Notre Dame will not go all in unless Navy comes with them, and Navy will not go unless Army comes along as well.

(10-05-2015 10:35 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Old Big East proved that a mass football/non-football group pairing is not long-lasting, self-sustaining nor in the best interests of the schools as a whole. While the original goal of the Big East in the 1980's was big-time college basketball, the pursuit of being a power conference in football ultimately doomed the conference. The ACC is better off with football schools (and still being the top overall basketball conference) and the Big East is better off being a basketball-only league with a clear basketball-driven focus. Both conferences have like-minded schools that all get along with one another. No need to cause unrest with either just for the sake of addition(s).

With that being said, I sincerely doubt schools like Georgetown, Villanova, and St. Johns would want to turn back the clock and return to being in a league where football is the driving force in decision-making, and, thus, not having a large say over league matters in general. It's what caused so much unrest and uncertainty in the league for numerous years.

Indeed we would not. The ACC is a great basketball conference, but Georgetown has no interest in contending with football issues.

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

(10-07-2015 12:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Notre Dame will not go all in unless Navy comes with them, and Navy will not go unless Army comes along as well.

Or at all....

(10-06-2015 04:57 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 04:44 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 12:22 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 11:52 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 11:40 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  (3) Not sure why you included BC...but anyways...

Because the proposal was to put BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Notre Dame into a division apart from the rest of the current ACC.

Nice rebuttal to all my points.

As far as BC basketball is concerned, it'd probably be in the best interest to be grouped with northern/old Big East schools. Perhaps that would re-energize their fanbase. Regional rivals go a long way when the product is lacking.

Nope. Wedge is 100% correct. Doing as you suggest, would harm the football program and that takes full priority over anything else. At BC, football is #1, followed by hockey. Basketball is #3 - which helps explain why it has been in the doldrums these past few years (not that BC isn't trying to correct that).

BC's move of the ACC was all about football. Pure and simple. That's where the priority is, and always will be. You would be hard pressed to find any in the BC fanbase that would change that.

Both of you underestimate how much grouping some of the old eastern independents with Notre Dame would reignite old annual rivalries, and generate interest among the fans, and improve both football and basketball. The Lambert Trophy used to be bitterly fought over, and BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all have their name on the list of Lambert Trophy winners. Fans of eastern football have basically lost almost every rival they ever had, and the ACC isn't really facilitating those that remain.

WVU isn't alone in that, although we are on the most remote island. But that's the situation you don't even consider, and it's a pretty big factor.

Agreed. But, I seriously doubt that ND has much interest in joining a football conference to achieve this "dream".

(10-06-2015 06:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 10:00 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 07:28 AM)XLance Wrote:  Cincinnati and Notre Dame give you this:

NORTH
Notre Dame
Louisville
Cincinnati
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Miami

SOUTH
UVa
Wake Forest
NC State
Carolina
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Dook
Florida State

Without adding Notre Dame as a full member, there is no benefit to the ACC to expand beyond our current number.

Status quo is the way to go!

It's just a matter of time, besides you will need the Irish to be on the ACC network so that you can pick them up in Mouth of Wilson.

An antenna will pick up NBC. An internet connection will allow me to use the WatchND or WatchESPN app and stream it on my TV via Chromecast.

No real need for an ACC Network here.

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's too bad. I would have thoroughly enjoyed watching the ACC implode.

(10-06-2015 06:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The ACC is a death sentence for any northern program to join because you'll be so over matched in recruiting by Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson ect that you'll be regulated to the second division.

Virginia Tech and Louisville have football at a high level and are southern enough where they can survive in the ACC. Pitt, Syracuse and BC I think are lost in the ACC abyss. Nobody can name all the teams in the conference anymore.

The fatal flaw about the multi-region power conference is it grows the amount of schools that have to finish in the second division from 3-4 with losing conference records to 6 or 7.

The quantity vs. quality issue is going to start to become a problem with programs sitting in 16, 18, 20 team P5 conferences with no realistic hope of sniffing a conference championship.

No, a death sentence is being a northeastern team that is long-term outside of the P5, IMO. As far as being overmatched, BC is in the top half of the ACC in terms of wins and losses since they joined, so that statement isn't true. Sure, not elite most years, but hardly overmatched.

Can't deny that a Northeast program has to be in a P5 to recruit. Temple excepted because they have local Eastern PA/NJ base to work with.

BC I just think could do better for itself academically/athletically in the B1G over the glut of ACC schools. The ACC is starting to get a perception that its not on the level of the SEC/B1G in football quality with the glut of middling power conference teams. B1G would help BC stand out more, IMO.

Keyvone Bruton (VA)- Duke, Purdue, Wake, VT
TJ Simmons (FL)- A lot
Jager Gardner (NC)- Virginia
Dana Levine (FL)- Syracuse, Minnesota
Cequan Jefferson (VA)- VT
Freddie Booth-Lloyd (FL)- GT, MSU, Iowa State

Are recruits we have gotten in the last 3 classes from outside of PA/NJ with P5 offers.

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

(10-07-2015 01:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

Then explain how the universal sure thing UConn isn't in the ACC right now even with the support of the traditional ACC power brokers and our financial partner ESPN.

Explain why the UConn supporter schools capitulated on Louisville so rapidly when in past expansion scenarios they dug in their heels in opposition of teams they didn't want even when it was a forgone conclusion.

(10-07-2015 01:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

Then explain how the universal sure thing UConn isn't in the ACC right now even with the support of the traditional ACC power brokers and our financial partner ESPN.

Explain why the UConn supporter schools capitulated on Louisville so rapidly when in past expansion scenarios they dug in their heels in opposition of teams they didn't want even when it was a forgone conclusion.

(10-07-2015 11:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 04:57 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Both of you underestimate how much grouping some of the old eastern independents with Notre Dame would reignite old annual rivalries, and generate interest among the fans, and improve both football and basketball. The Lambert Trophy used to be bitterly fought over, and BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all have their name on the list of Lambert Trophy winners. Fans of eastern football have basically lost almost every rival they ever had, and the ACC isn't really facilitating those that remain.

WVU isn't alone in that, although we are on the most remote island. But that's the situation you don't even consider, and it's a pretty big factor.

Agreed. But, I seriously doubt that ND has much interest in joining a football conference to achieve this "dream".

Eastern football had a similar problem, which is why there isn't any eastern football any longer. There was always a key player that didn't want to go along with the crowd, wanted more than an equal share, or thought they could get a better deal elsewhere. What else is new?

(10-07-2015 01:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 01:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 03:22 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If the ACC expands for basketball purposes, you can say goodbye to Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII. I'm sure the SEC and Big Ten would start a raid as well. Goodbye P5, hello G5!

That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

Then explain how the universal sure thing UConn isn't in the ACC right now even with the support of the traditional ACC power brokers and our financial partner ESPN.

Explain why the UConn supporter schools capitulated on Louisville so rapidly when in past expansion scenarios they dug in their heels in opposition of teams they didn't want even when it was a forgone conclusion.

Well, you know the answer to that one Kaplony. Those pesky Jesuits in Chestnut Hill single-handedly exerted their total power and control over the ACC - probably using "Jesuit Hypnosis" - to make sure the ACC bent to their wishes! :) (Sorry, just couldn't resist!)

(10-07-2015 05:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 04:57 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Both of you underestimate how much grouping some of the old eastern independents with Notre Dame would reignite old annual rivalries, and generate interest among the fans, and improve both football and basketball. The Lambert Trophy used to be bitterly fought over, and BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all have their name on the list of Lambert Trophy winners. Fans of eastern football have basically lost almost every rival they ever had, and the ACC isn't really facilitating those that remain.

WVU isn't alone in that, although we are on the most remote island. But that's the situation you don't even consider, and it's a pretty big factor.

Agreed. But, I seriously doubt that ND has much interest in joining a football conference to achieve this "dream".

Eastern football had a similar problem, which is why there isn't any eastern football any longer. There was always a key player that didn't want to go along with the crowd, wanted more than an equal share, or thought they could get a better deal elsewhere. What else is new?

The conference that could have been:
All Sports:
WVU - Pitt - PSU - SU - BC - ND - RU - Miami - VT - UMD

Basketball:
GU - UConn - 'Nova - STJ

Had that conference happened around 1990, the region would be very, very different today. College athletics as a whole would be very, very different today.

(10-07-2015 01:02 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(10-06-2015 06:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The ACC is a death sentence for any northern program to join because you'll be so over matched in recruiting by Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson ect that you'll be regulated to the second division.

Virginia Tech and Louisville have football at a high level and are southern enough where they can survive in the ACC. Pitt, Syracuse and BC I think are lost in the ACC abyss. Nobody can name all the teams in the conference anymore.

The fatal flaw about the multi-region power conference is it grows the amount of schools that have to finish in the second division from 3-4 with losing conference records to 6 or 7.

The quantity vs. quality issue is going to start to become a problem with programs sitting in 16, 18, 20 team P5 conferences with no realistic hope of sniffing a conference championship.

No, a death sentence is being a northeastern team that is long-term outside of the P5, IMO. As far as being overmatched, BC is in the top half of the ACC in terms of wins and losses since they joined, so that statement isn't true. Sure, not elite most years, but hardly overmatched.

Can't deny that a Northeast program has to be in a P5 to recruit. Temple excepted because they have local Eastern PA/NJ base to work with.

BC I just think could do better for itself academically/athletically in the B1G over the glut of ACC schools. The ACC is starting to get a perception that its not on the level of the SEC/B1G in football quality with the glut of middling power conference teams. B1G would help BC stand out more, IMO.

Keyvone Bruton (VA)- Duke, Purdue, Wake, VT
TJ Simmons (FL)- A lot
Jager Gardner (NC)- Virginia
Dana Levine (FL)- Syracuse, Minnesota
Cequan Jefferson (VA)- VT
Freddie Booth-Lloyd (FL)- GT, MSU, Iowa State

Are recruits we have gotten in the last 3 classes from outside of PA/NJ with P5 offers.

That's good.

(10-07-2015 08:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 01:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 01:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 10:30 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  That wasn't going to happen in 2012, and it sure as h*ll is NOT happening now!!

LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

Then explain how the universal sure thing UConn isn't in the ACC right now even with the support of the traditional ACC power brokers and our financial partner ESPN.

Explain why the UConn supporter schools capitulated on Louisville so rapidly when in past expansion scenarios they dug in their heels in opposition of teams they didn't want even when it was a forgone conclusion.

Well, you know the answer to that one Kaplony. Those pesky Jesuits in Chestnut Hill single-handedly exerted their total power and control over the ACC - probably using "Jesuit Hypnosis" - to make sure the ACC bent to their wishes! :) (Sorry, just couldn't resist!)

Newsflash: You can't resist every time there is even a mention of UConn. There is absolutely no need to write that as we all know you cannot resist.

You also know the issue with BC stems back to the Cuse/Pitt (talk about big time football right, Kaploney?) expansion, but of course you are being intentionally dense. You simply refuse to give even an inch on any BC/UConn discussion and instead insist on taking your pot shots at every oppurtunity. Meanwhile BC gets closer and closer to closing in on a decade without an ACC title in any sport.

Additionally, there have been plenty of Uconn folks in the know that have confirmed what Kaploney heard- but specific to FSU leaving. It is probably likely Clemson would have rode FSU's coat tails out as well.

As I said before, I wish they did. The ACC conference that would have been left would have been a great combination of old Big East teams and the ACC schools that did not run off to the Big 12.

(10-08-2015 06:43 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 08:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 01:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 01:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL

If the ACC would have added UConn instead of Louisville I know for a fact that at that point the Big XII became a realistic option for Clemson. I know this for a fact because one of the people who would have making the decision told me himself.

That's a cool story you've got there, bro! Too bad it's not true.

Then explain how the universal sure thing UConn isn't in the ACC right now even with the support of the traditional ACC power brokers and our financial partner ESPN.

Explain why the UConn supporter schools capitulated on Louisville so rapidly when in past expansion scenarios they dug in their heels in opposition of teams they didn't want even when it was a forgone conclusion.

Well, you know the answer to that one Kaplony. Those pesky Jesuits in Chestnut Hill single-handedly exerted their total power and control over the ACC - probably using "Jesuit Hypnosis" - to make sure the ACC bent to their wishes! :) (Sorry, just couldn't resist!)

Newsflash: You can't resist every time there is even a mention of UConn. There is absolutely no need to write that as we all know you cannot resist.

You also know the issue with BC stems back to the Cuse/Pitt (talk about big time football right, Kaploney?) expansion, but of course you are being intentionally dense. You simply refuse to give even an inch on any BC/UConn discussion and instead insist on taking your pot shots at every oppurtunity. Meanwhile BC gets closer and closer to closing in on a decade without an ACC title in any sport.

Additionally, there have been plenty of Uconn folks in the know that have confirmed what Kaploney heard- but specific to FSU leaving. It is probably likely Clemson would have rode FSU's coat tails out as well.

As I said before, I wish they did. The ACC conference that would have been left would have been a great combination of old Big East teams and the ACC schools that did not run off to the Big 12.

Oh, lighten up, Francis.

It was a joke, with my tongue firmly placed in my cheek - i.e. "Jesuit Hypnosis" :) ) And you know exactly the context for that joke.

Of course, Uconn fans NEVER take a so-called "potshot" at BC or any other school - on here or in any other place. No, never! :)

You might want to grow a thicker skin. This is not a Uconn fan board.

How about just rebuild the Southern Conference circa 1930

UNC, NC State, Virginia, VT, Maryland, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida, Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, LSU, Tulane, Duke, VMI, Sewanee, and Washington & Lee.

Expansion of worthwhile teams is not plausible until an ACC Network actually exists, and then expansion is predicated upon that network being a cash cow and pressing how its huge TV market advantage.

Regardless ... you keep your damn no-football-playin schools out. Yes, that includes UCONN.