(09-22-2015 01:21 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Serious question... why do ANY of these guys need a degree to play football? If they're actually serious about getting a degree they can do that later in life. I'd be interested in seeing a study that looks into what the majority of revenue sport athletes are doing after college.

In the context of athletes, it is less about needing a degree, and wanting a certain amount of experience after high school to properly evaluate. Experience on the field to be evaluated, experience at a higher lever of competition for the league's own use (less time spent in development), and helps improve the player's mental preparedness to play the game. In the NFL's case, it also limits the number of players they need to fully evaluate in one year, and limits the number of players trying to gain entry in one season, which actually helps players, as it makes it more likely lower round players get a chance.

There is also the physical maturity level, that is required to play football, but that is very much a gray area, and cannot really be used as a reason. However that said, you can see how much more affect rookie players tend to have in the NFL, then they do in say the NBA. Versus 20 years ago, when NBA high draft picks were older, it was not rare for a rookie to come in and not only excel, but be an all-star. Now rookie all-stars are rare in the NBA, which shows a bit how their lack of readiness to compete and excel compares to the older, more mature NFL rookies.

Fournette will do what that other recent freak, Clowney, tried to do - go through the motions his senior year to avoid injury.

Won't work, because you can't hide on the football field.

If Fournette can't get some kind of Lloyds of London insurance policy to protect him in the case of draft-killing injury, he should just sit out after this year until age 22 or whatever the NFL rule is. He is fully ready for the NFL, and the rule just means he has to risk getting injured playing for free in college.

(09-22-2015 03:36 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I use this example a lot, to make it real world. My company will not hire you without a college degree, or 4 years experience in the field. Doesn't matter than someone without a degree or with less experience might possibly excel at the job, that is our rule and we don't bend it. And if someone took them to court, they would lose. because many other industries have similar requirements (education or experience). Every company or organization has that right. As long as it is evenly applied. I point that out because the often suggested alternative, to allow a panel to evaluate players who are "good enough" to play now, THAT would be a scenario that would cause the league to lose in court without question. Because then it is discriminatory.

It all comes down to whether or not the NFL teams are a single company or a group of competing companies. Any team deciding that they want three years college experience would be perfectly legal. However, having a league wide rule is suspect. In tech terms, if Google only wants to hire college graduates, that's okay. If Google, Microsoft, IBM, and Apple collectively agree to only hire college graduates, that's not okay. Sports leagues have a weird place where some activities that would be illegal in other industries are okay (e.g. the draft) but they have to argue that those activities are beneficial to improving the overall product. I don't see how anyone could argue that having Fournette in the NFL would harm the NFL.

(09-22-2015 03:45 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-22-2015 01:21 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Serious question... why do ANY of these guys need a degree to play football? If they're actually serious about getting a degree they can do that later in life. I'd be interested in seeing a study that looks into what the majority of revenue sport athletes are doing after college.

In the context of athletes, it is less about needing a degree, and wanting a certain amount of experience after high school to properly evaluate. Experience on the field to be evaluated, experience at a higher lever of competition for the league's own use (less time spent in development), and helps improve the player's mental preparedness to play the game. In the NFL's case, it also limits the number of players they need to fully evaluate in one year, and limits the number of players trying to gain entry in one season, which actually helps players, as it makes it more likely lower round players get a chance.

There is also the physical maturity level, that is required to play football, but that is very much a gray area, and cannot really be used as a reason. However that said, you can see how much more affect rookie players tend to have in the NFL, then they do in say the NBA. Versus 20 years ago, when NBA high draft picks were older, it was not rare for a rookie to come in and not only excel, but be an all-star. Now rookie all-stars are rare in the NBA, which shows a bit how their lack of readiness to compete and excel compares to the older, more mature NFL rookies.

That's sort of my point. The NFL uses college football as a farm system of sorts. Lots of unintended consequences at the collegiate level because of that.

He has one great game over an Auburn team that Jacksonville State ran over. Let us temper our excitement. He is not Billy Cannon yet.

(09-23-2015 07:32 AM)nuftw Wrote:  It all comes down to whether or not the NFL teams are a single company or a group of competing companies. Any team deciding that they want three years college experience would be perfectly legal. However, having a league wide rule is suspect. In tech terms, if Google only wants to hire college graduates, that's okay. If Google, Microsoft, IBM, and Apple collectively agree to only hire college graduates, that's not okay. Sports leagues have a weird place where some activities that would be illegal in other industries are okay (e.g. the draft) but they have to argue that those activities are beneficial to improving the overall product. I don't see how anyone could argue that having Fournette in the NFL would harm the NFL.

So the American Bar Association has no authority to set standards on what qualifications one must have to be an attorney? I work in the mortgage industry. We have industry standards that all companies must follow, and qualifications one must meet before they can be employed as a loan officer. Realtors the same way. And many other industries have the same.

This is not something new, or specific to sports. In this case, it is the league setting qualification standards before you are allowed to be a "professional football player" in their league. Just as the NCAA can tell each member school the minimum qualifications each student athlete must meet in order to be eligible. Even though each university is a separate entity.

So it doesn't matter AT ALL if they are a single company, or a group of competing companies, if they are together under one umbrella organization. Just like the NFL can set a salary cap, set roster limits, limits on the number of coaches, penalties for rules violations, rules teams must play with, draft order, etc. Unless you are saying the NFL has no authority to set ANY of these standards/rules, because they are not one company, the designation is meaningless. Because your hypothesis supposed each team is it's own company, and can make it's own rules, which means it would apply to more than just who is in the draft.

(09-23-2015 09:06 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  He has one great game over an Auburn team that Jacksonville State ran over. Let us temper our excitement. He is not Billy Cannon yet.

It's more than that. He had a great season last year. He gained over 1,000 yards despite starting only half the games. If you saw the Music City Bowl against Notre Dame, you saw him just as unstoppable.

And combined with that are the obvious physical tools: 6'2", 230 pounds, 600 pound squat, 4.35 40-time. He *looks* like Bo Jackson or Eric Dickerson out there.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...aft-rules/

The reason for the rule:

"The majority of underclassmen are not physically or mentally prepared to enter the [NFL],” the league states in a guide for college head coaches. “Most would benefit significantly from another year of college football.”

Fournette has suggested players may be physically ready to make the jump, but the mental fortitude is not always ready for that kind of change. It does not matter how physically gifted and crafted you may be if you do not have the mental maturity to handle the responsibilities that come with playing in the NFL.



The rule was recently challenged:

Ohio State’s Maurice Clarett once tried to challenge the NFL rules feeling he was ready for the next level after just one year in Columbus. Fournette may be much more physically prepared than Clarett was at the time, but even he is not likely ready to jump right into the rigors of the NFL just yet. And recent history might suggest coming back for another year is probably best to get more of a sample of what any one player is capable of doing. Just last January NFL types were calling for Ohio State quarterback Cardale Jones to leave the Buckeyes and enter the NFL Draft after three career starts (although an incredibly impressive three career starts). Jones returned to the Buckeyes this season and has now been pulled from the starting job just three games into the season.

(09-23-2015 03:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-23-2015 09:06 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  He has one great game over an Auburn team that Jacksonville State ran over. Let us temper our excitement. He is not Billy Cannon yet.

It's more than that. He had a great season last year. He gained over 1,000 yards despite starting only half the games. If you saw the Music City Bowl against Notre Dame, you saw him just as unstoppable.

And combined with that are the obvious physical tools: 6'2", 230 pounds, 600 pound squat, 4.35 40-time. He *looks* like Bo Jackson or Eric Dickerson out there.

I won't be surprised if he is a major star, but I am leery of crowning the newest MVP too soon.