http://www.si.com/vault/1959/02/02/60420...age-secret

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mv...1251&hl=en

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=e6...5591&hl=en


The conference could have looked like this.

California
USC
UCLA
Washington
Stanford
Army
Navy
Air Force
Notre Dame in for all sports.
Penn.
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse

Other Independents could join like Miami Florida, Florida State, Duke, Georgia Tech, Memphis and Cincinnati.

Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona and Arizona State might either be in the WAC or MWC right now. San Jose State, Utah State, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico State and some others would be stuck in the WAC or MWC.

MWC:
West:
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Arizona
Arizona State
Hawaii
San Diego State
Fresno State

East:
Boise State
Montana
BYU
New Mexico
UNR
UNLV
Colorado State
Wyoming
TCU

WAC:
Idaho
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Utah State
Montana State
Fullerton State


The scandal that broke the PCC apart was pay for play that California, USC, UCLA and Washington did back before 1959. Idaho and Montana was peeved at them, and did not want nothing to do with them anymore at the time which they did not rejoin.

This Jet plain conference fell threw when the leaders at Pentagon stopped it. If this went through? The WAC would still be around, the PAC 12 would not been formed. TCU would not be in the Big 12. Houston would be in in the Big 12. IVY League would be down 1. ACC would not have like 4 to 6 teams. Big 10 would be without Penn State.

This could explain why the Service Academies are considered P5 schools. Cincinnati's academics is up there. I think Big 10 went by inclusion on academics. I expect that U. Mass. would be included as well along with Buffalo.

Oh, the Penn thing didn't really settle until the 70's, maybe the D1 split. I know the Big Ten was keen on them and Cornell (they're still pitching a tent on those guys), but Penn was definitely the odd one of the Ivies until then.

Funny how history may repeat again if the "American" can get Air Force and Army to join.

(09-24-2015 08:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Oh, the Penn thing didn't really settle until the 70's, maybe the D1 split. I know the Big Ten was keen on them and Cornell (they're still pitching a tent on those guys), but Penn was definitely the odd one of the Ivies until then.

It is also odd that Notre Dame would give up their Independent Status to join this League. Could this still happen right now? Some of the top PAC 12 schools break away from the little guys in the league to form a coast to coast conference and take Big 10, Big 12, AAC and ACC schools with them including some Independents?

California
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Arizona
Washington
Colorado
Texas
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Air Force
Kansas
Rice
Tulane
Utah
Northwestern
Indiana
IlliNois


Notre Dame
Ohio State
Penn State
Cornell
Penn
Syracuse
Maryland
Florida State
Miami Florida
Virginia Tech
Army
Navy
Duke
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
Pittsburgh
Michigan
Michigan State

Left out:
Washington State
Oregon State
Arizona State
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU
Kansas State
Texas Tech
Purdue
Boston College
Virginia
Wake Forest
Rutgers
Clemson
Louisville
Iowa State
West Virginia
NC State

SEC could piack up some of the left overs to expand their tv network with Clemson, NC State, Virginia, west Virginia,.

ACC could pick up many AAC, MAC and C-USA to get back up to their numbers. PAC 12 could pick up the rest of the Big 12 and MWC to get back up which could make 4 major super conferences. We don't know how far they wanted to go back in 1959, but it seems to be the same ideas as today to go Super Nova on conferences.

David, you continue to give new meaning to the term "fantasy league".

Quote:It is also odd that Notre Dame would give up their Independent Status to join this League.

Not in the 50's was it that odd. They were a possible candidate to fill Chicago's absence in the Big Ten, the spot that went to Michigan State. Them, Nebraska, Pitt, and Marquette, if I'm not mistaken. That was the late 40's.

And just look at who's on the schedule there with that conference. Penn State, Pittsburgh (the part of PA that was oh so heavily Catholic when steel and coal were still players in the region, a region Notre Dame feasted upon), USC, and the Service Academies. Maybe Michigan State and Purdue aren't there (and Stanford wouldn't be a fixture until the 80's), but the others were.

This conference comes up from time to time on the Penn State boards whenever the crazies think the Big Ten are screwing them. Then, they wonder why they just don't join the PAC given their volleyball teams' reputation.

(09-24-2015 08:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Oh, the Penn thing didn't really settle until the 70's, maybe the D1 split. I know the Big Ten was keen on them and Cornell (they're still pitching a tent on those guys), but Penn was definitely the odd one of the Ivies until then.

No. That would be Brown. Those earthy trapezoid-loving curmudgeons were actually originally left out of the Ivy League.

(09-24-2015 08:54 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 08:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Oh, the Penn thing didn't really settle until the 70's, maybe the D1 split. I know the Big Ten was keen on them and Cornell (they're still pitching a tent on those guys), but Penn was definitely the odd one of the Ivies until then.

No. That would be Brown. Those earthy trapezoid-loving curmudgeons were actually originally left out of the Ivy League.

I meant that as, athletically, Penn had one of the most competitive and comprehensive departments of the group, but, yeah, Brown's a weirdo.

OT: does anyone think Army might angle a way back to a conversation about that conference (Ivy)? I know their AD seems to think USMA's already one of the chosen, but given the Ivy attempt at being one of the countable FCS lot for FBS games...maybe's there's something for both sides if they ran together in the same conference?

It was as close to happening as New York is in distance from Sydney or Perth down under.

(09-24-2015 07:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.si.com/vault/1959/02/02/60420...age-secret

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mv...1251&hl=en

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=e6...5591&hl=en


The conference could have looked like this.

California
USC
UCLA
Washington
Stanford
Army
Navy
Air Force
Notre Dame in for all sports.
Penn.
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse

Other Independents could join like Miami Florida, Florida State, Duke, Georgia Tech, Memphis and Cincinnati.

Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona and Arizona State might either be in the WAC or MWC right now. San Jose State, Utah State, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico State and some others would be stuck in the WAC or MWC.

MWC:
West:
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Arizona
Arizona State
Hawaii
San Diego State
Fresno State

East:
Boise State
Montana
BYU
New Mexico
UNR
UNLV
Colorado State
Wyoming
TCU

WAC:
Idaho
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Utah State
Montana State
Fullerton State


The scandal that broke the PCC apart was pay for play that California, USC, UCLA and Washington did back before 1959. Idaho and Montana was peeved at them, and did not want nothing to do with them anymore at the time which they did not rejoin.

This Jet plain conference fell threw when the leaders at Pentagon stopped it. If this went through? The WAC would still be around, the PAC 12 would not been formed. TCU would not be in the Big 12. Houston would be in in the Big 12. IVY League would be down 1. ACC would not have like 4 to 6 teams. Big 10 would be without Penn State.

This could explain why the Service Academies are considered P5 schools. Cincinnati's academics is up there. I think Big 10 went by inclusion on academics. I expect that U. Mass. would be included as well along with Buffalo.

In 1959 Duke was a member of the ACC, as was South Carolina. Georgia Tech was also still in the SEC, as was Tulane. I don't see that either of them would have left, especially since Tech could've used a potential move as leverage to force Bama to back off the 140 scholarship issue that eventually led GT to split in 1964.

' Wrote:Dame would give up their Independent Status to join this League.

I don't know if independence was as big a deal to ND back then since there were plenty of independent teams. I think that became more valuable to them as they became one of the last holdouts and the last major independent for most of the last 25 years. Just my opinion though.

(09-24-2015 10:37 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

' Wrote:Dame would give up their Independent Status to join this League.

I don't know if independence was as big a deal to ND back then since there were plenty of independent teams. I think that became more valuable to them as they became one of the last holdouts and the last major independent for most of the last 25 years. Just my opinion though.

I would tend to agree, but Terry would know more than we would. Plus in that conference they'd get their USC, Navy, Army (was a regular fixture for them still) and Pitt games in no problem.

There was also the Magnolia League proposal: Duke, Rice, Vandy, Tulane, SMU and I believe some combination of Wake, Baylor and TCU were all considered as well.

(09-24-2015 11:27 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 10:37 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

' Wrote:Dame would give up their Independent Status to join this League.

I don't know if independence was as big a deal to ND back then since there were plenty of independent teams. I think that became more valuable to them as they became one of the last holdouts and the last major independent for most of the last 25 years. Just my opinion though.

I would tend to agree, but Terry would know more than we would. Plus in that conference they'd get their USC, Navy, Army (was a regular fixture for them still) and Pitt games in no problem.

There was also the Magnolia League proposal: Duke, Rice, Vandy, Tulane, SMU and I believe some combination of Wake, Baylor and TCU were all considered as well.

Notre Dame would be happy with the trifecta of the service academies. Could this league lure some of the Big 10 to join them?

I think this article back then was trying to form a conference that is like an NFL type to get viewers and people to attend games.

If they do something like this today? Some of the schools in the major conferences would not get in like Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Iowa, Iowa State, Oregon, Oregon State, Alabama, Arkansas, Ole Miss., Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, West Virginia and Clemson.

Schools in, Washington (Seattle), California, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, New Mexico, Texas, TCU, SMU, Houston, Oklahoma, Missouri, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Rice, Notre Dame, Tulane, Memphis, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Syracuse, San Diego State, UNLV, UNR, Rutgers, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Army, Navy, Air Force, Maryland, Boston College, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Florida, Florida State, Miami Florida, Virginia, Virginia Tech and LSU.

Others could be San Diego State, Fresno State, Sacramento State, Portland State, Boise State, Utah State, Montana, North Dakota State, Colorado State-Pueblo, UTEP, UTSA, Angelo State, West Texas A&M, Tulsa, Central Oklahoma, Wichita State, NW Missouri State, Missouri State, UALR, Northern Illinois, Ball State, Indianapolis, Dayton, Cleveland State, Chattanooga, Southern Miss, Jackson State, UAB, Alabama State, Georgia Southern, UCF, USF, Old Dominion, Georgetown, Stony Brook, Delaware, Temple, Villanova, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, U. Conn. and some others.

What they wanted to do was to combat the NFL at the time by bringing all the best schools together.