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2nd to last in NCHC media poll
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DudeReally Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-24-2015 08:24 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 04:28 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I recall we destroyed the other leagues we played last year and it was only the NCHC ----- with pretty much 5-6 teams in it making the 16 teams that go to the to National Tournament ----- where we struggled.

Your facts are a little off, but basically your points support what I am saying. The league is packed full of powerful hockey programs.

Interestingly, until last year though the nchc produced far fewer NCAA tournament bids than most expected. I agree that the nchc will always get more tourney bids than the wcha, who will likely only get about two each season. But I do believe that it would be easier most years to make the NCAA tournament in the wcha than in the nchc. And unfortunately, unless we put together consistent good seasons we risk becoming a doormat in a great league, which kills the momentum of a program, lessens interest, hurts recruiting, and makes brovol look clairvoyant. I think, on the other hand, we would be consistently competitive in the wcha, and would effectively be the big man on campus in that league; even if it wasn't as sexy at the nchc. .....but I digress.

I agree with Brovol. This league is going to continue to be a struggle for WMU. If you can't win, you can't pick up the points to move up in the rankings to get you into the tournament.

Time will tell on recruits and their development. The tension of long summers in Kzoo and no time off remains, and the kids burning out during the season.
09-25-2015 10:06 AM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
Love the "aim low" mentality.
09-25-2015 10:44 AM
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Bronco nut Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 10:06 AM)DudeReally Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 08:24 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 04:28 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I recall we destroyed the other leagues we played last year and it was only the NCHC ----- with pretty much 5-6 teams in it making the 16 teams that go to the to National Tournament ----- where we struggled.

Your facts are a little off, but basically your points support what I am saying. The league is packed full of powerful hockey programs.

Interestingly, until last year though the nchc produced far fewer NCAA tournament bids than most expected. I agree that the nchc will always get more tourney bids than the wcha, who will likely only get about two each season. But I do believe that it would be easier most years to make the NCAA tournament in the wcha than in the nchc. And unfortunately, unless we put together consistent good seasons we risk becoming a doormat in a great league, which kills the momentum of a program, lessens interest, hurts recruiting, and makes brovol look clairvoyant. I think, on the other hand, we would be consistently competitive in the wcha, and would effectively be the big man on campus in that league; even if it wasn't as sexy at the nchc. .....but I digress.

I agree with Brovol. This league is going to continue to be a struggle for WMU. If you can't win, you can't pick up the points to move up in the rankings to get you into the tournament.

Time will tell on recruits and their development. The tension of long summers in Kzoo and no time off remains, and the kids burning out during the season.

Dude,you are correct about the long summer with no time off,players have already been talking this year about always being tired from the never ending training.03-banghead
09-25-2015 12:22 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 10:44 AM)rtletterman Wrote:  Love the "aim low" mentality.

Why the constant need to distort what others are saying?

My aim for WMU hockey is to build and maintain a program which competes successfully at the highest level every year, even while accepting that from time to time there will be years where we don't make the NCAA Tourney, but always with the realistic expectation that we will be one of the top few schools challenging for a league title, and realistically optimistic at earning an NCAA bid. Schools like most currently in the NCHC, like Denver, North Dakota and others, but also including Michigan, Boston U, Boston College, and several others.

These types of programs don't necessarily win national championships because they are so phenomenal in any given year, but rather because they get into the tournament so frequently, and give themselves many opportunities based on the consistent excellence with the programs. Indeed, it seems that those schools win titles more often when they just squeak into the tournament and have low expectations, than when they are the big favorite.

Winning consistently is about the program. Recruiting is generally about the program, and good top shelf recruits keep a program going good. Attendance at home games, particularly in a town with other things to do, is about winning. Without consistent winning the rink wont stay full. Without winning, and without full rinks, its hard to get the top shelf recruits.

I know I wont convert anyone today, but I still disagree that fans will fill Lawson because we are in such a prestigious league, or because we are playing great programs like Duluth, North Dakota, or Denver. People come when we win lots of games; and most folks don't give two $hit$ who we are winning them against. True, people like to see some schools at Lawson, like Mich, Mich State, and Notre Dame, but those schools aren't in the NCHC.

The key is winning, and winning consistently. And its way easier winning consistently in the WCHA, against schools who we have similar or better budgets, arenas, and fan bases, than against so many of the top pure hockey programs in the country.

And before someone says something about getting better Pairwise points playing in the NCHC, you may have a point, but it is a small point. The reality is that there is a lot of parity in college hockey and the distinction in points is not nearly as significant than many here would like to think.

Schools in the WCHA are making the NCAA, and having real good seasons. Even beating NCHC schools from time to time. It is not a joke of a league, but WMU would certainly be able to maintain a constantly quality program in the WCHA.

I'm not sure what your "aim" is, but mine is far from low. ......But well within the realm of possible.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 02:04 PM by brovol.)
09-25-2015 01:52 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
You love what Fleck does and says about wanting to win a national championship, beating the best etc, but then you turn around and should lower our caliber of conference affiliation because "it's not possible"

Love the juxtaposition. Your hot air, and unlike those loser mid Michigan public defenders, I won't bow and it seems to irritate you.

Good.
09-25-2015 03:43 PM
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texasbronco1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
These online pre-season polls aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on.
09-25-2015 03:50 PM
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rtletterman Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 03:50 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  These online pre-season polls aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on.

Especially now in the NCHC. That never stops Brovol from trying to reinforce his snap judgement that we should have gone WCHA.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 03:58 PM by rtletterman.)
09-25-2015 03:57 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 03:43 PM)rtletterman Wrote:  You love what Fleck does and says about wanting to win a national championship, beating the best etc, but then you turn around and should lower our caliber of conference affiliation because "it's not possible"

Love the juxtaposition. Your hot air, and unlike those loser mid Michigan public defenders, I won't bow and it seems to irritate you.

Good.

What does fleck have to do with this hockey issue?

When did I say anything like "its not possible"? Indeed, I said exactly the opposite. I said it is more than possible. WCHA teams are getting the chance to compete for national championship every year. And we could too. Shoot, ferris almost won it all a couple years ago.

And while I admit I am impressed and surprised that you have the ability to spell juxtaposition, I do need to remind you to stop using words when you don't know what they mean. Even the midmichigan public defenders know that.

Actually both the few " public defenders" (as you put it) that I deal with, and the silk stocking lawyers (who, believe it or not, regularly handle cases in the courts where I preside) feel no inclination to bow, or even offer deference beyond that which they would offer anyone else out of respect. In fact I have been described by a few as the most down to earth judge they have had cases with, and I consider that one of the nicest things someone could say. So worry not about irritating me. Worry more about clearing the confusion in your head. I'm concerned about you buddy.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 05:09 PM by brovol.)
09-25-2015 05:07 PM
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Bronco nut Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
I hate to say it but this coaching staff over works the team and are dead tired way to early in the season.This team does more "voluntary work" than any D1 program.Not much to say about it,it won't change under this coaching staff.
09-25-2015 07:16 PM
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Ubish Offline
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Post: #30
Re: RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 07:16 PM)Bronco nut Wrote:  not much to say about it,it won't change under this coaching staff.

Could have fooled me! You say something about it whenever you can, even when it has nothing to do with the thread.
09-26-2015 07:25 AM
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JSB3 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-25-2015 05:07 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(09-25-2015 03:43 PM)rtletterman Wrote:  You love what Fleck does and says about wanting to win a national championship, beating the best etc, but then you turn around and should lower our caliber of conference affiliation because "it's not possible"

Love the juxtaposition. Your hot air, and unlike those loser mid Michigan public defenders, I won't bow and it seems to irritate you.

Good.

What does fleck have to do with this hockey issue?

When did I say anything like "its not possible"? Indeed, I said exactly the opposite. I said it is more than possible. WCHA teams are getting the chance to compete for national championship every year. And we could too. Shoot, ferris almost won it all a couple years ago.

And while I admit I am impressed and surprised that you have the ability to spell juxtaposition, I do need to remind you to stop using words when you don't know what they mean. Even the midmichigan public defenders know that.

Actually both the few " public defenders" (as you put it) that I deal with, and the silk stocking lawyers (who, believe it or not, regularly handle cases in the courts where I preside) feel no inclination to bow, or even offer deference beyond that which they would offer anyone else out of respect. In fact I have been described by a few as the most down to earth judge they have had cases with, and I consider that one of the nicest things someone could say. So worry not about irritating me. Worry more about clearing the confusion in your head. I'm concerned about you buddy.

I think the fact that we're in this league is the reason we are recruiting great talent. I feel like you lack faith in our program. We have a bad ass coach and great school. We are currently recruiting too tier talent. I feel like we will be in the top 3 in no more than 3 years, and make a great improvement this year. We currently have a recruit that is listed as a 2017 TOP draft prospect, no other NCHC school can claim that. The WCHA is the backwash of the CCHA and WCHA. We should be fortunate to be in this great league, and recruiting great talent because of it.
09-26-2015 02:22 PM
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Bronco nut Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-26-2015 07:25 AM)Ubish Wrote:  
(09-25-2015 07:16 PM)Bronco nut Wrote:  not much to say about it,it won't change under this coaching staff.

Could have fooled me! You say something about it whenever you can, even when it has nothing to do with the thread.

ubish..if you look I was commenting on what someone else had stated.
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09-26-2015 03:33 PM
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BroncoFever Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-24-2015 08:24 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 04:28 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I recall we destroyed the other leagues we played last year and it was only the NCHC ----- with pretty much 5-6 teams in it making the 16 teams that go to the to National Tournament ----- where we struggled.

And unfortunately, unless we put together consistent good seasons we risk becoming a doormat in a great league, which kills the momentum of a program, lessens interest, hurts recruiting, and makes brovol look clairvoyant.

WMU a doormat in the NCHC? You do realize in the first season of the NCHC, the Broncos finished the regular season tied for fourth place, in the conference tournament on the road swept UMD and was just one injury away from winning the conference tournament and making a NCAA appearance?

Brovol gone off his alzheimer's meds....
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 11:38 AM by BroncoFever.)
09-28-2015 10:44 AM
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BroncoFever Offline
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Post: #34
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
Like it or not, there is and will be for a very long time, a OLD WCHA bias favoring 6 of the 8 NCHC teams, which incompasses probably 90% of the writers who do these pre-season rankings.

Then again, WMU can change that perception....
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 11:04 AM by BroncoFever.)
09-28-2015 10:48 AM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #35
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-28-2015 10:44 AM)BroncoFever Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 08:24 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(09-24-2015 04:28 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I recall we destroyed the other leagues we played last year and it was only the NCHC ----- with pretty much 5-6 teams in it making the 16 teams that go to the to National Tournament ----- where we struggled.

And unfortunately, unless we put together consistent good seasons we risk becoming a doormat in a great league, which kills the momentum of a program, lessens interest, hurts recruiting, and makes brovol look clairvoyant.

WMU a doormat in the NCHC? You do realize in the first season of the NCHC, the Broncos finished the regular season tied for fourth place, in the conference tournament on the road swept UMD and was just one injury away from winning the conference tournament and making a NCAA appearance?

Brovol gone off his alzheimer's meds....

Lol. You are a riot fever. OK, you are right, we have done great in nchc. We should all hope we have several more years just like the last two. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

....but I am glad you reminded me about my Alzheimer's meds. I almost forgot again.
09-28-2015 05:04 PM
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Ubish Offline
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Post: #36
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
this year will go a long way in telling us if WMU made the right decision to join the NCHC. Big year for Murray and the team.
09-28-2015 05:37 PM
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BroncoFever Offline
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Post: #37
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-28-2015 05:37 PM)Ubish Wrote:  this year will go a long way in telling us if WMU made the right decision to join the NCHC. Big year for Murray and the team.

I'd give it another 3-5 years before making that decision.

Recruiting is often 3-4 years out and the Murray recruits are just now starting to step onto the campus. Murray and Company will need 3-5 years of exposer with in the NCHC in order for WMU to start reaping the recruiting benifits of thier association/affliaction with the NCHC.

Not that I don't like Lawson, I only wish Murray had new faculities to help lure some of these recruits
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 07:51 PM by BroncoFever.)
09-28-2015 07:46 PM
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JerrySeymoursParoleOfficer Offline
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Post: #38
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
You have to give it time... in particular... you have to give Ben Barr some time. We're in Murray's 5th year so you're just now seeing the players come him that he has truly been involved in recruiting. In hockey you are recruiting 3-4 years out and when he got here in 11-12 that top talent through the last few years was already spoken for. Not to mention I think Rob Facca brought in a lot of duds.

Barr is going to be the key here. His job as the main recruiter at Union and Providence speaks for itself.

I hate to say we have to wait... but we kind of have to wait.

I think we will be vastly improved this year. Hafner was hurt a lot last year and Slubowski was never the same after his sophomore year. We lost a lot of close games due to lack of scoring and goaltending brain farts at times. I don't see that happening this season. As much as I like Hafner, I think Olson takes the reigns a few weeks into the season and then we are set.

Schueneman and the Fin have a lot of fire power from the blue line. That Iacopelli kid does nothing but score goals. If that can translate then we will be a 3-5 team this season.

Also look out for Colt Conrad. He lit it up at Shattucks. He's only 18... so it may take some time but that kid is gonna be special.
09-29-2015 08:28 AM
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DudeReally Offline
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Post: #39
RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
[quote='JerrySeymoursParoleOfficer' pid='12439231' dateline='1443533328']


"I think we will be vastly improved this year. Hafner was hurt a lot last year and Slubowski was never the same after his sophomore year. We lost a lot of close games due to lack of scoring and goaltending brain farts at times. I don't see that happening this season. As much as I like Hafner, I think Olson takes the reigns a few weeks into the season and then we are set."

Frank was not the same after the mind games played on him by Murray. Lose a game you're out. How do you go from being a top goalie in the NCAA to what we saw at the end? Mind games. Goaltending is 80% mental.

Yes, Hafner was hurt most of last season, but Count on Olson taking over quick. He promised Olson the starting job just to get him to the commit, and Hafner is a senior. Next year, Blacker will push Olson for the 1 spot and by seasons end Blacker will be the starter. It's how Murray does business with his goalies.
09-29-2015 10:08 AM
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BroncoFever Offline
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RE: 2nd to last in NCHC media poll
(09-29-2015 10:08 AM)DudeReally Wrote:  [quote='JerrySeymoursParoleOfficer' pid='12439231' dateline='1443533328']


"I think we will be vastly improved this year. Hafner was hurt a lot last year and Slubowski was never the same after his sophomore year. We lost a lot of close games due to lack of scoring and goaltending brain farts at times. I don't see that happening this season. As much as I like Hafner, I think Olson takes the reigns a few weeks into the season and then we are set."

Frank was not the same after the mind games played on him by Murray. Lose a game you're out. How do you go from being a top goalie in the NCAA to what we saw at the end? Mind games. Goaltending is 80% mental.

Yes, Hafner was hurt most of last season, but Count on Olson taking over quick. He promised Olson the starting job just to get him to the commit, and Hafner is a senior. Next year, Blacker will push Olson for the 1 spot and by seasons end Blacker will be the starter. It's how Murray does business with his goalies.

Dont the goalies have to compete for the job, like all the other players?? Isn't this game mental for all the players? Frank had more than his share of opportunites to "own" his position the last two years, yet was very inconsistent and "he" opened the door for Hafner

2013/14 season from the GLI out, Hafner was the better/more consistent goalie, until he got hurt in the conference tournament. Hafner gave the team thier best chance to win when he was in net and Murray saw this

2014/15 season neither goalie was consistent enough to own the spot. I'm sure Hafners injury in Jan was part of this reason. It's very hard to be at the top of a goalies game while playing with that injury.

Happy to hear that during off season Hafner's surgery was succesful and I hope he had a great off season in the weight room. Let's hope he can get back to the playing level he was at during the end of the 2013/14 season.

Olson is a very good goalie and not your typical freshman (technically, he's not) . Olson could very well challenge Hafner, but I'd think it's Hafner's spot to lose.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2015 11:50 AM by BroncoFever.)
09-29-2015 10:45 AM
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