(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(09-29-2015 10:03 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

Don't try to act like you knew the answer and we're trying to educate the rest of us. It was a stupid question that you were provided several answers that you seemed to have issues with.

When does it ever get 70 in the summer on Mars? From what I've read the average temp on Mars is negative 67 F.

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

(10-01-2015 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

I've always wondered why people think that what makes life possible on earth is what will be needed for life on other planets? Seems kind of presumptuous to think alien life will need the same things as earth life. Why can't there be something completely illogical, at least to us, that can be some alien form of life on another planet?

(10-01-2015 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

Tell that to this guy


Chris Carberry, executive director of Explore Mars, a non-profit organization that aims to advance the goal of sending humans to Mars within the next two decades, welcomed Monday's NASA announcement. "We've been speculating about whether there is liquid water on Mars for some time, but now that it has been confirmed, it might have some significant implications," he told FoxNews.com. "First, it greatly enhances the chances of past or present life on Mars.

(10-01-2015 10:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

Tell that to this guy


Chris Carberry, executive director of Explore Mars, a non-profit organization that aims to advance the goal of sending humans to Mars within the next two decades, welcomed Monday's NASA announcement. "We've been speculating about whether there is liquid water on Mars for some time, but now that it has been confirmed, it might have some significant implications," he told FoxNews.com. "First, it greatly enhances the chances of past or present life on Mars.

Don't have to, this guy I'm sure understands the difference between microorganisms that could possibly exist today on Mars and plants popping up on the sides of mountains in the springtime. A point that 200 years brought up but you continued to "play" dumb. If we're talking about Mars past then the environment would be completely different wouldn't it?

How did a thread about highly saline water present in subfreezing -63 average temperature conditions turn into an argument about how plants grow?

I am seriously confused.

In my less charitable moments, I start to suspect that some people who are regulars here look at their usernames as something of a personal brand that requires regular maintenance and updating, regardless of the best needs of the community, and/or the truth.

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

Honestly, if that is what you meant... it wasn't very clear at all. I have re-read it and although I accept that you intended to say something else, i still read it the other way... and it was compounded by your 'challenge'.

The actual answer to your question is that although those are the most common elements (air, sun, water, earth, nutrients) they are neither the ONLY elements possible, nor does their presence guarantee 'life'. In the simplest and non-scientific example, it is entirely possible that the nature of the atmosphere and radiation 'negates' some of those elements... so I still don't see how my comments and yours coincide... You seem to be asking for the 'traditional' things, when it seems entirely probable that what is traditional on earth wouldn't necessarily be traditional on Mars... just as what is traditional for life at 5000 feet below sea level isn't the same as at 5000 feet above on our own planet.

If you intended to 'teach' people and let them come to their own conclusion, you are now agreeing with a conclusion that essentially doesn't assume that what is necessary for life here would be necessary for life there. It may be necessary for OUR life and OUR plants there, but not necessarily for Mars' life and plants. Yet you seem to have wanted people to say (and believed yourself, since you wondered aloud why there weren't plants there) that those were (universally) the elements of life.

My point is that those elements aren't universal even on this planet... so I really don't understand why you were asking people to list elements.

(10-01-2015 12:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

Honestly, if that is what you meant... it wasn't very clear at all. I have re-read it and although I accept that you intended to say something else, i still read it the other way... and it was compounded by your 'challenge'.

The actual answer to your question is that although those are the most common elements (air, sun, water, earth, nutrients) they are neither the ONLY elements possible, nor does their presence guarantee 'life'. In the simplest and non-scientific example, it is entirely possible that the nature of the atmosphere and radiation 'negates' some of those elements... so I still don't see how my comments and yours coincide... You seem to be asking for the 'traditional' things, when it seems entirely probable that what is traditional on earth wouldn't necessarily be traditional on Mars... just as what is traditional for life at 5000 feet below sea level isn't the same as at 5000 feet above on our own planet.

If you intended to 'teach' people and let them come to their own conclusion, you are now agreeing with a conclusion that essentially doesn't assume that what is necessary for life here would be necessary for life there. It may be necessary for OUR life and OUR plants there, but not necessarily for Mars' life and plants. Yet you seem to have wanted people to say (and believed yourself, since you wondered aloud why there weren't plants there) that those were (universally) the elements of life.

My point is that those elements aren't universal even on this planet... so I really don't understand why you were asking people to list elements.

I will admit that what I said was vague. I didn't mean to suggest that Mars should have forests and trees since there is running water.

What I meant was that if there is indeed running water on Mars, was it then possible that there is some form of plant life.

Once people suggested that this was impossible and I was stupid to even suggest it that I started challenging people to list the required elements necessary for plant life knowing full well that all of them existed on Mars.


I had no idea that some would actually believe that the sun didn't shine on Mars or that it could never be 70 degrees on Mars.

(10-01-2015 01:33 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I will admit that what I said was vague. I didn't mean to suggest that Mars should have forests and trees since there is running water.

What I meant was that if there is indeed running water on Mars, was it then possible that there is some form of plant life.

Once people suggested that this was impossible and I was stupid to even suggest it that I started challenging people to list the required elements necessary for plant life knowing full well that all of them existed on Mars.


I had no idea that some would actually believe that the sun didn't shine on Mars or that it could never be 70 degrees on Mars.

Fair enough. Not speaking for everyone, but I think it entirely possible that some of them were also somewhat vague... in response to a vague comment.

The fact is and you know that the list of required elements doesn't actually exist... even on earth.... especially in that despite many similarities, there are also vast differences between here and mars.

I think our atmosphere is 90% of the difference between us and most planets, including Mars.

(10-01-2015 06:34 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  The one issue with taking something from Earth to Mars could also be something that could cause disease to any potential life form already on Mars.

So we make sure to give every plant it's own space suit? :)

(10-01-2015 03:53 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 01:33 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I will admit that what I said was vague. I didn't mean to suggest that Mars should have forests and trees since there is running water.

What I meant was that if there is indeed running water on Mars, was it then possible that there is some form of plant life.

Once people suggested that this was impossible and I was stupid to even suggest it that I started challenging people to list the required elements necessary for plant life knowing full well that all of them existed on Mars.


I had no idea that some would actually believe that the sun didn't shine on Mars or that it could never be 70 degrees on Mars.

Fair enough. Not speaking for everyone, but I think it entirely possible that some of them were also somewhat vague... in response to a vague comment.

The fact is and you know that the list of required elements doesn't actually exist... even on earth.... especially in that despite many similarities, there are also vast differences between here and mars.

I think our atmosphere is 90% of the difference between us and most planets, including Mars.

I don't disagree. I just know that we have found life on earth in places where we never thought life could exist like the deep ocean and frozen poles. Knowing that, I was speculating that with the existence of running water on Mars, there might be a life form that has flourished despite the extreme conditions. That isn't a stretch of the imagination IMHO. But to some, I'm suddenly an idiot who shouldn't be teaching. But hey, that's par for the course around here. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying.

(10-01-2015 10:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

Tell that to this guy


Chris Carberry, executive director of Explore Mars, a non-profit organization that aims to advance the goal of sending humans to Mars within the next two decades, welcomed Monday's NASA announcement. "We've been speculating about whether there is liquid water on Mars for some time, but now that it has been confirmed, it might have some significant implications," he told FoxNews.com. "First, it greatly enhances the chances of past or present life on Mars.

it also sticks a dagger in that omnipotent god thingy....

(10-02-2015 09:53 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 10:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:33 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  [quote='Fitbud' pid='12439675' dateline='1443538995']
If it gets up to 70 in the summer and there is flowing water in some places, i wonder why plants haven't grown?

This was your original question. It reads as though you expect plants to be present now with flowing water and 70 degree temperatures with complete disregard for everything else necessary. You even completely ignore the chemical composition of the water, which would make sustaining plant life as we know it here on earth impossible.

I erroneously assumed that everyone knew that the other necessary components were present. Much to my surprise, there are some in this forum that actually believe that not even the sun shines on Mars.

As for the chemical composition of water. I will refer you to what Hambone 10 said.

"The fact is that SOME life grows in even the most extreme of conditions... some with few and sometimes none of the things that might be on your 'specific' list. To address comments by others, there are plants and animals that grow in complete darkness and certainly plants that don't rely on nutrients from soil (hydroponics). There are bacteria that grow in extreme temperatures. "

Something again I assumed was common knowledge.

There's not enough oxygen on Mars nor the organic material and nutrients required for plant life on Mars. If you want to discuss other alien life forms that could exist in those conditions then discuss it but it won't be a "plant".

Tell that to this guy


Chris Carberry, executive director of Explore Mars, a non-profit organization that aims to advance the goal of sending humans to Mars within the next two decades, welcomed Monday's NASA announcement. "We've been speculating about whether there is liquid water on Mars for some time, but now that it has been confirmed, it might have some significant implications," he told FoxNews.com. "First, it greatly enhances the chances of past or present life on Mars.

it also sticks a dagger in that omnipotent god thingy....

Not sure I'd agree, but that's a tangent that could take this conversation to a whole other level.

(09-30-2015 10:32 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 10:02 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 09:27 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-29-2015 09:57 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(09-29-2015 03:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why did you say,

"You can't be serious by asking this question. It takes more than the presence of water to sustain plant life."

Plant life and microbes are two very different things. You have to understand that before anything else. You also have to understand that a liquid water source on Mars would greatly aide in colonization, but the 'seeds of life' so to speak, would be carried to Mars from earth. We aren't going to go dig up Martian tomato seeds and replant them.

So then it can help in growing plant life?

Water? Help with growing plants?

If the Liberals arrive on Mars first, The first crop of plants grown probably will be Pot plants !

I sure hope so, I'd pay for some Martian weed.

(09-29-2015 05:44 PM)maximus Wrote:  What's the end game with all of the fascination with Mars.

Finding a way for humans to destroy 2 planets?

(09-30-2015 12:54 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 10:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 10:02 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Water? Help with growing plants?

No according to him.

No according to him it takes more than water to grow plants. Are you purposely being dense? My 6 year old daughter knows that.

What else do plants need? Be specific.

Here you go chief

Except for water, I think most- if not all- of the others can be replaced by other means.

(10-03-2015 05:47 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:54 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 10:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  No according to him.

No according to him it takes more than water to grow plants. Are you purposely being dense? My 6 year old daughter knows that.

What else do plants need? Be specific.

Here you go chief

Except for water, I think most- if not all- of the others can be replaced by other means.

All of which can be found on mars so tell m me again why plants can't grow.

(10-04-2015 10:47 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-03-2015 05:47 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:54 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-30-2015 12:29 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  No according to him it takes more than water to grow plants. Are you purposely being dense? My 6 year old daughter knows that.

What else do plants need? Be specific.

Here you go chief

Except for water, I think most- if not all- of the others can be replaced by other means.

All of which can be found on mars so tell m me again why plants can't grow.

holy terraform batman, the lack of atmosphere and lack of a magnetic generating molten core are myths as well...

the bile you spew isn't close to short of pathetic....you teach everybody nothing....

(10-03-2015 05:31 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-29-2015 05:44 PM)maximus Wrote:  What's the end game with all of the fascination with Mars.

Finding a way for humans to destroy 2 planets?

yep, that's it....

you should have stayed away....

and so should I....most of you guys are just silly stupid...

I feel like a blind biatch watching soaps on the 8th day of the week when I read most of what is posted on this board....