(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I have a feeling that what Wofford and VMI are saying is pretty in tune with what the Southern Conference wants.

I know some JMU fans have been angry with the lack of move to the FBS and reportedly turning down a Sun Belt offer (thanks by the way) but I think this letter may finally get the pitchforks and torches out.

(09-23-2015 12:04 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  I know some JMU fans have been angry with the lack of move to the FBS and reportedly turning down a Sun Belt offer (thanks by the way) but I think this letter may finally get the pitchforks and torches out.

This will literally kill JMU athletics. Not just football but basketball.

They're going to have the nicest stadium and basketball arena in the NEC or the Patriot by the time Alger is done with them. CAA for life? Sadly for them, I think they can't even count on that.

JMU fans have been working under the assumption that their administration was incompetent. With this it is starting to look like their administration is actively hostile to athletics.

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

VERY interesting thread.I see the good points made by Eagle22,however,a distinct recruiting advantage by those offering COA(even if basketball only) will lead to some shuffling IMHO.

This is a major reason CCU made the move when it was presented to us

I heard our President say on a few occasions "if I'm going to pay FCOA I'm going to do it at the next level not chase Liberty in the Big South with it"

(09-23-2015 10:58 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 08:33 AM)southern edumacation Wrote:  http://www.elonpendulum.com/article/2015...nce-letter

JMU and Delaware are two of the non schools signing some letter saying they will not provide cost of attendance.

Not only does that end the speculation regarding their football prospects for FBS....

It seriously harms their competitiveness in FCS

and

harms their D1 Basketball program and their conference as well.

--
I think that the COA issue is going to cause a split in D1.

I don't see that. Most FCS schools cannot afford full cost of attendance for all sports without additional revenue. At the FBS level schools have access to college football playoff revenue, money games and TV revenue (the exception being the Sun Belt).

There is minimal revenue at the FCS level. If a school is in a good basketball conference, then it makes sense. Missouri State is paying COA for men's and women's basketball, but not for FCS football. Makes perfect sense.

I have read that only Liberty, North Dakota State and North Dakota are offering the full cost of attendance for all sports at the FCS level. If that remains true, then JMU will not be at a competitive disadvantage in FCS football.

FCS is such a hodge podge of schools anyway. Some offer scholarships some don't. Making the schools who play D1 basketball move their D3 football programs to FCS was the first mistake. You should have to offer a minimum of scholarships to play FSC football. Really a confusing mess.

(09-23-2015 11:16 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  That sounds like a recipe for FCS independence for us, arkstfan. I hope you are wrong.

I would think it means a chance to climb the FCS conference food chain.

(09-23-2015 12:46 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

If they can get two more CAA schools on board they have continuity of membership to split and have autobids in basketball, only need one more for the other sports.

(09-23-2015 04:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 12:46 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

If they can get two more CAA schools on board they have continuity of membership to split and have autobids in basketball, only need one more for the other sports.

Interesting.

Or maybe two SoCon schools, despite the $1M buyout I mentioned. Either way, Iamarino isn't probably losing sleep about it ... the SoCon is now more like the NEC he left.

I could see Mercer and Chattanooga with interest from a basketball perspective, and both could see this FCOA development putting a lid on their aspirations. That said, the SoCon did send out a media release on 9/21/2015 approving a policy to permit stipends effective in the 2016-2017 academic year. So maybe a split develops there.



Mercer hasn't been in the SoCon long enough to tamp down real roots, while we both know Chattanooga has at least in the past been curious enough to peek at other opportunities.

(09-23-2015 09:51 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yeah, how can you have a supposed $44 million budget and not be willing to pay COA? Football aside, that could devastate your Olympic sports since you compete with FBS programs for those athletes. In football, offering COA for an FCS school that can afford it is the way to really set yourself apart and gain a huge recruiting advantage.

VA has some kind of rules where everything associated with Athletics must be included in the budget. The band is included and JMU has a large band which Im sure cost millions to maintain.

Sure someone on here can explain better than me and has more knowledge.

(09-23-2015 09:49 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  VA has some kind of rules where everything associated with Athletics must be included in the budget. The band is included and JMU has a large band which Im sure cost millions to maintain.

Sure someone on here can explain better than me and has more knowledge.

The way ONE (I capitalize to stress it) poster framed it was that it also covered facility improvement (or debt relief on it), and that was the main component.

Again, it was just that one guy, but the way he made it seem if you take that out, bam... Their budget still largely surpassed everyone else's budget in this conference.

It didn't pass the sniff test, but at the same time, I never delved into their budgets.

(09-23-2015 04:52 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 04:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 12:46 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

If they can get two more CAA schools on board they have continuity of membership to split and have autobids in basketball, only need one more for the other sports.

Interesting.

Or maybe two SoCon schools, despite the $1M buyout I mentioned. Either way, Iamarino isn't probably losing sleep about it ... the SoCon is now more like the NEC he left.

I could see Mercer and Chattanooga with interest from a basketball perspective, and both could see this FCOA development putting a lid on their aspirations. That said, the SoCon did send out a media release on 9/21/2015 approving a policy to permit stipends effective in the 2016-2017 academic year. So maybe a split develops there.

“The Council was mindful of respecting institutional authority,” said Commissioner John Iamarino. “This is permissive legislation, not mandatory, and provides flexibility for institutions to choose which sports and which individuals they might want to consider, should they choose to award these stipends. Our members will continue to use NCAA-distributed dollars, primarily through the Student Assistance Fund, to address the ongoing needs of their student-athletes.”

Mercer hasn't been in the SoCon long enough to tamp down real roots, while we both know Chattanooga has at least in the past been curious enough to peek at other opportunities.

I imagine this is to allow those schools who want to provide stipends for basketball to do it. I can't see many, if any, of the SoCon schools wanting to provide cost of attendance for all sports. There was an article that came out shortly after the NCAA assistance fund dollars were announced and the Citadel's AD was thankful that they could use it for additional / supplemental food. His comments came off as they can't afford to feed their athletes well enough and I just thought it was a little strange. I know they are a small school but get funded well as compared to other state schools and also have a large out of state enrollment. They also do well with fundraising.

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

COA? They don't need to pay no stinkin' COA. I'm in full agreement with Eagle 22. IMO, although the conference gave their "permission" to provide COA, this is exactly what SoCon boss Iamarino wants. I've been involved with the Small Con since the early 80's and it's a crying shame to see the league become a playground for the rich and private. As stated UTC is looking for a way out and you have to think Western Carolina is also exploring their options. The Big South would be an upgrade for both of them at this point.

They should go to the OVC, UTC had the opportunity 10-15 years ago and turned them down, hindsight bad decision.

(09-23-2015 04:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 12:46 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

If they can get two more CAA schools on board they have continuity of membership to split and have autobids in basketball, only need one more for the other sports.

I had SoCon on the brain w/ my response earlier, but after re-reading this I am catching what you said regarding the autobid & the CAA.

Most of the SoCon is probably in agreement with Wofford and VMI, only they are smart enough to not paint themselves into a corner, yet.

I understand your original comment better now. There is enough critical mass in the SoCon that falls in line with the Wofford and VMI position though. IMO, there will be few schools in the league that seriously consider offering FCOA, even if limited to basketball.

(09-24-2015 08:20 AM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 04:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 12:46 PM)Eagle22 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:14 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I'm commissioner of the CAA, American East or Southern, that letter is an alarm bell.

You have a group of members staking out a position that COA is not compatible with their vision of intercollegiate athletics and you've got other members saying it is.

Looks to me that nine schools have thrown the gauntlet down to their conference and said join us or else.

Figure before the year out there is either a new conference or the leagues realign around having or not having COA.

I doubt that Iamarino (SoCon Commissioner) is quaking in his boots one iota about any defections. The biggest reason is that they recently raised exit fees to $1 million bucks. IMO, those same schools that aren't interested in FCOA aren't going to pony up that kind of money to join a new league without immediate access to NCAA post season play.

Not meant to scoff at your point though. It is a clear eye-opener for some.

It is for exactly this type of outcome that I fully committed to the idea of Georgia Southern leaving the Southern Conference. When Wofford joined the SoCon in 1997 after Marshall's exit, within the first few years of membership they tried to convince the rest of the league to lower the scholarship limits. Once Marshall left and the league moved to add in Wofford and Samford (instead of Jacksonville State), I knew it was time to start looking at other opportunities.

The public school / private school dichotomy was more poisionous than not, when trying to build alignments which benefitted the conference. The remaining public schools in the SoCon don't have the funding for FCOA and the private schools already have such high expenses in funding scholarships that most do not have the stomach to cover more, IMO.

As far as realignment goes in the FCS/I-AA ranks, how would you see that justification occur ? Most of those leagues already are geographically condensed. It's not like there is college football playoff money or even slight TV money to supplement any changes to underwrite additional expenses that would arise with expansion of a league's footprint.

If they can get two more CAA schools on board they have continuity of membership to split and have autobids in basketball, only need one more for the other sports.

I had SoCon on the brain w/ my response earlier, but after re-reading this I am catching what you said regarding the autobid & the CAA.

Most of the SoCon is probably in agreement with Wofford and VMI, only they are smart enough to not paint themselves into a corner, yet.

I understand your original comment better now. There is enough critical mass in the SoCon that falls in line with the Wofford and VMI position though. IMO, there will be few schools in the league that seriously consider offering FCOA, even if limited to basketball.

Man, I hope new cost containment conferences don't pop up. It's not like we really need any more conferences at this point. I'm sure the big conferences don't want any more auto bids, particularly for the basketball tournament, especially for those schools that seemingly want to pinch pennies with their programs.

(09-23-2015 09:49 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:51 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yeah, how can you have a supposed $44 million budget and not be willing to pay COA? Football aside, that could devastate your Olympic sports since you compete with FBS programs for those athletes. In football, offering COA for an FCS school that can afford it is the way to really set yourself apart and gain a huge recruiting advantage.

VA has some kind of rules where everything associated with Athletics must be included in the budget. The band is included and JMU has a large band which Im sure cost millions to maintain.

Sure someone on here can explain better than me and has more knowledge.

Yeah, I know. I have always maintained that budget numbers are useless because there are no standards for reporting. Some tie everything to the athletics budget to puff it up while others like Arkansas State have to do the opposite because of the scrutiny we receive if it appears we are spending too much on athletics in a school not located in Fayetteville.