(09-23-2015 09:55 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:25 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:06 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  I think people can manage to carve out a few hours a few times a year if they give the slightest of a damn. The problem is they don't.

Again, I don't understand the problem y'all are having when y'all already KNOW the state of North Carolina has a deep-rooted "basketball-first" culture.

Now, I think I'm really gonna set Lou_C off..

Drinking craft beer and getting lit with friends vs.
vs Watching not-top-notch football at Kenan (vs Delaware)

That's a no-brainer. Downtown Raleigh it is!

Don't worry though, while the state of North Carolina is a deep-rooted "basketball-first" type of place, NC State will provide some quality football entertainment for you.

LOL, in North Carolina drinking craft beer and getting lit with friend and going to a football game gets second billing to drinking craft beer and getting lit with friends and not having to go to a football game. That about sums it up.

You've obviously never been to our tailgate at Wake, where craft beer reigns supreme before & after the game. While we may call it "tailgate season" rather than "football season", our butts are still in the seats at Groves Stadium at BB&T Field. When you can have an actual attendance of 27,126 (86.11% of capacity) for a Thursday night game vs Elon (as opposed to those dubious round attendance figures quoted by UNC-Cheat that are still below 68% capacity), I think you can say Wake fans support football.

(09-23-2015 09:13 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:00 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  It is what it is. All we ask FSU and Clemson to do is be the football flagships, and don't screw ---- up.

No, be complete at least...all you do is ask two schools to be the football flagship, don't screw up, while 12 other schools take the exact same cut for nothing.

Yep, makes sense. We're counting on you guys to carry the load, but we wouldn't dare give you the resources you need to do it.

Exactly.

If just 1-2 schools have to carry all 14.....give them the $$$$ to do it.


EVEN if you do, no school competes at the highest level every year. A REAL conference needs 4-6 schools competing at the highest levels so you always have somebody in the race.

The ACC is just setup like a one legged stool....it just won't last.

(09-23-2015 09:04 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 08:16 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Maybe it's just Me but I think that Uniforms can play a key role in getting new and more fans on board. I like the UNC light blue but it just doesn't "POP" on the football field. The Navy Blue color is a much stronger look as well as say a Black and Blue jersey would. I know it's tradition but some change could be just enough to fire up the fanbase. No You don't have to pull a Maryland type uniform to do it.

Are you advocating the uniform pictured? I prefer what they wear this year.

UNC could easily be 3-0. That's what matters to me. Coastal division on high alert!

This years is an improvement over last years Sweaty Belly & Underarm look !



I like the Black '15 one

(09-23-2015 10:20 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:04 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:02 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:54 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(09-22-2015 09:54 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You guys don't see the dynamic that exists in the triangle area of NC where UNC, Duke, and NC State are all within a half an hour of each other. 3 power 5 teams within a 30 minute radius is ridiculous and I don't think exists anywhere else in the country. Two Saturdays ago all 3 teams had home football games at EXACTLY the same time. How stupid is that? UNC seats 63k for football. NC State is about 57k. Duke is about 33k. So you're talking about almost 150k capacity for football in the same area of the state.

Second, UNC's parking situation is atrocious. The stadium is in the middle of campus and shares a parking lot with the hospital. However, there have been times in the past where fans showed up. Right now empty seats have a lot to do with the product on the field. I firmly believe if this team starts winning again, then the attendance will be better.

What a pathetic excuse.

In a state of 10 million people, in which almost everybody (Asheville, Charlotte, Triad, eastern NC) lives less than 4 hours from the triangle.

Then tell me somewhere else this exists. 3 FBS programs 30 mins apart. 150k capacity for football seating.

120k capacity
TCU-SMU-UNT

Dallas-Forth Worth area is much larger than the triangle area of NC.

Second, all 3 triangle schools play in major conferences

Three, that's still a 30-40k difference in attendance capacity.

Then maybe it's time for someone in the "triangle" to pull their football program out of the ACC since it is to much for the area? Maybe replace them with ECU as a football only member?

If FSU and Clemson had their way this would be the New ACC (bold basketball flagships}:

Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Let's make this clear. We are not here for the money. We got by without it for decades. You don't miss the big conference welfare check if you have never had one. We are not here to ride anyone's coat tails. We'll stand on our own or get our asses kicked.

Money isn't a problem in Louisville. Facilities isn't a problem. We work to compete to win in every sport not just football or basketball.

If a city school in one of the Nation's poorest commonwealths can compete, there's no excuse for land grant institutions.

Obviously some have never had to work hard for anything and are used to having everything given to them. Silver spoon mentality. I would expect nothing less from the leaders of some of the liberal institutions....
CJ

(09-23-2015 10:29 AM)nole Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:13 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:00 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  It is what it is. All we ask FSU and Clemson to do is be the football flagships, and don't screw ---- up.

No, be complete at least...all you do is ask two schools to be the football flagship, don't screw up, while 12 other schools take the exact same cut for nothing.

Yep, makes sense. We're counting on you guys to carry the load, but we wouldn't dare give you the resources you need to do it.

Exactly.

If just 1-2 schools have to carry all 14.....give them the $$$$ to do it.


EVEN if you do, no school competes at the highest level every year. A REAL conference needs 4-6 schools competing at the highest levels so you always have somebody in the race.

The ACC is just setup like a one legged stool....it just won't last.

When Fedora leaves things will improve. The 4 years that Butch Davis was in Chapel Hill attendance averaged around 60,000.

(09-23-2015 11:48 AM)XLance Wrote:  When Fedora leaves things will improve. The 4 years that Butch Davis was in Chapel Hill attendance averaged around 60,000.

Historically a program with sanctions doesn't see improvements in attendance, so even once Fedora is gone, I'm betting it will still be a few years before there are more bodies in baby blue than aluminum in Kenan.

(09-23-2015 10:40 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:20 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:04 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:02 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:54 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  What a pathetic excuse.

In a state of 10 million people, in which almost everybody (Asheville, Charlotte, Triad, eastern NC) lives less than 4 hours from the triangle.

Then tell me somewhere else this exists. 3 FBS programs 30 mins apart. 150k capacity for football seating.

120k capacity
TCU-SMU-UNT

Dallas-Forth Worth area is much larger than the triangle area of NC.

Second, all 3 triangle schools play in major conferences

Three, that's still a 30-40k difference in attendance capacity.

Then maybe it's time for someone in the "triangle" to pull their football program out of the ACC since it is to much for the area? Maybe replace them with ECU as a football only member?

Ummm. No. ECU football doesn't provide enough.

The solutions is fairly straightforward. Improve the product on the field and stop scheduling stupidly. To have all three of them with games at the same time is absolutely crazy.

They need Charlie Justice back.

(09-23-2015 12:11 PM)Lucy Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 11:48 AM)XLance Wrote:  When Fedora leaves things will improve. The 4 years that Butch Davis was in Chapel Hill attendance averaged around 60,000.

Historically a program with sanctions doesn't see improvements in attendance, so even once Fedora is gone, I'm betting it will still be a few years before there are more bodies in baby blue than aluminum in Kenan.

Lucy, THAT's IT!!! The solution is so obvious... change the primary school color to aluminum! PROBLEM SOLVED!

(09-23-2015 10:02 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Then tell me somewhere else this exists. 3 FBS programs 30 mins apart. 150k capacity for football seating.

Usually Cougar fans don't attend Ewetes' home games and Duck fans don't attend Beavers' home games and vice-versa - so I don't really get the aggregate "Triangle" attendance argument. Do UNC fans customarily attend Duke games? Do you see Wolfpack fans in Chapel Hill routinely? Or, are there a lot of college football fans in the Triangle without an allegiance to any school who just attend the best available matchup?

I know this isn't exactly what you are asking or looking for, but compare to:

Utah and BYU are about 40 miles apart. 110K seating capacity between the two (65K for BYU and 45K for Utah) and frequent sell-outs at both places at the same time. Estimated SLC metro area population is about 1.1 million.

Oregon and Oregon St. are about 45 miles apart. They had 91K attendance between the two last Saturday (57K for Oregon, 34K for OSU). About 3.3 million living in the Willamette Valley area - from Portland to Eugene (2.3 in Portland metro area). Eugene is 100 miles from the outskirts of the Portland metro area.

(09-23-2015 02:15 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  They need Charlie Justice back.

Funny you should mention that.
Gene Chizik's father was best friends with Charlie Justice and his brother Bill in Asheville.


This is an interesting article and worth your time to read it.
It mentions Chizik, Sr. who was only one of 14 Marines to come down alive after a battle on Sugar Loaf Hill on Okinawa during WWII. After the war Chizik and Bill Justice attended Rollins College and played football together.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/...21976.html

(09-23-2015 04:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 10:02 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Then tell me somewhere else this exists. 3 FBS programs 30 mins apart. 150k capacity for football seating.

Usually Cougar fans don't attend Ewetes' home games and Duck fans don't attend Beavers' home games and vice-versa - so I don't really get the aggregate "Triangle" attendance argument. Do UNC fans customarily attend Duke games? Do you see Wolfpack fans in Chapel Hill routinely? Or, are there a lot of college football fans in the Triangle without an allegiance to any school who just attend the best available matchup?

I know this isn't exactly what you are asking or looking for, but compare to:

Utah and BYU are about 40 miles apart. 110K seating capacity between the two (65K for BYU and 45K for Utah) and frequent sell-outs at both places at the same time. Estimated SLC metro area population is about 1.1 million.

Oregon and Oregon St. are about 45 miles apart. They had 91K attendance between the two last Saturday (57K for Oregon, 34K for OSU). About 3.3 million living in the Willamette Valley area - from Portland to Eugene (2.3 in Portland metro area). Eugene is 100 miles from the outskirts of the Portland metro area.

Because the schools are so close together you have split family loyalty..parents might go to UNC and the kids go to State or Duke..and vice versa. So on game day you may have to choose a game that's not your team.

Simple Answer: Winning Solves EVERYTHING!!!!


....simple question: Why not just serve Craft beer @ the Football game.??
FLossY Out...

I really don't believe that the size of football crowds in Chapel Hill has all that much effect on any other program in the league. It's not like this is anything new. There were a lot of empty seats in the 70's when Carolina fans still had some reasonable expectation that they could compete for a conference championship. But they haven't won since 1979. That's a long time.

Even when they had teams under Mack Brown that rose to the Top 10 - even the Top 5 - pretty much everybody knew that when a real opponent came to town they were going to get whupped. That's why Mack Brown left in the first place.

I don't see that changing anytime soon, and apparently, neither do today's fans. And frankly, I think they are largely OK with that. That die was cast when the league added Georgia Tech and Florida State. It was reinforced when we added Miami and Virginia Tech. It meant UNC was no longer going to be a major player on the gridiron, and that game attendance was for social reasons and not fan support reasons.

If I were a Carolina fan, I would hope that poor attendance is just a function of alternative entertainment options in the area (including other football programs). But in my heart I would know that's not really true. I live in Raleigh, and it's not exactly the entertainment capital of the state, and that's saying a lot. And it's not ticket prices, either. Those seats you saw may have been empty, but many of them were already paid for. I'll bet the season ticket holders who weren't there weren't attending some other event. They were just staying home.

(09-23-2015 07:14 PM)ken d Wrote:  I really don't believe that the size of football crowds in Chapel Hill has all that much effect on any other program in the league. It's not like this is anything new. There were a lot of empty seats in the 70's when Carolina fans still had some reasonable expectation that they could compete for a conference championship. But they haven't won since 1979. That's a long time.

Even when they had teams under Mack Brown that rose to the Top 10 - even the Top 5 - pretty much everybody knew that when a real opponent came to town they were going to get whupped. That's why Mack Brown left in the first place.

I don't see that changing anytime soon, and apparently, neither do today's fans. And frankly, I think they are largely OK with that. That die was cast when the league added Georgia Tech and Florida State. It was reinforced when we added Miami and Virginia Tech. It meant UNC was no longer going to be a major player on the gridiron, and that game attendance was for social reasons and not fan support reasons.

If I were a Carolina fan, I would hope that poor attendance is just a function of alternative entertainment options in the area (including other football programs). But in my heart I would know that's not really true. I live in Raleigh, and it's not exactly the entertainment capital of the state, and that's saying a lot. And it's not ticket prices, either. Those seats you saw may have been empty, but many of them were already paid for. I'll bet the season ticket holders who weren't there weren't attending some other event. They were just staying home.

Golf courses are at their peak in NC in late September and early October. The Beach after Labor Day is great when the crowds are gone. It's almost leaf season in the mountains. Mountain and Beach houses have to be closed for the winter.
Of the 7500 available parking places on campus, about 7000 are controlled by the Rams Club and require a hefty contribution.

These are not excuses, merely obsticles.
Personally, I believe it's just a matter of priorities....I haven't missed a home game in Chapel Hill in 46 years.

(09-23-2015 09:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are not excuses... it's just a matter of priorities.

This is the distilled essence of the thing.

(09-23-2015 09:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  Golf courses are at their peak in NC in late September and early October. The Beach after Labor Day is great when the crowds are gone. It's almost leaf season in the mountains. Mountain and Beach houses have to be closed for the winter.
Of the 7500 available parking places on campus, about 7000 are controlled by the Rams Club and require a hefty contribution.

The same things apply to Clemson yet for our two home games we have had over 81k each time without being in anywhere near as large of a metro area nor having anywhere near the alumni of UNC.

Good thing FSU doesn't have beaches or golf courses....or nobody would go to our games.

Bottom line. UNC has to be a better football program. They have EVERYTHING they need to do that but desire.


How does the ACC solve that?


And it DOES affect the whole conference. We are a conference built on VERY few schools vested in football. Until that changes, the ACC is headed to be picked apart.