(09-18-2015 07:14 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 07:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 12:35 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 11:28 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  We need a debate without Trump. Everybody already knows what (little) he stands for. He just detracts from the others who could make their cases better without Donald's frown.

What so like 10 people will watch? Is it going to be on public tv?

I fully admit...He is entertaining.
I have no problem with Trump being there as long as he is polling well. That is his right IMO. I do have a feeling though that at some point he is going to reach saturation with the GOP insiders and they will seek to ostracize, destroy and make him irrelevant. We have seen this type of thing before when it comes to "outsiders". Ron Paul comes to mind. The question is IMO...What is Trump going to do if that happens? He is for sure a wild card in all of this. He is not beholding to the GOP and due to his arrogance,confidence and wealth...He can make people lives a living hell if he wishes.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

Trump has a solid group of supporters. If that happens I don't see them moving over to the eventual nominee (Bush, Kasich, Walker).

Xactly. They'll lose 20% of the vote and gain maybe 5% from the mushy middle.

Its mighty early yet to make any predictions about who will be the nominee. As the field narrows and the candidates get a chance to delve into substance instead of Junior High name calling we will get a better idea of what we are dealing with. At this point I see me again voting third party. Im not impressed thus far.

(09-18-2015 07:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Its mighty early yet to make any predictions about who will be the nominee. As the field narrows and the candidates get a chance to delve into substance instead of Junior High name calling we will get a better idea of what we are dealing with. At this point I see me again voting third party. Im not impressed thus far.

This I am looking forward to. The debate field needs to shrink ASAP.

(09-18-2015 07:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Its mighty early yet to make any predictions about who will be the nominee. As the field narrows and the candidates get a chance to delve into substance instead of Junior High name calling we will get a better idea of what we are dealing with. At this point I see me again voting third party. Im not impressed thus far.

Agree. Looks like Gary Johnson time at this point.

Look at the video of Trump that hit the news this morning when he did not defend Obama against the claims of one of his supporters that Obama is a Muslim. I really don't understand why the media even cares aside from their sensibilities being offended because someone said something bad about Obama...LOL. Just look at how Trump responds to the guy though.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/trump-does...-is-muslim

Here is my concern. Trump answers with something along the lines of "We've heard a lot of bad things, we're looking into these bad things and we have a lot of plans on the table to deal with various things"...

Things? Where is the substance? Seriously, it appears as if Trump is not prepared at all. It's like he's making this stuff up as he goes.

As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

(09-18-2015 08:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

True.

I just think they should take 100% of their resources and put them into a single congressional race. Win one seat, then go from there.

I don't know exactly what the UKIP strategy is over in Britain, but the LP could probably take a page from that as well.

(09-18-2015 08:43 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

True.

I just think they should take 100% of their resources and put them into a single congressional race. Win one seat, then go from there.

I don't know exactly what the UKIP strategy is over in Britain, but the LP could probably take a page from that as well.

UKIP gets a lot of support because it is nationalist and people like nationalism. The LP in the US, or at least most of their candidates as I haven't read their platform, are anti-nationalist. Donald Trump is more inline with the UKIP philosophy than Gary Johnson or Rand Paul. If the LP in the US took up nationalist positions, which would mean ditching open borders and free trade among nations where the playing field is not level, I think they'd be able to gain UKIP-like traction. The ideal of liberty within our borders is appealing to a lot of people. The idea of treating 3rd world nationals as equal to americans within our borders and in international negotiation is not.

(09-18-2015 08:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:43 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

True.

I just think they should take 100% of their resources and put them into a single congressional race. Win one seat, then go from there.

I don't know exactly what the UKIP strategy is over in Britain, but the LP could probably take a page from that as well.

UKIP gets a lot of support because it is nationalist and people like nationalism. The LP in the US, or at least most of their candidates as I haven't read their platform, are anti-nationalist. Donald Trump is more inline with the UKIP philosophy than Gary Johnson or Rand Paul. If the LP in the US took up nationalist positions, which would mean ditching open borders and free trade among nations where the playing field is not level, I think they'd be able to gain UKIP-like traction. The ideal of liberty within our borders is appealing to a lot of people. The idea of treating 3rd world nationals as equal to americans within our borders and in international negotiation is not.

A lot of truth in that.

I'm personally center-left on immigration and a proponent of free trade, but in terms of realpolitik, you're right.

(09-18-2015 08:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 07:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Its mighty early yet to make any predictions about who will be the nominee. As the field narrows and the candidates get a chance to delve into substance instead of Junior High name calling we will get a better idea of what we are dealing with. At this point I see me again voting third party. Im not impressed thus far.

Agree. Looks like Gary Johnson time at this point.

Look at the video of Trump that hit the news this morning when he did not defend Obama against the claims of one of his supporters that Obama is a Muslim. I really don't understand why the media even cares aside from their sensibilities being offended because someone said something bad about Obama...LOL. Just look at how Trump responds to the guy though.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/trump-does...-is-muslim

Here is my concern. Trump answers with something along the lines of "We've heard a lot of bad things, we're looking into these bad things and we have a lot of plans on the table to deal with various things"...

Things? Where is the substance? Seriously, it appears as if Trump is not prepared at all. It's like he's making this stuff up as he goes.

They showed it because it was Trump.

I saw this on the news last night and in Trump's defense , the person speaking was almost incoherent and rambling with no logic (like many post on this board). Trump finally said what is the question?

As far as substance, that is rare for any Republican candidate this year.

(09-18-2015 05:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 07:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 12:35 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 11:28 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  We need a debate without Trump. Everybody already knows what (little) he stands for. He just detracts from the others who could make their cases better without Donald's frown.

What so like 10 people will watch? Is it going to be on public tv?

I fully admit...He is entertaining.
I have no problem with Trump being there as long as he is polling well. That is his right IMO. I do have a feeling though that at some point he is going to reach saturation with the GOP insiders and they will seek to ostracize, destroy and make him irrelevant. We have seen this type of thing before when it comes to "outsiders". Ron Paul comes to mind. The question is IMO...What is Trump going to do if that happens? He is for sure a wild card in all of this. He is not beholding to the GOP and due to his arrogance,confidence and wealth...He can make people lives a living hell if he wishes.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

I know the intellectual libertarians love Ron Paul. I don't even mind him, in fact, I voted for him in the 2012 Virginia Primary. But come on, are you really going to compare him to Trump? Trump has the money, personality, and media control to beat the GOPe. Ron Paul never had a chance.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Just comparing the "outsider" status in regard to the GOP. I would never disrespect The good doctor with any other comparison to Trump. Dr. Paul has more principle, honor and intelligence in his little toe than Trump will obtain the rest of his life.

(09-18-2015 08:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

In my opinion, one problem for the LP is that there is no consistent message & they do not want to win. The perception is they want to run for a government position so they can dissolve government. The GOP on the other hand just says they want to destroy.

Ron Paul was fairly consistent & I agreed with some of his concepts & respected him because he was consistent. There are also a couple of LP posters here who are consistent in their logic. But that is it.

In 2012 I voted for the LP candidate for out non voting delegate to congress only to provide ballot access because I think the Democrats have to much control & I think the Green/Statehood party is to radical. The grapevine says he is a decent guy but when I went to his booth at the 17th Street festival in September of 2012 he would not engage in conversation & just pointed to his brochures that blamed Eleanor Holmes Norton was to blame for the IRAQ war. I'm thinking that BS may fly in KY, but not in my neighborhood. It is like real LP's do not want to win. I voted for him anyway just to give the LP's ballot access & knew he would not win.

(09-18-2015 12:40 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 08:25 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  As someone with libertarian leanings.....I am perpetually disappointed that the LP is ran by a bunch of idiots. Their campaign strategies, both in local and national races, is so remarkably stupid yet they continue to keep doing the same thing every year.

Unfortunately for the LP, they not only have to fight the other parties on the issues in the normal election but also have to fight for access to the ballot box in the first place. Because of that, I think it stretches the resources of the party too thin and results in a more scattershot strategy.

In my opinion, one problem for the LP is that there is no consistent message & they do not want to win. The perception is they want to run for a government position so they can dissolve government. The GOP on the other hand just says they want to destroy.

Ron Paul was fairly consistent & I agreed with some of his concepts & respected him because he was consistent. There are also a couple of LP posters here who are consistent in their logic. But that is it.

In 2012 I voted for the LP candidate for out non voting delegate to congress only to provide ballot access because I think the Democrats have to much control & I think the Green/Statehood party is to radical. The grapevine says he is a decent guy but when I went to his booth at the 17th Street festival in September of 2012 he would not engage in conversation & just pointed to his brochures that blamed Eleanor Holmes Norton was to blame for the IRAQ war. I'm thinking that BS may fly in KY, but not in my neighborhood. It is like real LP's do not want to win. I voted for him anyway just to give the LP's ballot access & knew he would not win.

Anyone under the age of 40 probably has very little knowledge of the LP and its roots. I was a member for 20 years until it nominated Bob Barr. I sent them back my membership card at that point. The LP was founded pretty much as an education tool and has really never been set up to win elections on a national scale.