Va Tech used some misdirection on a few plays for their biggest gains, that was effective because they were trying to oppose the strength of Ohio State's defense, the over-pursuit hurt OSU against Va Tech in some cases. By rolling Hare out, you are just maximizing Ohio State's strength on defense which is their speed. Not only are you maximizing Ohio State's strength, you are maximizing Hare's weakness which some would consider arm strength. The only rational conclusion is that it was done to protect Hare from injury, because it is readily obvious that the chance of a positive play rolling Hare out was 0.00%

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I am not saying this was the case all day,but look at the room in the pocket NIU had, when running short intermediate routes, Hare has about 3 yards from any OSU defender in the pocket.

The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

Part of it is on Hare too, maybe it comes back to a trust issue like someone mentioned, maybe rolling out was also designed to minizmie the turnover potential. Maybe the coaches don't trust Hare's pocket presence and knowing when to give up on a play. The only thing that was clear, is that the offensive philosophy was focused on minimizing risk and not on maximizing production. And please don't think I am saying that is wrong, its debatable, and if you look at the social media world people are divided about 50/50 on whether it was right decision. It did keep NIU close in the game late, but you could argue never with a chance to win.

Has anyone considered the possible negative consequences from more 5 or 7 step drops when you can't block either edge?

I realize that equals coaching scared.

I think more down field passes would have equaled more sacks, fumbles, picks and possibly an injured Drew Hare

If Hare gets hurt we are in BIG trouble

(09-21-2015 06:48 PM)dpgohuskies Wrote:  Has anyone considered the possible negative consequences from more 5 or 7 step drops when you can't block either edge?

I realize that equals coaching scared.

I think more down field passes would have equaled more sacks, fumbles, picks and possibly an injured Drew Hare

If Hare gets hurt we are in BIG trouble

I think that is exactly what went into the decision. It just came down to what you are more satisfied with , 20-13 with no chance to win or going for it all and maybe losing by 2-3 TD's with a very small chance to win. It is not an easy decision by any means given the risk you mention. To me it is almost like buying 1 lottery ticket or 100 lottery tickets, do you buy 1 lottery ticket with little to no cost/risk and have a very very very minute chance to win or do you buy 100 lottery tickets and incur some higher cost/risk with a very very slightly better chance to win. Offensively we bought the 1 dollar lottery ticket.

THEY HAD THE BALL 3 TIMES IN THE LAST 6 MINUTES WITH A CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME. ZERO CHANCE TO WIN? YOU CAN'T SERIOUSLY BE THIS DAMN STUPID

THREE TIMES! IN THE LAST SIX MINUTES!!!

(09-21-2015 06:59 PM)7 Wrote:  THEY HAD THE BALL 3 TIMES IN THE LAST 6 MINUTES WITH A CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME. ZERO CHANCE TO WIN? YOU CAN'T SERIOUSLY BE THIS DAMN STUPID

THREE TIMES! IN THE LAST SIX MINUTES!!!

Did you feel for one second NIU had a chance to even get a first down in the last 5 minutes. Ok I'm done talking about this lol. I think you agree you are just such a contrarian you will never admit it

We all want the best for our team. We all have our own perceptions about how this team should play and perform. Some people think Bougie is our best chance to win but I think Hare is our best player and our receivers are our best weapons. We should beat a lot of teams with Bougie but I think we can only win our toughest games this year with Hare...

(09-21-2015 07:10 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  We all want the best for our team. We all have our own perceptions about how this team should play and perform. Some people think Bougie is our best chance to win but I think Hare is our best player and our receivers are our best weapons. We should beat a lot of teams with Bougie but I think we can only win our toughest games this year with Hare...

I agree Drew and the passing game is our best option on offense.

But you have no chance when you can't block the ends.

Against other opponents I believe we will have more opportunities.

Jon Gruden just said the bubble screens were so four years ago... I of course agree.

(09-21-2015 07:02 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:59 PM)7 Wrote:  THEY HAD THE BALL 3 TIMES IN THE LAST 6 MINUTES WITH A CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME. ZERO CHANCE TO WIN? YOU CAN'T SERIOUSLY BE THIS DAMN STUPID

THREE TIMES! IN THE LAST SIX MINUTES!!!

Did you feel for one second NIU had a chance to even get a first down in the last 5 minutes. Ok I'm done talking about this lol. I think you agree you are just such a contrarian you will never admit it

I can absolutely confirm that he did think that we could get a first down on every single one of those drives. And I'll be damned, it seemed like everyone we were with thought so too.

(09-21-2015 06:48 PM)dpgohuskies Wrote:  Has anyone considered the possible negative consequences from more 5 or 7 step drops when you can't block either edge?

I realize that equals coaching scared.

I think more down field passes would have equaled more sacks, fumbles, picks and possibly an injured Drew Hare

If Hare gets hurt we are in BIG trouble

This. One million times this.

If teams could just throw the ball downfield with ease no matter the team or opponent don't you think teams would? As hard as is it for lesser football minds to realize sometimes teams lose because of a mismatch of talent.

(09-21-2015 07:47 PM)niuguy Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:48 PM)dpgohuskies Wrote:  Has anyone considered the possible negative consequences from more 5 or 7 step drops when you can't block either edge?

I realize that equals coaching scared.

I think more down field passes would have equaled more sacks, fumbles, picks and possibly an injured Drew Hare

If Hare gets hurt we are in BIG trouble

This. One million times this.

If teams could just throw the ball downfield with ease no matter the team or opponent don't you think teams would? As hard as is it for lesser football minds to realize sometimes teams lose because of a mismatch of talent.

+ a million and one times, it was the only way NIU had a chance to win, but the risk would have been very significant. Its a balancing act for sure

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I am not saying this was the case all day,but look at the room in the pocket NIU had, when running short intermediate routes, Hare has about 3 yards from any OSU defender in the pocket.

The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

That's a nice pocket, but we have 7 guys blocking 4. They're dropping 7 very good lb's and defensive backs to cover 3 receivers. No way our guys are going to win too many of the battles if Hare throws it their way.

(09-21-2015 08:13 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I am not saying this was the case all day,but look at the room in the pocket NIU had, when running short intermediate routes, Hare has about 3 yards from any OSU defender in the pocket.

The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

That's a nice pocket, but we have 7 guys blocking 4. They're dropping 7 very good lb's and defensive backs to cover 3 receivers. No way our guys are going to win too many of the battles if Hare throws it their way.

Turner had a 15 yard reception on this play. My only point is anything is better than Hare running to the sideline being chased by 4 Buckeyes, where he might get an opportunity to throw the ball into the ground.

(09-21-2015 08:21 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:13 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I am not saying this was the case all day,but look at the room in the pocket NIU had, when running short intermediate routes, Hare has about 3 yards from any OSU defender in the pocket.

The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

That's a nice pocket, but we have 7 guys blocking 4. They're dropping 7 very good lb's and defensive backs to cover 3 receivers. No way our guys are going to win too many of the battles if Hare throws it their way.

Turner had a 15 yard reception on this play. My only point is anything is better than Hare running to the sideline being chased by 4 Buckeyes, where he might get an opportunity to throw the ball into the ground.

MD you're really confusing me; You say that we have to let Hare stand in the pocket, and then like 3 posts ago you replied and "+1"ed a post about how letting Hare do 5-7 step drops would've gotten him killed..

(09-21-2015 08:23 PM)zdsmith Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:21 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:13 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I am not saying this was the case all day,but look at the room in the pocket NIU had, when running short intermediate routes, Hare has about 3 yards from any OSU defender in the pocket.

The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

That's a nice pocket, but we have 7 guys blocking 4. They're dropping 7 very good lb's and defensive backs to cover 3 receivers. No way our guys are going to win too many of the battles if Hare throws it their way.

Turner had a 15 yard reception on this play. My only point is anything is better than Hare running to the sideline being chased by 4 Buckeyes, where he might get an opportunity to throw the ball into the ground.

MD you're really confusing me; You say that we have to let Hare stand in the pocket, and then like 3 posts ago you replied and "+1"ed a post about how letting Hare do 5-7 step drops would've gotten him killed..

I am not saying he would have gotten killed I am saying there is a greater probability he would have been injured by staying in the pocket. But also a greater probability, that is something greater than 0%, than he would have rolling out. It was a basic risk assessment done, and the cautious side was taken, it didn't get NIU the best chance to win but it kept Hare healthy and limited turnover potential also.

(09-21-2015 08:25 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:23 PM)zdsmith Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:21 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 08:13 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:34 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  The entire 4th quarter was Hare scrambling around.... Come on man

That's a nice pocket, but we have 7 guys blocking 4. They're dropping 7 very good lb's and defensive backs to cover 3 receivers. No way our guys are going to win too many of the battles if Hare throws it their way.

Turner had a 15 yard reception on this play. My only point is anything is better than Hare running to the sideline being chased by 4 Buckeyes, where he might get an opportunity to throw the ball into the ground.

MD you're really confusing me; You say that we have to let Hare stand in the pocket, and then like 3 posts ago you replied and "+1"ed a post about how letting Hare do 5-7 step drops would've gotten him killed..

I am not saying he would have gotten killed I am saying there is a greater probability he would have been injured by staying in the pocket. But also a greater probability, that is something greater than 0%, than he would have rolling out. It was a basic risk assessment done, and the cautious side was taken, it didn't get NIU the best chance to win but it kept Hare healthy and limited turnover potential also.

i don't claim to be knowledgeable, but I know what you're saying - we accomplished ZERO by rolling out. I can understand trying it - but it wasn't working. The only advantage is that if Hare is outside the pocket he can throw it wherever without getting an intentional grounding call. But he also has the disadvantage of only having half the field to throw to which only compounds the tight coverage we were already seeing. The only question is whether he had a better chance to run the ball from outside the pocket as opposed to running up the middle if he had pressure on him in the pocket.

This thread has some gems in it. Guys, we played against one of the best defenses in FBS (if not THE best). Why is anyone confused about why we had a hard time moving the ball against them? The running game was phenomenal considering what it was up against.

(09-21-2015 10:21 PM)Who You Crappin? Wrote:  This thread has some gems in it. Guys, we played against one of the best defenses in FBS (if not THE best). Why is anyone confused about why we had a hard time moving the ball against them? The running game was phenomenal considering what it was up against.

+1

(09-21-2015 08:08 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 07:47 PM)niuguy Wrote:  

(09-21-2015 06:48 PM)dpgohuskies Wrote:  Has anyone considered the possible negative consequences from more 5 or 7 step drops when you can't block either edge?

I realize that equals coaching scared.

I think more down field passes would have equaled more sacks, fumbles, picks and possibly an injured Drew Hare

If Hare gets hurt we are in BIG trouble

This. One million times this.

If teams could just throw the ball downfield with ease no matter the team or opponent don't you think teams would? As hard as is it for lesser football minds to realize sometimes teams lose because of a mismatch of talent.

+ a million and one times, it was the only way NIU had a chance to win, but the risk would have been very significant. Its a balancing act for sure