don't think Ohio is even the top public university in Ohio, excluding Ohio St.

Come on, now.

(10-11-2015 11:45 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 11:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, I for one would've forced every state to start a new, public university dedicated to agriculture, engineering and ROTC with the land grant money. And I would've just sold federal land and given the money to the states in shares proportional to their representation.

But, that's not what happened.


However, I think around half the states ended up with a separate, public university to that end besides a public University of [state]. And most of those are flagship equivalents to those U of [state], and three are the outright flagships of their state.

Wash St - flagship equivalent
Oregon St - flagship equivalent
Montana St - flagship equivalent
Utah St
Colorado St
New Mexico St
ND St - flagship equivalent
SD St - flagship equivalent
Kansas St - flagship equivalent
Oklahoma St - flagship equivalent
Texas A&M - flagship equivalent
Iowa St - flagship equivalent
Louisiana St - flagship ** (the original U of LA is now Tulane, which is private)
Mich St - flagship equivalent
Purdue - flagship equivalent
Miss St - flagship equivalent
Auburn - flagship equivalent
Clemson - flagship equivalent
NC St - flagship equivalent
Virginia Tech - flagship equivalent
Ohio St - flagship ** (the original U of Ohio still exists as a public school, but is at a lower level than Ohio St)
Penn St - flagship ** (the original U of Penn still exists as a private school)

22 out of 50



The following schools market themselves simply as "[state] State U", but are not land grants. A couple are flagship equivalent, though.

Idaho State - FCS
Arizona State - **flagship equivalent
Texas State
Minnesota State - DII
Illinois State - FCS, also the original "Normal school" (teachers college)
Missouri State - FCS
Arkansas State
Indiana State - FCS
Kentucky State - DII, historically black
Tennessee State - FCS, historically black (but merged with UT-Nashville)
Alabama State - FCS, historically black
Florida State - **flagship equivalent
Georgia State
SC State - FCS, historically black
Virginia State - DII, historically black
WV State - DII, historically black
Delaware State - FCS, historically black

SC State is a land grant

http://www.scsu.edu/1890/1890background.aspx

I know there was a separate Act for black schools. I have no disrespect for that or really not much else to say about it, at all.

The context of the thread, and what's commonly understood when just saying "land grant", is the 1862 Act.

Not going to argue with you about that, it is what it is.


So yes, you are correct. Several of the black schools are 1890 Act "land grants", which is not the commonly associated group for the colloquially used term.

You are still wrong.

What is now South Carolina State University was created from the 1862 Morrill Act.

From the link above:

Quote:For South Carolina State University, the First and Second Morrill Acts are the foundations on which the university was established. The university was first created in 1872 in compliance with the 1862 Morrill Land Grant Act, when the South Carolina General Assembly created the South Carolina Agricultural and Mechanical Institute in 1872 in Orangeburg, S.C. This institute existed within the institution of Claflin College, now Claflin University, from 1872 until 1896.

Under the 1890 Morrill Land Grant Act, the South Carolina General Assembly enacted legislation in 1895 for the severance of the South Carolina Agricultural and Mechanical Institute, from Claflin College.

On March 4, 1896, SC State University opened independent of Claflin College as a land-grant institution under the name of the Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina.

Looks like you are partly correct. Orangeburg was the original land grant for SC, and then they transferred it to Clemson and made Orangeburg the 1890 Act school for blacks.

Quote:Thomas Green Clemson, the university's founder, came to the foothills of South Carolina in 1838, when he married Anna Maria Calhoun, daughter of John C. Calhoun, a South Carolina statesman and seventh U.S. Vice President. When Clemson died on April 6, 1888, he left most of his estate, which he inherited from his wife, in his will to be used to establish a college that would teach scientific agriculture and the mechanical arts to South Carolinians. His decision was largely influenced by future South Carolina Governor Benjamin Tillman. Tillman lobbied the South Carolina General Assembly to create the school as an agricultural institution for the state and the resolution passed by only one vote.

In his will, Clemson explicitly stated that he wanted the school to be modeled after what is now Mississippi State University: "This institution, I desire, to be under the control and management of a board of trustees, a part of whom are hereinafter appointed, and to be modeled after the Agricultural College of Mississippi as far as practicable."

In November 1889, South Carolina Governor John Peter Richardson III signed the bill, thus establishing the Clemson Agricultural College of South Carolina. As a result, federal funds for agricultural education from the Morrill Land-Grant Colleges Act and the Hatch Act of 1887 were transferred from South Carolina College to Clemson.

Clemson Agricultural College formally opened in July 1893 with an initial enrollment of 446. From its beginning, the college was an all-white male military school. The school remained this way until 1955, at which time it changed to "civilian" status for students and became a coeducational institution.

Quote:The university's beginnings were as the South Carolina Agricultural and Mechanical Institute in 1872 in Orangeburg, S.C created in 1872 in compliance with the 1862 Land Grant Act within the institution of Claflin College, now Claflin University.

In 1896 the South Carolina General Assembly passed an act of separation and established a separate institution - the "Colored Normal Industrial Agricultural and Mechanical College of South Carolina", its official name until 1954.

Thanks for the info!

(10-11-2015 11:48 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 08:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(10-10-2015 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  ....Ohio St - flagship ** (the original U of Ohio still exists as a public school, but is at a lower level than Ohio St)
...

how is Ohio University at a lower level than Ohio State University? Both schools field Division 1 athletics and play in the same subdivision (FBS) of football. Academically both schools are rated as Tier 1 schools by USNWR.

Research, endowment, enrollment, budget, athletic budget, athletic revenue ... pick your poison.

I don't think Ohio is even the top public university in Ohio, excluding Ohio St.

Come on, now.

a variance does not equal different levels. Its important to remember that OSU's academic standing is relatively new, 20yrs ago OSU was a diploma mill and a safety school for a lot of kids applying to other schools in the state, like OHIO.