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Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
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SoCalPanther Offline
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Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/85...oes-worsen

Death, taxes and Pitt’s fourth-quarter futility -- three things everyone can count on. The Panthers climbed back from a 24-17 deficit midway through the fourth quarter to tie Saturday's game against Iowa with less than a minute to play. But, of course, Iowa booted a 57-yard field goal to win it as time expired.

How surprising was this for Pitt fans? Probably not one bit.

This marks the 32nd straight time Pitt has lost a game in which it trailed at any point in the fourth quarter, easily the longest such streak in the nation. Its last come-from-behind win came in the 2009 Meineke Car Care Bowl, when it erased a one-point deficit with a field goal with 52 seconds to play against North Carolina. In that same span, Pitt has also lost 13 games in which it was tied or ahead in the fourth quarter, the second most of any Power 5 program.

Overall, Pitt has now lost 18 games decided by a touchdown or less since the start of 2010, tied with Iowa for the most by any FBS team.

----------------------------------

That win over UNC was the Tire Bowl and the first 10 win season for Pitt since '81.

Other stats.... Pitt has not gone undefeated in OOC play - EVER - if I remember correctly (remember Pitt was an independent until BE FB started but that's still a LONG TIME).
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 10:22 AM by SoCalPanther.)
09-22-2015 10:20 AM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
Not that you can judge a coach based off (less than) one season, but this board has routinely told me I'm supposed to believe Pitt will be really good again at some point despite history saying, well, that Pitt is "futile"?
09-22-2015 11:48 AM
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ndlutz Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-22-2015 11:48 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Not that you can judge a coach based off (less than) one season, but this board has routinely told me I'm supposed to believe Pitt will be really good again at some point despite history saying, well, that Pitt is "futile"?

I don't blame you for being a skeptic. In fact, I'm pretty skeptical myself.

I'll say this, though - there is more of a ground swell of support around the Pitt football program now than there was previously.

It was encouraging that Pitt did not cheap out in hiring Narduzzi. My impression of Narduzzi thus far is positive although I do understand that only time will tell on his tenure.

Believe it or not I think Pitt fans understand your plight. We're really happy to be in the ACC because of where we came from. We're the little guy in this conference and FSU is the big fish. In the football world, it sucks to feel like your pond is getting diluted with crappy little fish, particularly when you know the pond next door is full of some seriously huge, sexy fish.

I hope we step it up.
09-22-2015 12:12 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
I think Pitt should average 8-4ish over any 10-year period. It's just they're routinely included in teams that need to join FSU/Clemson in the top tier for the conference to improve. And people seem to actually believe they can and will. I guess that's what I'm failing to see, considering history completely contradicts that.
09-22-2015 01:14 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-22-2015 01:14 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  I think Pitt should average 8-4ish over any 10-year period. It's just they're routinely included in teams that need to join FSU/Clemson in the top tier for the conference to improve. And people seem to actually believe they can and will. I guess that's what I'm failing to see, considering history completely contradicts that.

By virtue of being in the Coastal division I think it's plausible that Pitt could go 10-2, possibly even better. Then they'd have to face either FSU or Clemson or maybe (someday) Louisville in the ACC CG and we'd find out what they are REALLY made of.

I AM troubled by "never gone undefeated OOC". That MUST get fixed. I do like what I've seen so far with Narduzzi.
09-22-2015 02:15 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
To be fair, Pitt always played ND annually, and ND has been the better team for the last 30+ years.

Yes, Pitt could have a 10-2 type season on occasion. It's not all that likely, though, and they'd still probably average about 8-4 over a 10-year period even with that type of season included. I mean, GT has only averaged about 8-4 the last decade. Why on earth would Pitt do any better?
09-22-2015 02:18 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-22-2015 02:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  To be fair, Pitt always played ND annually, and ND has been the better team for the last 30+ years.

Yes, Pitt could have a 10-2 type season on occasion. It's not all that likely, though, and they'd still probably average about 8-4 over a 10-year period even with that type of season included. I mean, GT has only averaged about 8-4 the last decade. Why on earth would Pitt do any better?

I could see that. Virginia Tech had a long run of 10-win seasons, and as much as I'd LIKE to think VT is special that way I don't see why Pitt or GT couldn't do the same... as long as Miami remains "sleeping". If the Canes "wake up", it's all over for the rest of the Coastal as far as winning the division (even IF we can go 10-2).
09-22-2015 02:46 PM
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
I trust that Narduzzi is a high value hire. Lots of schools were interested in him (us included). I just think he is getting all the losing outta the way for his year 2-3.03-no03-yes

FlossY Out...04-wine
09-22-2015 02:57 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-22-2015 02:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-22-2015 02:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  To be fair, Pitt always played ND annually, and ND has been the better team for the last 30+ years.

Yes, Pitt could have a 10-2 type season on occasion. It's not all that likely, though, and they'd still probably average about 8-4 over a 10-year period even with that type of season included. I mean, GT has only averaged about 8-4 the last decade. Why on earth would Pitt do any better?

I could see that. Virginia Tech had a long run of 10-win seasons, and as much as I'd LIKE to think VT is special that way I don't see why Pitt or GT couldn't do the same... as long as Miami remains "sleeping". If the Canes "wake up", it's all over for the rest of the Coastal as far as winning the division (even IF we can go 10-2).

Pitt only averages 8-4 if all things are clicking. VT should average 9-3 regardless. There is a clear difference in the two programs as noted by the last 20-25 years. Also, GT should be averaging 9-3 regardless as well. They're located in the middle of the second best recruiting grounds in the entire southeast. Huge underperformers. But Pitt's consistent-ceiling is not as high as either.
09-22-2015 03:19 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-22-2015 03:19 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(09-22-2015 02:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-22-2015 02:18 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  To be fair, Pitt always played ND annually, and ND has been the better team for the last 30+ years.

Yes, Pitt could have a 10-2 type season on occasion. It's not all that likely, though, and they'd still probably average about 8-4 over a 10-year period even with that type of season included. I mean, GT has only averaged about 8-4 the last decade. Why on earth would Pitt do any better?

I could see that. Virginia Tech had a long run of 10-win seasons, and as much as I'd LIKE to think VT is special that way I don't see why Pitt or GT couldn't do the same... as long as Miami remains "sleeping". If the Canes "wake up", it's all over for the rest of the Coastal as far as winning the division (even IF we can go 10-2).

Pitt only averages 8-4 if all things are clicking. VT should average 9-3 regardless. There is a clear difference in the two programs as noted by the last 20-25 years. Also, GT should be averaging 9-3 regardless as well. They're located in the middle of the second best recruiting grounds in the entire southeast. Huge underperformers. But Pitt's consistent-ceiling is not as high as either.

You may be right.
09-22-2015 04:24 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
I certainly don't blame anyone for being skeptical about Pitt's ceiling or potential. They have certainly earned it.

However, I think its very difficult for anyone to know what Pitt's ceiling is because it has been so long since they've even tried.

Just look at their spending versus everyone else's spending and you will see that they spend less than teams like Duke and Wake Forest.

In the 90s, when the Big East football conference was founded, Pitt's commitment was just plain pathetic. When you would walk into old Pitt Stadium at that time there were literally giant mounds of rubble right in the main concourse that they had gathered from the deteriorating stadium. That's a true story. Have you ever seen anywhere else?

Then, when they finally gave up on the old girl for good, instead of ponying up the money to build a new one, or to completely refurbish the old one, they did what they often do, they took the cheapest approach possible and just moved the games a few miles from campus and partnered with the Steelers on what became Heinz Field.

Coaching hires have also been done on the cheap. For the past several years we've had the lowest recruiting budget and the lowest coaching budget of any ACC school. We were also at the bottom of the Big East's list in those particular areas.

That's what people are talking about when they say things have changed. Within the past year, Pitt has hired a new chancellor who has made it clear that he sees athletics as a great vehicle for the University at large. He also fired an almost universally reviled AD and replaced him as well as hiring one of the most sought after assistant coaches in the country. Those are all significant steps forward for Pitt.

Additionally, Narduzzi was given a budget that was about 2.5 times the size of the one Chryst had and they poured millions of dollars into renovating their training facilities – something that was long overdue. Also, the recruiting budget has been dramatically increased. These are all tangible signs of progress that I have not seen in decades.

That is not to say that there are not limitations because there are. By virtue of being a fairly small university that is forced to compete head to head for attention, media coverage, fan affection, etc. with arguably the NFL's most successful franchise will always hold us back. That is just a stone cold truth – particularly for a team located in the Northeast where pro football is king no matter what.

However there are also many opportunities that are virtually unique to Pitt due to the happy accident of geography. Just look at the NFL Hall of Fame and you'll see that an unusually high percentage of them come from our natural recording footprint, especially western Pennsylvania. That is why Pitt trails only USC, Notre Dame and Ohio State for most Hall of Famer's.

In fairness, Michigan is tied with us on that front and I would be remiss if I failed to mention the Wolverines. However, we have more HOFers than Alabama… And Nebraska… And LSU… And Florida… And Florida State… You get the idea.

I believe that history conclusively shows that when Pitt has been serious about winning, they have usually won. That is because they can recruit not only western Pennsylvania but also Ohio, which is just a stones throw from Pittsburgh, as well as talent rich areas like New Jersey and DelMarVa.

If Pitt does well in those areas and is able to sprinkle in some Floridians and maybe an Atlanta area kid or two, they should be able to consistently field competitive teams. What that means for the record perspective is highly variable and dependent on a lot of other factors.

Also, I agree with the opinion expressed earlier that if Miami ever gets its act together again, we will all be playing for second place – and that goes for the teams in both divisions.
09-22-2015 11:31 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
So Pitt sucks because they aren't trying?

That doesn't make me feel better about Pitt.....at ALL.

In Pitts defense, it is a conference loaded with basketball schools that claim that have potential, but the reality is....they aren't really trying as hard as they can either.


Of course, the ACC refuses to see an issue there, let alone try and change things to fix the issue.

But because the ACC has schools that sit back while others earn.....it is unstable.....and will likely breakup at some point because other conferences are trying.
09-23-2015 06:14 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-23-2015 06:14 AM)nole Wrote:  So Pitt sucks because they aren't trying?

That doesn't make me feel better about Pitt.....at ALL.

In Pitts defense, it is a conference loaded with basketball schools that claim that have potential, but the reality is....they aren't really trying as hard as they can either.


Of course, the ACC refuses to see an issue there, let alone try and change things to fix the issue.

But because the ACC has schools that sit back while others earn.....it is unstable.....and will likely breakup at some point because other conferences are trying.

Nole, I think you TOTALLY missed the point... Pitt HASN'T been trying, but there was a tectonic shift at Pitt last year when the AD was fired and Narduzzi was hired as the new head coach. Success is TBD, but they ARE making the right moves NOW, IMO...
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 08:42 AM by Hokie Mark.)
09-23-2015 08:41 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-23-2015 06:14 AM)nole Wrote:  So Pitt sucks because they aren't trying?

That doesn't make me feel better about Pitt.....at ALL.

In Pitts defense, it is a conference loaded with basketball schools that claim that have potential, but the reality is....they aren't really trying as hard as they can either.


Of course, the ACC refuses to see an issue there, let alone try and change things to fix the issue.

But because the ACC has schools that sit back while others earn.....it is unstable.....and will likely breakup at some point because other conferences are trying.

I wasn't trying to make you feel better. I don't really care how you feel about Pitt. We are not auditioning for anything, we are already in this league.

Also, I certainly wasn't defending them or their approach to college athletics. I've been a bitter critic of the way Pitt has approached its programs, which I think has been incredibly shortsighted.

I was just trying to address the situation honestly.

Some of this is cultural. The problem Pitt has struggled with for decades has been the notion that athletic success somehow necessarily comes at the direct expense of the academic integrity of the larger institution.

At North Carolina for example, the administration was working hand-in-hand with the athletic department to advance the men's basketball program. Obviously, they took things way too far and we're rightly severely punished for it. However, the fact that they were even working together at all was interesting to me. That would never, ever happen at a school like Pitt if for no other reason than the fear of appearances. Here, traditionally speaking, the academic arm has looked at the athletic dept. as a necessary evil, and certainly not the face of the University.

I am sure that Boston College and Syracuse face these same issues. I know Rutgers faces the same inherent conflict. Like Pitt's faculty, Rutgers' faculty is always keeping a very close eye on their athletic department to make sure that they continue to tow the line and continue to understand where they rank in the university's pecking order – well below the academic arm.

Penn State was really the only major northeastern school to buck the cultural trend. They did that by controlling the media and carefully cultivating their image. That is to say they pretended to run it as an academic first university that just happened to have an extremely strong college football program. However, as we all saw with the unraveling of the University through the JoePa/Sandusky scandal, the way things were actually run up there were very different than how they liked to portray things.

As for Pitt, I agree with the new chancellor Patrick Gallagher. He said upon assuming his new role, "Excellence is nonselective. I believe we can be great in everything we do."

That really caught my ear because to me the message is very clear and very different than what many of his predecessors have said over the past 20–30.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 09:49 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
09-23-2015 09:22 AM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-23-2015 08:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-23-2015 06:14 AM)nole Wrote:  So Pitt sucks because they aren't trying?

That doesn't make me feel better about Pitt.....at ALL.

In Pitts defense, it is a conference loaded with basketball schools that claim that have potential, but the reality is....they aren't really trying as hard as they can either.


Of course, the ACC refuses to see an issue there, let alone try and change things to fix the issue.

But because the ACC has schools that sit back while others earn.....it is unstable.....and will likely breakup at some point because other conferences are trying.

Nole, I think you TOTALLY missed the point... Pitt HASN'T been trying, but there was a tectonic shift at Pitt last year when the AD was fired and Narduzzi was hired as the new head coach. Success is TBD, but they ARE making the right moves NOW, IMO...

Haha. Ok.

Hiring a former nfl coach wasn't trying? Hiring a coordinator from a highly successful program wasn't trying? Isn't that second one the very reason this board is so high on Narduzzi? What has tangibly changed that makes all of you say it's changed? Being hopeful doesn't mean things have changed or are improving.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 09:45 AM by Marge Schott.)
09-23-2015 09:44 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
(09-23-2015 09:44 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(09-23-2015 08:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-23-2015 06:14 AM)nole Wrote:  So Pitt sucks because they aren't trying?

That doesn't make me feel better about Pitt.....at ALL.

In Pitts defense, it is a conference loaded with basketball schools that claim that have potential, but the reality is....they aren't really trying as hard as they can either.


Of course, the ACC refuses to see an issue there, let alone try and change things to fix the issue.

But because the ACC has schools that sit back while others earn.....it is unstable.....and will likely breakup at some point because other conferences are trying.

Nole, I think you TOTALLY missed the point... Pitt HASN'T been trying, but there was a tectonic shift at Pitt last year when the AD was fired and Narduzzi was hired as the new head coach. Success is TBD, but they ARE making the right moves NOW, IMO...

Haha. Ok.

Hiring a former nfl coach wasn't trying? Hiring a coordinator from a highly successful program wasn't trying? Isn't that second one the very reason this board is so high on Narduzzi? What has tangibly changed that makes all of you say it's changed? Being hopeful doesn't mean things have changed or are improving.

Again, that's a perfectly reasonable point of view. On the surface, I don't disagree with you at all.

However, think it is germane to point out that Dave Wannstedt was among the lowest paid Big East coaches and his asst. coach budget was a MAJOR bone of contention between him and now former AD Steve Pederson and I believe is what ultimately led to his unceremonious firing.

Not coincidentally, Pitt's relatively small football budget was also a major bone of contention between Walt Harris and Steve Pederson. It was also a sore spot for Paul Chryst and Todd Graham before him. You certainly do not have to take my word for that. There are plenty of articles that you can find via Google searches which will corroborate those statements.

I would say the only coach for whom athletic spending has not been an issue was Michael Haywood and that is only because he coached here for about two weeks before he was arrested on domestic violence charges.

Again, I cannot make this clear enough. I am not guaranteeing nor am I predicting anything. Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I couldn't be more honest than saying I do not give two shitts how highly the Florida State fans, or the Clemson fans, etc. think about the Panthers football program or its potential. None of anything any of us has to say means anything. Success will have to come on the field, period.

However, since were having the discussion, I thought I would give you an honest assessment of the situation from someone who closely follows it rather than just a lazy, superficial overview that means nothing to anyone.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 10:08 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
09-23-2015 10:02 AM
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
The Dr. basically gave the rundown of why Pitt has consistently underachieved that was tied directly to how much support the university gave to the FB program. One area I will disagree with is Pitt's ceiling. Frankly, we don't know what Pitt's ceiling is because for many years Pitt did not properly invest in the program. I think the ceiling is higher than most in this thread realizes. Granted, I can be a pollyanna when it comes to hopes for the future.

I don't believe there has to be an either/or when it comes to Pitt academics vs Pitt athletics. A number of universities have proven that excellence in both is quite possible. While my university has consistently underperformed on the athletic side, the strides it has made on the academic side has more than made up for that in my book. Overall, I want the university to succeed in both, so I'm hoping that this new regime will maintain/improve the academic side while IMPROVING the athletics side.
09-23-2015 12:35 PM
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nole Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
Just to clarify....I don't think anyone is doubting Pitts potential.

Great school, awesome city, awesome football tradition.

The issue is one that can be controlled......is the school vested in the program?

This is not unique to Pitt, there are a ton of great schools in the ACC that simply will not invest in football to their full ability.

This is the core issue I have with the ACC.
09-23-2015 01:24 PM
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
Pitt should never have had gutted the football program in the late 1930's. The chancellor really miscalculated there. Jock Sutherland was chased off and scholarships cut. Pitt from 1915 to 1938 was easily one of the most elite programs in the nation.
09-23-2015 02:02 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pitt’s run of futility - ACC Blog
Former AD Steve Pederson was the worst thing that ever happened to Pitt football.
Getting rid of that joker was a message that they are ready to compete again (IMO).
09-23-2015 03:58 PM
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