(09-24-2015 10:21 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 02:00 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  OkieLite is TallGrass right?

Thanks for proving my point about Uconn fans.

Don't worry about what the Okie troll thinks, he's constantly hijacking threads with bs arguments. He'll just call you butthurt next.

(09-24-2015 03:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Not unusual. He is treating patients and the medical school gets money from his practice. I looked up his bio and he specializes in reconstructive hand surgery. In fact, he is apparently the only physician in the entire state who is fellowship trained in both plastic surgery and orthopedic surgery.

Given his credentials and being at the med school he is likely drawing referrals from the entire state and maybe even some neighboring states as well.

He might have an argument he is underpaid.

But the spirit of the article makes it seem that the university is paying him the figure shown for being a professor.

There was more to the story than that. Now I understand the full story. He's paid that much for being a gifted surgeon in the university hospital.

He's providing value that corresponds to revenue outside the typical revenue structure of the university. Same as a football or basketball coach. It's not exclusively tax dollars that support his salary.

I think what you are saying is pure speculation, and unless there is some evidence that this is the case, it is irrelevant. Medical school salaries in this range may not be the norm, but neither are they unusual. Depending on the size of the med school, a dean might earn in the $300K -$600K range and have 15-20 faculty members who earn more than he does. That's not money from outside sources. That is straight salary.

Yes a salary ... but for doing what? Just being a researcher and professor? Or for also being a clinician in the university clinic (hospital)?

That matters.

I'm not sure why it matters. Med school professors don't just teach classes. Some never teach any. In fact, after the first year, there is very little classroom work for students. The teaching is, by necessity, happening in a clinical setting. Virtually all professors treat patients in their specialty.

If he's a professor, then he's teaching and/or researching for the university. Otherwise, he'd just be a clinician (like a doctor or a surgeon) in a clinic (hospital).


I think my point was supposed to be about the misleading nature of these lists. And so just like I don't think it makes sense to think of a coach as a public employee, I don't think it made since to think of this surgeon in that way, either.

(09-24-2015 06:29 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  A ha! I knew there was something fishy.

Right. So he's a clinician. He makes his money as a clinician. The university pays him $50k as an associate, but public records show his full salary.

Not unusual. He is treating patients and the medical school gets money from his practice. I looked up his bio and he specializes in reconstructive hand surgery. In fact, he is apparently the only physician in the entire state who is fellowship trained in both plastic surgery and orthopedic surgery.

Given his credentials and being at the med school he is likely drawing referrals from the entire state and maybe even some neighboring states as well.

He might have an argument he is underpaid.

But the spirit of the article makes it seem that the university is paying him the figure shown for being a professor.

There was more to the story than that. Now I understand the full story. He's paid that much for being a gifted surgeon in the university hospital.

He's providing value that corresponds to revenue outside the typical revenue structure of the university. Same as a football or basketball coach. It's not exclusively tax dollars that support his salary.

I would argue that coaching is not the same at all. In sports, there is ALWAYS a winner and a loser. The SEC has 14 teams playing an 8-game schedule, so there's 56 conference wins up for grabs. You could have 14 high school coaches in the SEC and they'd still split 56 wins amongst them. If Nick Saban was never hired and Bama was below average, odds are that Houston Nutt and/or Tommy Tuberville would be considered great coaches and never would have been fired.

In medicine (and most other fields), you're actually creating value. That hand surgeon can do things that can't be done by anyone else in Nevada (and given his salary, perhaps no one else in the world). Odds are that if he didn't do it then no one else would.

That's the complete opposite of a zero-sum game. If this hand surgeon had never been hired, it's not like some other hand surgeon would have been able to take on more patients or mimic his ground-breaking techniques.

Your point is a fine one, but tangential to my point.

My point was about separating people like coaches at public universities and hand surgeons at public hospitals from "true" public employees.

For example, you might call them "public-affiliated", instead.

(09-25-2015 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 12:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But the spirit of the article makes it seem that the university is paying him the figure shown for being a professor.

There was more to the story than that. Now I understand the full story. He's paid that much for being a gifted surgeon in the university hospital.

He's providing value that corresponds to revenue outside the typical revenue structure of the university. Same as a football or basketball coach. It's not exclusively tax dollars that support his salary.

I think what you are saying is pure speculation, and unless there is some evidence that this is the case, it is irrelevant. Medical school salaries in this range may not be the norm, but neither are they unusual. Depending on the size of the med school, a dean might earn in the $300K -$600K range and have 15-20 faculty members who earn more than he does. That's not money from outside sources. That is straight salary.

Yes a salary ... but for doing what? Just being a researcher and professor? Or for also being a clinician in the university clinic (hospital)?

That matters.

I'm not sure why it matters. Med school professors don't just teach classes. Some never teach any. In fact, after the first year, there is very little classroom work for students. The teaching is, by necessity, happening in a clinical setting. Virtually all professors treat patients in their specialty.

If he's a professor, then he's teaching and/or researching for the university. Otherwise, he'd just be a clinician (like a doctor or a surgeon) in a clinic (hospital).


I think my point was supposed to be about the misleading nature of these lists. And so just like I don't think it makes sense to think of a coach as a public employee, I don't think it made since to think of this surgeon in that way, either.

It's clear you have no understanding about what med school professors do or how med schools operate. If you did, you would understand why including this man on that list is in no way misleading. He is absolutely a public employee, regardless of what you think, and he is highly paid.

(09-24-2015 11:34 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 10:21 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 02:00 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  OkieLite is TallGrass right?

Thanks for proving my point about Uconn fans.

Don't worry about what the Okie troll thinks, he's constantly hijacking threads with bs arguments. He'll just call you butthurt next.

What is it with Big East fan bases? You guys are hypersensitive.

(09-25-2015 06:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think what you are saying is pure speculation, and unless there is some evidence that this is the case, it is irrelevant. Medical school salaries in this range may not be the norm, but neither are they unusual. Depending on the size of the med school, a dean might earn in the $300K -$600K range and have 15-20 faculty members who earn more than he does. That's not money from outside sources. That is straight salary.

Yes a salary ... but for doing what? Just being a researcher and professor? Or for also being a clinician in the university clinic (hospital)?

That matters.

I'm not sure why it matters. Med school professors don't just teach classes. Some never teach any. In fact, after the first year, there is very little classroom work for students. The teaching is, by necessity, happening in a clinical setting. Virtually all professors treat patients in their specialty.

If he's a professor, then he's teaching and/or researching for the university. Otherwise, he'd just be a clinician (like a doctor or a surgeon) in a clinic (hospital).


I think my point was supposed to be about the misleading nature of these lists. And so just like I don't think it makes sense to think of a coach as a public employee, I don't think it made since to think of this surgeon in that way, either.

It's clear you have no understanding about what med school professors do or how med schools operate. If you did, you would understand why including this man on that list is in no way misleading. He is absolutely a public employee, regardless of what you think, and he is highly paid.

He is a public employee. So is a football coach at a public university.


But surely you can see the difference between a public employee who directly affects an additional, non-traditional revenue stream into that public institution and one that does not. You'd be childish if you claimed not to.

(09-28-2015 01:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 06:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yes a salary ... but for doing what? Just being a researcher and professor? Or for also being a clinician in the university clinic (hospital)?

That matters.

I'm not sure why it matters. Med school professors don't just teach classes. Some never teach any. In fact, after the first year, there is very little classroom work for students. The teaching is, by necessity, happening in a clinical setting. Virtually all professors treat patients in their specialty.

If he's a professor, then he's teaching and/or researching for the university. Otherwise, he'd just be a clinician (like a doctor or a surgeon) in a clinic (hospital).


I think my point was supposed to be about the misleading nature of these lists. And so just like I don't think it makes sense to think of a coach as a public employee, I don't think it made since to think of this surgeon in that way, either.

It's clear you have no understanding about what med school professors do or how med schools operate. If you did, you would understand why including this man on that list is in no way misleading. He is absolutely a public employee, regardless of what you think, and he is highly paid.

He is a public employee. So is a football coach at a public university.


But surely you can see the difference between a public employee who directly affects an additional, non-traditional revenue stream into that public institution and one that does not. You'd be childish if you claimed not to.

This will be my last response on this subject. A doctor who teaches at a public medical school is not there to "affect an additional, non-traditional revenue stream". He isn't paid a large salary because he is adding revenue. He is paid a large salary because medical schools have to compete in the marketplace for their faculty, and surgeons in the private sector make very large salaries.

Despite your personal insults, the fact is that you do not know what you are talking about on this subject. It's that simple.

(09-29-2015 03:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 01:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 06:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-25-2015 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-24-2015 03:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'm not sure why it matters. Med school professors don't just teach classes. Some never teach any. In fact, after the first year, there is very little classroom work for students. The teaching is, by necessity, happening in a clinical setting. Virtually all professors treat patients in their specialty.

If he's a professor, then he's teaching and/or researching for the university. Otherwise, he'd just be a clinician (like a doctor or a surgeon) in a clinic (hospital).


I think my point was supposed to be about the misleading nature of these lists. And so just like I don't think it makes sense to think of a coach as a public employee, I don't think it made since to think of this surgeon in that way, either.

It's clear you have no understanding about what med school professors do or how med schools operate. If you did, you would understand why including this man on that list is in no way misleading. He is absolutely a public employee, regardless of what you think, and he is highly paid.

He is a public employee. So is a football coach at a public university.


But surely you can see the difference between a public employee who directly affects an additional, non-traditional revenue stream into that public institution and one that does not. You'd be childish if you claimed not to.

This will be my last response on this subject. A doctor who teaches at a public medical school is not there to "affect an additional, non-traditional revenue stream". He isn't paid a large salary because he is adding revenue. He is paid a large salary because medical schools have to compete in the marketplace for their faculty, and surgeons in the private sector make very large salaries.

Despite your personal insults, the fact is that you do not know what you are talking about on this subject. It's that simple.

It's not my fault that you can't understand the clear and valid point I'm making.

My point is that this guy is special, because he's performing services that bring in additional revenue to the public institution. Just like a football coach does. Whereas a secretary does not.

Thus, people could rightfully say "Why the heck is that public employee secretary making $750k a year?!" but it's less valid to say that about a football coach at a public university or a plastic surgeon at a public hospital.