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ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
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FrancisDrake Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 10:11 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 07:55 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whats sad is that we've created a system that requires athletes to go to school to pursue their careers with the two should not be dependent on one another. If you can run a 4.2, with giant hands and can bench press a bulldozer why the hell should you have to pass statistics to play professional football? Greed on the part of the NCAA and the NFL/NBA have resulted in the current system. The NBA and the NFL should create minor leagues just like MLB instead of free farming the college ranks. It would alleviate a lot of the issues now plaguing college sports.


The sad thing is if They didn't have the chance to go to College. Face it Not that many kids make it into the NFL, NBA, MLB and this at least gives some of these a shot to better Themselves. Some never take advantage of what They have like these Jerks but countless other have moved up and grown from a college experience and led successful careers after sports are done. The use of sports maybe the only way they can afford a chance to get in. 04-cheers

I don't disagree with that at all, but college should be an option, not the rule.
09-15-2015 02:53 PM
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FrancisDrake Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 01:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 11:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:02 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:25 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  The NBA has the D-League. The fact that high school prospects still choose college over it is evidence that the NCAA and college appeal.

The D league was created in 2001 with only 8 teams. the NCAA has a 100 year head start. If/when D league salaries are at a competitive level, and prospects know that the D league offers a legitimate chance to make it to the NBA, it will take off.

Exactly this and Mark Cuban has eluded to it as well. The NBA hasn't invested enough in the NBDL for it to really attract athletes. If it were viewed as a viable route to the NBA and they were giving signing bonuses and annual salaries comparable to MiLB you'd see a lot of top athletes go that route vs college.

And to your previous point regarding fan interest in college I too don't believe general interest would wain. College, even as it is today, is less about the quality of play and athlete and more about tradition, affiliation, pride, match ups...

From what I've read, D League and Minor League salaries are comparable; about 25K

Which is to say, those salaries are chump change, and an athlete could live more comfortably on what he gets for being a scholarship player at a D-I school.

Personally, I think 8 teams in a DL is enough. That's close to 100 players in a league that drafts 60 players a year. If they paid all of them twice what they are now making and split the cost among all the NBA franchises, that comes out to about $160K a year each. Some of their players blow that much at strip clubs in a year.

The problem with a D-league is that it can do a better job developing player skills, but it doesn't do anything at all to develop stars. That's what the NCAA does for them, and for free. And even if the NBA were OK if the NCAA stopped producing stars, the NCAA and its member schools wouldn't be OK with that. They would just have to change their rules so they could compete with D-league salaries.

MLB entices its players with signing bonus, though they dont have to compete against full scholarships like the NFL and NBA would. I don't think the NCAA would and its members would change. I think most schools would be fine reigning in sports and glad to be rid of some of the scandal and pressure the current model creates. College is still going to have its stars and its draw bc its built in allegiances.
09-15-2015 02:57 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 10:11 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 07:55 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whats sad is that we've created a system that requires athletes to go to school to pursue their careers with the two should not be dependent on one another. If you can run a 4.2, with giant hands and can bench press a bulldozer why the hell should you have to pass statistics to play professional football? Greed on the part of the NCAA and the NFL/NBA have resulted in the current system. The NBA and the NFL should create minor leagues just like MLB instead of free farming the college ranks. It would alleviate a lot of the issues now plaguing college sports.


The sad thing is if They didn't have the chance to go to College. Face it Not that many kids make it into the NFL, NBA, MLB and this at least gives some of these a shot to better Themselves. Some never take advantage of what They have like these Jerks but countless other have moved up and grown from a college experience and led successful careers after sports are done. The use of sports maybe the only way they can afford a chance to get in. 04-cheers

The problem with this statement is there are alternative outlets that they can use to build a good life for themselves that does not involve a 4 year degree. Virtually none of these kids are going into the STEM majors now. I'm not saying none are, because there are some very bright CFB players. However, the significant majority of them are not getting the high powered degrees that mean anything. I've argued this point before, but recruiters sell an unrealistic dream to these kids, i.e. come to our school and learn the skills needed for the NFL. Reality as you pointed out is that the majority don't make it.

Kids who have athletic ability but not the skills to pursue a 4 year degree should be doing one of 2 things: 1) Going to a trade school to obtain a specialized skill to make above minimum wage or 2) Go directly into a minor league that allows them to more fully concentrate on learning their athletic skills without the distractions of academic responsibilities. Most students who can only get into school via athletic scholarships for the revenue sports are ill served by going there in the first place. You don't hear much about this being an issue with the nonrevenue sports.
09-15-2015 03:16 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 03:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:11 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 07:55 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whats sad is that we've created a system that requires athletes to go to school to pursue their careers with the two should not be dependent on one another. If you can run a 4.2, with giant hands and can bench press a bulldozer why the hell should you have to pass statistics to play professional football? Greed on the part of the NCAA and the NFL/NBA have resulted in the current system. The NBA and the NFL should create minor leagues just like MLB instead of free farming the college ranks. It would alleviate a lot of the issues now plaguing college sports.


The sad thing is if They didn't have the chance to go to College. Face it Not that many kids make it into the NFL, NBA, MLB and this at least gives some of these a shot to better Themselves. Some never take advantage of what They have like these Jerks but countless other have moved up and grown from a college experience and led successful careers after sports are done. The use of sports maybe the only way they can afford a chance to get in. 04-cheers

The problem with this statement is there are alternative outlets that they can use to build a good life for themselves that does not involve a 4 year degree. Virtually none of these kids are going into the STEM majors now. I'm not saying none are, because there are some very bright CFB players. However, the significant majority of them are not getting the high powered degrees that mean anything. I've argued this point before, but recruiters sell an unrealistic dream to these kids, i.e. come to our school and learn the skills needed for the NFL. Reality as you pointed out is that the majority don't make it.

Kids who have athletic ability but not the skills to pursue a 4 year degree should be doing one of 2 things: 1) Going to a trade school to obtain a specialized skill to make above minimum wage or 2) Go directly into a minor league that allows them to more fully concentrate on learning their athletic skills without the distractions of academic responsibilities. Most students who can only get into school via athletic scholarships for the revenue sports are ill served by going there in the first place. You don't hear much about this being an issue with the nonrevenue sports.

To back up your point:
1) In non-revs, the athlete may not have gotten into School X without their athletic talents, but they probably would have gotten into Y and Z. So essentially while they're college student material, their athletic abilities helped them into a better school. Nothing wrong with that as these types will hack it fine and gain an education.
2) In non-revs, the athlete is a student and an athlete in a true sense. So the motivation here is dual-purpose. My stepcousin was a star for Rutgers Women's Soccer, but thanks (a positive way to look at it) to medical redshirts left with not only her BA but also a Masters at no cost to her or her parents.
09-15-2015 03:28 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #45
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 02:36 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 02:32 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 02:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 11:56 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:32 AM)connecticutguy Wrote:  It's clear the Big 10 should have taken UConn instead of Rutgers. They can still add UConn so if Rutgers has to drop out of the Big because of scandals, the Big has a solid university as a member.

I still say they should have taken another P5 or waited... couple Maryland with another ACC school or a Big 12 school.

I could go on and on about Rutgers vs. UConn. Rutgers fans seem to be a bit delusional about their program and its interest (especially in NYC). UConn football is pretty low now... (throw Syracuse in there as there's more Syracuse interest in NYC than there is Rutgers interest) but Syracuse has proven they can win a Big East and UConn has proven they can rise to the level of their league.

here it is .. one more time. I have posed this question many times and never even gotten a response.

Going to put it in bold.

Rutgers had over a decade in the best recruiting area in the country to become competitive in basketball in a league comparable to the Big 10 (in basketball) and they were the second worst team in the Big East over that period against a lot of catholic/non-public schools with a lot fewer resources. No NCAA appearances. Only one season in the top half of the league. Why am I to think that Rutgers is ever going to be good at football (when it's harder to build a football program than a basketball one) in a great football league like the Big 10 when they never were competitive in basketball in the Big East?


I don't know. I think this is a it of an unfair commentary. As much as I find it hard to defend RU - as their fans would never do the same for my alma mater - fair is fair.

Right now, the RU AD is going through some turmoil. But to infer that this will be the permanent state of things is unfair...IMO. Just as it would be unfair to say, for example, that Uconn FB will never be any good based on a limited sample (5 winning seasons in 11 seasons in an FBS conference). It's just not fair.

As far as RU fans being delusional. Yup, they probably are. So aren't BC, SU, Uconn, Pitt, UL, fans...etc...etc. It's the nature of being fans. It's what we do. (If you doubt me, just look at your own Uconn board and see the reaction of many fans to 5-point wins at home over an FCS team and an historically weak Service Academy team.). Again, WE ALL are guilty of this!

Finally, to conflate the current spate of bad news coming out of the RU AD with a general argument that they should not have been invited to the BiG smacks of agenda-driven self interest, IMO. EVERY school at one time or another has had its share of embarrassing incidents, a fact which we like to conveniently forget when another school's ox is being gored. We trip all over ourselves to voice various rationales when these things happen to our schools, but we become a virtual "hanging judge Landis" when it happens to some other school - especially if it fits our narrow agendas.

Just my 2 cents.


A BC and an ND fan defending Rutgers.....strange times we live in, bros.

Strange time indeed, Terry. Strange times. :)

I was going to chime in to defend Rutgers as well, but that would just be tooo weird
09-15-2015 03:33 PM
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Okielite Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 12:24 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:58 AM)Okielite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:27 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:18 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Rutgers AD is a dumpster fire.

Almost 50% subsidy, by far the worst in the p-5. Terrible fan support. No accomplishments. No financial support.

I wonder how much longer the B1G can get the state of New Jersey to pay for content they have no interest in. When that comes to an end Rutgers will be the worst investment the B1G has ever made as all that will be left is a underachieving welfare AD with few accomplishments.
Terrible fan support? Have you been to a Rutgers football game in the last 10 years? Have you not seen how many of the highest rated college football games in the NYC DMA have involved Rutgers?

50% subsidy in one year where we had buyouts and other one-time charges galore. Our subsidy is still high if you count the student fees in lieu of tickets which other schools don't, but our accounting folks do. However, in a typical year its not that high. We also used to have our own Dining Services handle concessions at Rutgers sporting venues and the profit they paid back to the athletic department was considered a subsidy. If we had used an outside concessions company as we do now that would just be considered regular revenue. Put it this way our subsidy while high, is not even anywhere close to 50% in a normal year.

Yes terrible fan support. WIth all the millions of people in the state you struggle to have even respectable attendance. 9 million people in the state and your last 2 games were 47k and 46k attendance. So clearly you have poor fan support.


TV ratings are terrible. This is from 2013 and puts you at #76 in the country just ahead of Buffalo and San Jose St.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/1...-final-sec
76 Rutgers 594,222 0.4 9
77 Buffalo 585,800 0.4 5
78 San Jose State 569,750 0.4 4

Your subsidy for 2013 was actually higher. Went from 36 million to 47 million. Before that is hovered around 30 million. LOL. Nobody else in the P-5 is even close to that.

Rutgers also lacks p-5 financial support form fans. Ticket sales and donations hover around 10 million each where most p-5 schools. Even schools like ISU make about 10 million more per year off of fans for ticket sales and donations.

And as far as accomplishments. Well there are few. Actually 1. Fencing in 1949. LMAO. What a POS AD you have.

National team championships[edit]
As of July 2, 2014, Rutgers has won 1 NCAA national championship:[50]

Men's (1)
Fencing (1): 1949

Let me start by saying I've never disputed the lack of accomplishments. You're inferring I have.

Second, fan support is tough to garner when you're historically horrible. If you snapshot the last 15 years you'd see a massive increase in attendance.

$30 million yes, but as I've stated prior if Rutgers used the accounting other schools did we're talking closer to half that number. And again I've stated that's still unacceptable long term and not good, but its not the larger crisis/scandal its made out to be. And you're pulling the $47 million from the year we had buy outs galore. The $36 million from a year where we received $0 in conference revenue.

Lastly, ratings you pull the 2013 ratings where we finished 6-7 in the AAC. Let's see a trend line for say 10 years. I'm finishing up an MBA with a concentration in analytics, the larger statistics of a situation matter. Not random numbers as you're pulling out.

Feel free to point out any TV rating numbers that make Rutgers look better than what I showed. I looked at the TV ratings and they suck. All the data I showed you is factual. You don't like it and can make excuses but Rutgers has a crap fanbase and AD.

Here is the latest.

N/A 97K 12:00 PM Norfolk State
Rutgers ESPNEWS

And last year. Most weeks Rutgers is not even listed. And when Rutgers is listed it's about the opposing teams fans, not Rutgers fans.
0.1 178K 3:30 PM Rutgers/Maryland ESPNU
09-15-2015 04:12 PM
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chrisRU Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 12:24 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:58 AM)Okielite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:27 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:18 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Rutgers AD is a dumpster fire.

Almost 50% subsidy, by far the worst in the p-5. Terrible fan support. No accomplishments. No financial support.

I wonder how much longer the B1G can get the state of New Jersey to pay for content they have no interest in. When that comes to an end Rutgers will be the worst investment the B1G has ever made as all that will be left is a underachieving welfare AD with few accomplishments.
Terrible fan support? Have you been to a Rutgers football game in the last 10 years? Have you not seen how many of the highest rated college football games in the NYC DMA have involved Rutgers?

50% subsidy in one year where we had buyouts and other one-time charges galore. Our subsidy is still high if you count the student fees in lieu of tickets which other schools don't, but our accounting folks do. However, in a typical year its not that high. We also used to have our own Dining Services handle concessions at Rutgers sporting venues and the profit they paid back to the athletic department was considered a subsidy. If we had used an outside concessions company as we do now that would just be considered regular revenue. Put it this way our subsidy while high, is not even anywhere close to 50% in a normal year.

Yes terrible fan support. WIth all the millions of people in the state you struggle to have even respectable attendance. 9 million people in the state and your last 2 games were 47k and 46k attendance. So clearly you have poor fan support.


TV ratings are terrible. This is from 2013 and puts you at #76 in the country just ahead of Buffalo and San Jose St.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/1...-final-sec
76 Rutgers 594,222 0.4 9
77 Buffalo 585,800 0.4 5
78 San Jose State 569,750 0.4 4

Your subsidy for 2013 was actually higher. Went from 36 million to 47 million. Before that is hovered around 30 million. LOL. Nobody else in the P-5 is even close to that.

Rutgers also lacks p-5 financial support form fans. Ticket sales and donations hover around 10 million each where most p-5 schools. Even schools like ISU make about 10 million more per year off of fans for ticket sales and donations.

And as far as accomplishments. Well there are few. Actually 1. Fencing in 1949. LMAO. What a POS AD you have.

National team championships[edit]
As of July 2, 2014, Rutgers has won 1 NCAA national championship:[50]

Men's (1)
Fencing (1): 1949

Let me start by saying I've never disputed the lack of accomplishments. You're inferring I have.

Second, fan support is tough to garner when you're historically horrible. If you snapshot the last 15 years you'd see a massive increase in attendance.

$30 million yes, but as I've stated prior if Rutgers used the accounting other schools did we're talking closer to half that number. And again I've stated that's still unacceptable long term and not good, but its not the larger crisis/scandal its made out to be. And you're pulling the $47 million from the year we had buy outs galore. The $36 million from a year where we received $0 in conference revenue.

Lastly, ratings you pull the 2013 ratings where we finished 6-7 in the AAC. Let's see a trend line for say 10 years. I'm finishing up an MBA with a concentration in analytics, the larger statistics of a situation matter. Not random numbers as you're pulling out.

Regarding Attendance. Rutgers attendance from 2000 to 2014 has increased by 106%. Keep in mind ND visited in 2000 and if you don't account for that game, it's a 136% increase.

Rutgers more than doubled their rating last year (0.4 to 0.9).

http://texags.com/s/15550/infographic-20...tv-ratings
09-15-2015 04:20 PM
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jskwrite Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 04:20 PM)chrisRU Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 12:24 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:58 AM)Okielite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:27 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:18 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Rutgers AD is a dumpster fire.

Almost 50% subsidy, by far the worst in the p-5. Terrible fan support. No accomplishments. No financial support.

I wonder how much longer the B1G can get the state of New Jersey to pay for content they have no interest in. When that comes to an end Rutgers will be the worst investment the B1G has ever made as all that will be left is a underachieving welfare AD with few accomplishments.
Terrible fan support? Have you been to a Rutgers football game in the last 10 years? Have you not seen how many of the highest rated college football games in the NYC DMA have involved Rutgers?

50% subsidy in one year where we had buyouts and other one-time charges galore. Our subsidy is still high if you count the student fees in lieu of tickets which other schools don't, but our accounting folks do. However, in a typical year its not that high. We also used to have our own Dining Services handle concessions at Rutgers sporting venues and the profit they paid back to the athletic department was considered a subsidy. If we had used an outside concessions company as we do now that would just be considered regular revenue. Put it this way our subsidy while high, is not even anywhere close to 50% in a normal year.

Yes terrible fan support. WIth all the millions of people in the state you struggle to have even respectable attendance. 9 million people in the state and your last 2 games were 47k and 46k attendance. So clearly you have poor fan support.


TV ratings are terrible. This is from 2013 and puts you at #76 in the country just ahead of Buffalo and San Jose St.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/1...-final-sec
76 Rutgers 594,222 0.4 9
77 Buffalo 585,800 0.4 5
78 San Jose State 569,750 0.4 4

Your subsidy for 2013 was actually higher. Went from 36 million to 47 million. Before that is hovered around 30 million. LOL. Nobody else in the P-5 is even close to that.

Rutgers also lacks p-5 financial support form fans. Ticket sales and donations hover around 10 million each where most p-5 schools. Even schools like ISU make about 10 million more per year off of fans for ticket sales and donations.

And as far as accomplishments. Well there are few. Actually 1. Fencing in 1949. LMAO. What a POS AD you have.

National team championships[edit]
As of July 2, 2014, Rutgers has won 1 NCAA national championship:[50]

Men's (1)
Fencing (1): 1949

Let me start by saying I've never disputed the lack of accomplishments. You're inferring I have.

Second, fan support is tough to garner when you're historically horrible. If you snapshot the last 15 years you'd see a massive increase in attendance.

$30 million yes, but as I've stated prior if Rutgers used the accounting other schools did we're talking closer to half that number. And again I've stated that's still unacceptable long term and not good, but its not the larger crisis/scandal its made out to be. And you're pulling the $47 million from the year we had buy outs galore. The $36 million from a year where we received $0 in conference revenue.

Lastly, ratings you pull the 2013 ratings where we finished 6-7 in the AAC. Let's see a trend line for say 10 years. I'm finishing up an MBA with a concentration in analytics, the larger statistics of a situation matter. Not random numbers as you're pulling out.

Regarding Attendance. Rutgers attendance from 2000 to 2014 has increased by 106%. Keep in mind ND visited in 2000 and if you don't account for that game, it's a 136% increase.

Rutgers more than doubled their rating last year (0.4 to 0.9).

http://texags.com/s/15550/infographic-20...tv-ratings

I think Rutgers is never going to look strong on TV ratings because their fan base is part of a smaller subset of a metropolitan area, unlike a BC, UConn or Syracuse. If you could slice off NJ from the NJ/NYC area they would probably have a better share... regardless this just proves the point I make about Rutgers not being NYC's team.

If you took Rutgers home opponents and put them in Lincoln Financial against Temple, they'd draw better. Case in point, Penn State week one. UConn had to put more seats into their stadium for the Michigan game.
09-15-2015 04:53 PM
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jskwrite Offline
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Post: #49
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 02:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 11:56 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:32 AM)connecticutguy Wrote:  It's clear the Big 10 should have taken UConn instead of Rutgers. They can still add UConn so if Rutgers has to drop out of the Big because of scandals, the Big has a solid university as a member.

I still say they should have taken another P5 or waited... couple Maryland with another ACC school or a Big 12 school.

I could go on and on about Rutgers vs. UConn. Rutgers fans seem to be a bit delusional about their program and its interest (especially in NYC). UConn football is pretty low now... (throw Syracuse in there as there's more Syracuse interest in NYC than there is Rutgers interest) but Syracuse has proven they can win a Big East and UConn has proven they can rise to the level of their league.

here it is .. one more time. I have posed this question many times and never even gotten a response.

Going to put it in bold.

Rutgers had over a decade in the best recruiting area in the country to become competitive in basketball in a league comparable to the Big 10 (in basketball) and they were the second worst team in the Big East over that period against a lot of catholic/non-public schools with a lot fewer resources. No NCAA appearances. Only one season in the top half of the league. Why am I to think that Rutgers is ever going to be good at football (when it's harder to build a football program than a basketball one) in a great football league like the Big 10 when they never were competitive in basketball in the Big East?


I don't know. I think this is a it of an unfair commentary. As much as I find it hard to defend RU - as their fans would never do the same for my alma mater - fair is fair.

Right now, the RU AD is going through some turmoil. But to infer that this will be the permanent state of things is unfair...IMO. Just as it would be unfair to say, for example, that Uconn FB will never be any good based on a limited sample (5 winning seasons in 11 seasons in an FBS conference). It's just not fair.

As far as RU fans being delusional. Yup, they probably are. So aren't BC, SU, Uconn, Pitt, UL, fans...etc...etc. It's the nature of being fans. It's what we do. (If you doubt me, just look at your own Uconn board and see the reaction of many fans to 5-point wins at home over an FCS team and an historically weak Service Academy team.). Again, WE ALL are guilty of this!

Finally, to conflate the current spate of bad news coming out of the RU AD with a general argument that they should not have been invited to the BiG smacks of agenda-driven self interest, IMO. EVERY school at one time or another has had its share of embarrassing incidents, a fact which we like to conveniently forget when another school's ox is being gored. We trip all over ourselves to voice various rationales when these things happen to our schools, but we become a virtual "hanging judge Landis" when it happens to some other school - especially if it fits our narrow agendas.

Just my 2 cents.

Every answer (even from a BC fan!) about this I've ever seen has included UConn. Why? I'm on record here saying the Big 10 should have waited for a Big 12 or ACC team rather than add Rutgers or UConn.

This is about Rutgers, not UConn, not Syracuse or BC. Rutgers was not a top football team in the Big East. West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati were the teams winning Big East titles, not Rutgers, in those final years and pre-Schiano Rutgers was horrible (just throwing that in there because I always hear the "they had one good coach" line... who's Rutgers other good coach since the 70s?)

As far as UConn fans being delusional.... and all fans.. you are right of course. I think UConn fans have pretty lofty expectations. Can you blame them? They went from I-AA to competitive in a P6, even winning the conference once - in less than a decade. And then there is basketball. They've won 4 out of the last 20 basketball titles. There are a slew of Huskies in the NBA, MLB and NFL... UConn fans who are under the age of 40 have never seen UConn go through years and years of struggles in any sport. So they have high expectations. Every UConn fan will look at their program, think "we went from nothing to NCAA titles in basketball in the Big East when it was the best league in college basketball".. "went from I-AA to playing in bowl games 4 of 5 years, including winning the league"... UConn fans have seen UConn programs grow very successfully. There is no reason to think you wouldn't get a good UConn football team in 5 years if they were in the Big 10. I'd rather play for Diaco than Flood. I'd rather be in Storrs than Piscataway. UConn and Rutgers weren't that different when they were in the Big East. Rutgers had a better recruiter in Schiano and Edsall was good at winning with lesser talent.

But like I said, the Big 10 shouldn't be bringing in a team to be win in 5 years.. they should be winning right away. Rutgers is in major trouble this year. They'll likely have a new coach next year and new coaches in the Big 10 not named "Urban" tend to struggle immensely.
09-15-2015 05:07 PM
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Okielite Offline
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Post: #50
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 04:20 PM)chrisRU Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 12:24 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:58 AM)Okielite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:27 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 09:18 AM)Okielite Wrote:  Rutgers AD is a dumpster fire.

Almost 50% subsidy, by far the worst in the p-5. Terrible fan support. No accomplishments. No financial support.

I wonder how much longer the B1G can get the state of New Jersey to pay for content they have no interest in. When that comes to an end Rutgers will be the worst investment the B1G has ever made as all that will be left is a underachieving welfare AD with few accomplishments.
Terrible fan support? Have you been to a Rutgers football game in the last 10 years? Have you not seen how many of the highest rated college football games in the NYC DMA have involved Rutgers?

50% subsidy in one year where we had buyouts and other one-time charges galore. Our subsidy is still high if you count the student fees in lieu of tickets which other schools don't, but our accounting folks do. However, in a typical year its not that high. We also used to have our own Dining Services handle concessions at Rutgers sporting venues and the profit they paid back to the athletic department was considered a subsidy. If we had used an outside concessions company as we do now that would just be considered regular revenue. Put it this way our subsidy while high, is not even anywhere close to 50% in a normal year.

Yes terrible fan support. WIth all the millions of people in the state you struggle to have even respectable attendance. 9 million people in the state and your last 2 games were 47k and 46k attendance. So clearly you have poor fan support.


TV ratings are terrible. This is from 2013 and puts you at #76 in the country just ahead of Buffalo and San Jose St.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/1...-final-sec
76 Rutgers 594,222 0.4 9
77 Buffalo 585,800 0.4 5
78 San Jose State 569,750 0.4 4

Your subsidy for 2013 was actually higher. Went from 36 million to 47 million. Before that is hovered around 30 million. LOL. Nobody else in the P-5 is even close to that.

Rutgers also lacks p-5 financial support form fans. Ticket sales and donations hover around 10 million each where most p-5 schools. Even schools like ISU make about 10 million more per year off of fans for ticket sales and donations.

And as far as accomplishments. Well there are few. Actually 1. Fencing in 1949. LMAO. What a POS AD you have.

National team championships[edit]
As of July 2, 2014, Rutgers has won 1 NCAA national championship:[50]

Men's (1)
Fencing (1): 1949

Let me start by saying I've never disputed the lack of accomplishments. You're inferring I have.

Second, fan support is tough to garner when you're historically horrible. If you snapshot the last 15 years you'd see a massive increase in attendance.

$30 million yes, but as I've stated prior if Rutgers used the accounting other schools did we're talking closer to half that number. And again I've stated that's still unacceptable long term and not good, but its not the larger crisis/scandal its made out to be. And you're pulling the $47 million from the year we had buy outs galore. The $36 million from a year where we received $0 in conference revenue.

Lastly, ratings you pull the 2013 ratings where we finished 6-7 in the AAC. Let's see a trend line for say 10 years. I'm finishing up an MBA with a concentration in analytics, the larger statistics of a situation matter. Not random numbers as you're pulling out.

Regarding Attendance. Rutgers attendance from 2000 to 2014 has increased by 106%. Keep in mind ND visited in 2000 and if you don't account for that game, it's a 136% increase.

Rutgers more than doubled their rating last year (0.4 to 0.9).

http://texags.com/s/15550/infographic-20...tv-ratings
Rutgers TV ratings increase is due to opposing teams, not what Rutgers actually draws for a TV audience.

Rutgers attendance and TV ratings are terrible for being in such a highly populated state. The bottom line is New Jersey does not pay attention to Rutgers football in person or on TV. That is why Rutgers has such a poorly run AD that relies on a welfare check to operate and even then accomplishes little to nothing.

If you are happy with 47k in a state with 8 million people so be it. To put that in perspective the state of Iowa with only 3 million people puts about 130k people in the stands to watch FBS football on Saturdays.

College football fan per capita is downright terrible in New Jersey. Like all of New England. There are lots of wealthy people, but few care about college football.

The B1G messed up by not choosing UConn IMO. UConn at least has potential.
09-15-2015 05:59 PM
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Eagle78 Offline
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Post: #51
ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on...
(09-15-2015 05:07 PM)jskwrite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 02:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 11:56 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:32 AM)connecticutguy Wrote:  It's clear the Big 10 should have taken UConn instead of Rutgers. They can still add UConn so if Rutgers has to drop out of the Big because of scandals, the Big has a solid university as a member.

I still say they should have taken another P5 or waited... couple Maryland with another ACC school or a Big 12 school.

I could go on and on about Rutgers vs. UConn. Rutgers fans seem to be a bit delusional about their program and its interest (especially in NYC). UConn football is pretty low now... (throw Syracuse in there as there's more Syracuse interest in NYC than there is Rutgers interest) but Syracuse has proven they can win a Big East and UConn has proven they can rise to the level of their league.

here it is .. one more time. I have posed this question many times and never even gotten a response.

Going to put it in bold.

Rutgers had over a decade in the best recruiting area in the country to become competitive in basketball in a league comparable to the Big 10 (in basketball) and they were the second worst team in the Big East over that period against a lot of catholic/non-public schools with a lot fewer resources. No NCAA appearances. Only one season in the top half of the league. Why am I to think that Rutgers is ever going to be good at football (when it's harder to build a football program than a basketball one) in a great football league like the Big 10 when they never were competitive in basketball in the Big East?


I don't know. I think this is a it of an unfair commentary. As much as I find it hard to defend RU - as their fans would never do the same for my alma mater - fair is fair.

Right now, the RU AD is going through some turmoil. But to infer that this will be the permanent state of things is unfair...IMO. Just as it would be unfair to say, for example, that Uconn FB will never be any good based on a limited sample (5 winning seasons in 11 seasons in an FBS conference). It's just not fair.

As far as RU fans being delusional. Yup, they probably are. So aren't BC, SU, Uconn, Pitt, UL, fans...etc...etc. It's the nature of being fans. It's what we do. (If you doubt me, just look at your own Uconn board and see the reaction of many fans to 5-point wins at home over an FCS team and an historically weak Service Academy team.). Again, WE ALL are guilty of this!

Finally, to conflate the current spate of bad news coming out of the RU AD with a general argument that they should not have been invited to the BiG smacks of agenda-driven self interest, IMO. EVERY school at one time or another has had its share of embarrassing incidents, a fact which we like to conveniently forget when another school's ox is being gored. We trip all over ourselves to voice various rationales when these things happen to our schools, but we become a virtual "hanging judge Landis" when it happens to some other school - especially if it fits our narrow agendas.

Just my 2 cents.

Every answer (even from a BC fan!) about this I've ever seen has included UConn. Why? I'm on record here saying the Big 10 should have waited for a Big 12 or ACC team rather than add Rutgers or UConn.

This is about Rutgers, not UConn, not Syracuse or BC. Rutgers was not a top football team in the Big East. West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati were the teams winning Big East titles, not Rutgers, in those final years and pre-Schiano Rutgers was horrible (just throwing that in there because I always hear the "they had one good coach" line... who's Rutgers other good coach since the 70s?)

As far as UConn fans being delusional.... and all fans.. you are right of course. I think UConn fans have pretty lofty expectations. Can you blame them? They went from I-AA to competitive in a P6, even winning the conference once - in less than a decade. And then there is basketball. They've won 4 out of the last 20 basketball titles. There are a slew of Huskies in the NBA, MLB and NFL... UConn fans who are under the age of 40 have never seen UConn go through years and years of struggles in any sport. So they have high expectations. Every UConn fan will look at their program, think "we went from nothing to NCAA titles in basketball in the Big East when it was the best league in college basketball".. "went from I-AA to playing in bowl games 4 of 5 years, including winning the league"... UConn fans have seen UConn programs grow very successfully. There is no reason to think you wouldn't get a good UConn football team in 5 years if they were in the Big 10. I'd rather play for Diaco than Flood. I'd rather be in Storrs than Piscataway. UConn and Rutgers weren't that different when they were in the Big East. Rutgers had a better recruiter in Schiano and Edsall was good at winning with lesser talent.

But like I said, the Big 10 shouldn't be bringing in a team to be win in 5 years.. they should be winning right away. Rutgers is in major trouble this year. They'll likely have a new coach next year and new coaches in the Big 10 not named "Urban" tend to struggle immensely.

I am not sure you completely got what I was trying to say. I wasn't singling out Uconn. I took great pains to say we as fans are ALL guilty of the same hubris at various times. Yes, I used two specific Uconn examples, but only because I was replying to you - a Uconn fan - so the examples would have more relevance to you. Had you been an SU, Pitt, or yes, even a BC fan, I would have used examples from those schools. Lord knows, we all have the same hubris!!

My issue with your OP were your comments in red. Specifically, your statement that Rutgers will likely not be successful in FB based on their past. You asked for a response and I am giving you one. :)

Frankly, if you look at RU, their FB on-the-field success, while not spectacular, has been as good, if not better, than Uconn's - especially the last few years. As I said, ALL of our opinions are driven by agendas. With all due respect, I think here is an example of yours:

RU was on a definite rise when GS was coaching them, including having a ranked team one year. They have stumbled a bit with the coaching change - and for this you proclaim that they don't have a bright future in FB. Interestingly, at roughly the same time, Uconn had a coaching change that has resulted in Uconn descending far below Rutgers - yet, in Uconn's situation, you guys chalk it up to a blip due to a coaching change, that will be rectified with this new coach, or maybe the next. As a fan, that's certainly a good expectation, and might very well be accurate, but you gotta be consistent to be fair - Rutgers can also improve the same way.

Look, this is one of those times that as a partisan fan, I DON'T have an agenda. I am only saying that all of us apply differing standards to very similar situations based on our biases and agendas. ALL OF US! (Rutgers fans themselves are currently doing this, IMO. Just look at the responses on their board to the most recent arrest. Many of their fans are contorting themselves all over the place to "put into context", or give the accused every benefit of the doubt. However, when similar things happen involving athletes at other schools, their responses are typically FAR less charitable! This happens with every other fanbase, IMO.)

(I understand that you might counter by saying that because Uconn has been elite in BB in a talent rich region, that this will ultimately translate to FB success in a far less talent rich region. Maybe it will. But it's far from certain. There are plenty of elite BB programs that have never risen to be anything but pedestrian FB programs - Duke and UNC are but two examples, IMO.)

All I am doing is shining a light on all of our collective hypocrisies. That's all. Nothing else. Again, I am responding to your OP because, well, you asked for a response. :)

Just my 2 cents.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2015 06:36 PM by Eagle78.)
09-15-2015 06:05 PM
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Groo Offline
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Post: #52
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
10% is a nice start. Here's hoping that another 85% get arrested so Kansas has a shot at a win on the 26th.
09-15-2015 06:08 PM
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Okielite Offline
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Post: #53
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 06:08 PM)Groo Wrote:  10% is a nice start. Here's hoping that another 85% get arrested so Kansas has a shot at a win on the 26th.

LOL. Man I hope KU can get a win this season.
09-15-2015 06:42 PM
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Post: #54
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 02:39 PM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 02:32 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 02:20 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 11:56 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 10:32 AM)connecticutguy Wrote:  It's clear the Big 10 should have taken UConn instead of Rutgers. They can still add UConn so if Rutgers has to drop out of the Big because of scandals, the Big has a solid university as a member.

I still say they should have taken another P5 or waited... couple Maryland with another ACC school or a Big 12 school.

I could go on and on about Rutgers vs. UConn. Rutgers fans seem to be a bit delusional about their program and its interest (especially in NYC). UConn football is pretty low now... (throw Syracuse in there as there's more Syracuse interest in NYC than there is Rutgers interest) but Syracuse has proven they can win a Big East and UConn has proven they can rise to the level of their league.

here it is .. one more time. I have posed this question many times and never even gotten a response.

Going to put it in bold.

Rutgers had over a decade in the best recruiting area in the country to become competitive in basketball in a league comparable to the Big 10 (in basketball) and they were the second worst team in the Big East over that period against a lot of catholic/non-public schools with a lot fewer resources. No NCAA appearances. Only one season in the top half of the league. Why am I to think that Rutgers is ever going to be good at football (when it's harder to build a football program than a basketball one) in a great football league like the Big 10 when they never were competitive in basketball in the Big East?


I don't know. I think this is a it of an unfair commentary. As much as I find it hard to defend RU - as their fans would never do the same for my alma mater - fair is fair.

Right now, the RU AD is going through some turmoil. But to infer that this will be the permanent state of things is unfair...IMO. Just as it would be unfair to say, for example, that Uconn FB will never be any good based on a limited sample (5 winning seasons in 11 seasons in an FBS conference). It's just not fair.

As far as RU fans being delusional. Yup, they probably are. So aren't BC, SU, Uconn, Pitt, UL, fans...etc...etc. It's the nature of being fans. It's what we do. (If you doubt me, just look at your own Uconn board and see the reaction of many fans to 5-point wins at home over an FCS team and an historically weak Service Academy team.). Again, WE ALL are guilty of this!

Finally, to conflate the current spate of bad news coming out of the RU AD with a general argument that they should not have been invited to the BiG smacks of agenda-driven self interest, IMO. EVERY school at one time or another has had its share of embarrassing incidents, a fact which we like to conveniently forget when another school's ox is being gored. We trip all over ourselves to voice various rationales when these things happen to our schools, but we become a virtual "hanging judge Landis" when it happens to some other school - especially if it fits our narrow agendas.

Just my 2 cents.


A BC and an ND fan defending Rutgers.....strange times we live in, bros.

Indeed they are, indeed they are.



-Standing slow clap-04-rock
09-15-2015 07:19 PM
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allthatyoucantleavebehind Offline
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Post: #55
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
As a Big Ten fan, I don't like to see Rutgers struggle like they have (off the field even more than on!).

I would love to have them be a good tier 2 team for the conference in football. An occasional top 20 finish...usually above .500...and only rarely .500 or below. It'd be good for the whole conference to have them relevant as our eastern flank.

And obviously it'd be nice to have them have a better reputation that what they've been getting these past two years off the field.
09-15-2015 07:20 PM
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miko33 Offline
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RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 07:20 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  As a Big Ten fan, I don't like to see Rutgers struggle like they have (off the field even more than on!).

I would love to have them be a good tier 2 team for the conference in football. An occasional top 20 finish...usually above .500...and only rarely .500 or below. It'd be good for the whole conference to have them relevant as our eastern flank.

And obviously it'd be nice to have them have a better reputation that what they've been getting these past two years off the field.

Rutgers off field issues pale in comparison to another eastern B1G school that I know...
09-15-2015 07:30 PM
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NittanyLion Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 07:30 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Rutgers off field issues pale in comparison to another eastern B1G school that I know...

I notice you missed the phrase "the historical off-the-field issues" in that phrase.

Fair enough if people like you want to hold it over PSU's head for the next 7,321,432 years, but Penn State served their NCAA penalties and (the University itself) did not complain about said penalties. It is over. And we have no current off-the-field issues.
09-15-2015 07:46 PM
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Post: #58
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 10:32 AM)connecticutguy Wrote:  It's clear the Big 10 should have taken UConn instead of Rutgers. They can still add UConn so if Rutgers has to drop out of the Big because of scandals, the Big has a solid university as a member.

LOL!

Penn State survived a scandal involving SERIAL CHILD RAPE.

You think there is a scandal that would force the B10 to drop Rutgers and take UConn instead???

LOL!
09-15-2015 08:19 PM
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Post: #59
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 07:46 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  
(09-15-2015 07:30 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Rutgers off field issues pale in comparison to another eastern B1G school that I know...

I notice you missed the phrase "the historical off-the-field issues" in that phrase.

Fair enough if people like you want to hold it over PSU's head for the next 7,321,432 years, but Penn State served their NCAA penalties and (the University itself) did not complain about said penalties. It is over. And we have no current off-the-field issues.

It's always amazed me that Penn State fans have not owned up to what happened in their ow facility and then get indignant when others "hold it over their heads."

Dude... Your former DC...was RAPING...little boys...in your athletic facilities. And your administration...to one extent or another...KNEW about it.

And NO, you didn't "pay the penalties," they were suspended and then removed.
09-15-2015 08:27 PM
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NittanyLion Offline
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Post: #60
RE: ANOTHER Rutgers football player arrested (10% of roster now in jail or out on bond)
(09-15-2015 08:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  It's always amazed me that Penn State fans have not owned up to what happened in their ow facility and then get indignant when others "hold it over their heads."

Dude... Your former DC...was RAPING...little boys...in your athletic facilities. And your administration...to one extent or another...KNEW about it.

And NO, you didn't "pay the penalties," they were suspended and then removed.

I have owned up to what happened there. Note the bolded word: I.

As for the "penalties being suspended and then removed" --- all of the following DID happen: Penn State paid a $60MM fine, had some sort of substantial scholarship reductions for the 2012-2014 seasons, and was banned from bowl games for 2 years.

So ... yes, while penalties were reduced, it's not like there were no penalties served. Absolutely there was punishment.

And as I said, Penn State University --- get this right: the University, not people like the Paternos who are suing the NCAA --- served said penalties without complaint and without suing.

The time for debating what the penalties would be is over: that was 2012. Now it is 2015, the penalties have been served, and I look forward to the forging of a new and bright future for MY university. ABSOLUTELY I am going to say "that is in the past, it does not deserve to be held over the heads of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of people who represent Penn State University" when people do so.

Fair enough if you don't like my lecture, but that's my view, and I will state it when people throw in gratuitous cheap shots (seriously, this thread was about RUTGERS, not us).
09-15-2015 09:08 PM
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