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CUSA vs AAC Academics
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WIowl Offline
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Post: #1
CUSA vs AAC Academics
Although it is not a jump to a P5 conference, I still believe Rice should join the AAC conference, based on academic reasons alone.

Here are the latest US News Rankings:

CUSA:
Rice - 18
UAB - 149
Charlotte - 194
LA Tech - 199
FAU - NR
FIU - NR
MTSU - NR
UNT - NR
ODU - NR
USM - NR
UTEP - NR
UTSA - NR
WKU - Regional
Marshall - Regional

AAC:
Tulane - 41
Connecticut - 57
SMU - 61
Tulsa - 86
Temple - 115
Cincinnati - 140
South Florida - 156
Central Florida - 168
Houston - 187
ECU - 194
Memphis - NR
09-09-2015 10:04 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #2
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 10:04 AM)WIowl Wrote:  Although it is not a jump to a P5 conference, I still believe Rice should join the AAC conference, based on academic reasons alone.

If only it were that simple, I would agree!
09-09-2015 10:25 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
I wouldn't. Essentially we're saying that we should continue to try and travel in a pack with SMU, Tulane and Tulsa....

But they all dumped us for UH. We're better, but we apparently value them more than they value us.

Outside of UConn, nobody else is particularly stellar academically... and while USNWR doesn't rank some of the regional universities we are now in league with, many other services do. I don't really see a big difference in academic reputation between most of these other schools if you take those 4 out.

There may be other reasons to change leagues, but I just don't see that as a big one... and obviously they don't want us.
09-09-2015 12:06 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
I really get tired of the, "Rice should this conference," or, "Rice should play that opponent," posts, although I suppose I should find them amusing. Rice can't join any conference that doesn't want Rice, and right now the list of conferences that want Rice has one name on it. And Rice can't play anyone who doesn't want to play Rice, and that's a fairly short list as well. Thee are things that I would like to have seen us do with regard to both in the past, when we had opportunities and alternatives. But those ships have sailed, and all we can do now is make the best of our lot. Win 10 football games year in and year out, go to the NCAA basketball tournament repeatedly and keep dancing for a while, and get baseball back to Omaha on a regular basis. Then people will want us. Take care of what we can, and what we can't will take care of itself.
09-09-2015 12:32 PM
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MartelOwl_08 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
Sorry, but do you really think that the quality of the academics at all of the sub-50 universities is really better on one list than the other?

These rankings would have you believe that the following universities are better places academically than UNT, MTSU, UNCC, and LaTech: Tulsa, Temple, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, UH, and ECU (tied with UNCC). I'm not sure there's much of a difference between that whole group. In the end, you're basing your conclusion that we should join the AAC based on a very flawed ranking that does not involve academics in the ranking. Look at the USNews methodology, and the universities that perform the best on this thing are (1) the ones which get the most of their alumni to donate back and (2) selectivity of the university and high test scores/GPAs of incoming students. These are not measures of academics.

If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.
09-09-2015 12:41 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #6
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.
09-09-2015 12:54 PM
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owl95 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

At least we went up a spot this year. It's been years since we actually climbed a spot in the USNWR list.
09-09-2015 01:09 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #8
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 01:09 PM)owl95 Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

At least we went up a spot this year. It's been years since we actually climbed a spot in the USNWR list.

FWIW, here's a link to the full ranking of "national universities": http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...ities/data
09-09-2015 01:28 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #9
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list.

I'm surprised that Vanderbilt's freshman acceptance rate is 2% better than Rice's: 13.1% vs 15.1%.
09-09-2015 01:58 PM
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ChicagoOwl (BS '07) Offline
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Post: #10
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

If I had to choose between bad alternatives, I'd rather be tied with Emory than Vandy or ND. Really don't have anything in common with ND .. and very little with Vandy.
09-09-2015 02:02 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 01:58 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list.

I'm surprised that Vanderbilt's freshman acceptance rate is 2% better than Rice's: 13.1% vs 15.1%.

I would guess it's tied to being in the SEC, much higher application #s.
09-09-2015 02:41 PM
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75src Offline
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Post: #12
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
The only other university on the 2 lists that I know is an American Association of Universities member is Tulane. The AAU has only 60 members which are the top research universities and Rice is a member. But conferences pick members based on television sets not academics.
09-09-2015 03:19 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #13
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 03:19 PM)75src Wrote:  The only other university on the 2 lists that I know is an American Association of Universities member is Tulane. The AAU has only 60 members which are the top research universities and Rice is a member. But conferences pick members based on television sets not academics.

Ask a Cougar about the AAU and he will talk about summer basketball tournaments. Seriously though when it was announced that the Carnegie had named UH a Tier One research institution someone on Coogfans said the next goal was membership in the AAU. There were replies about what was that and wasn't it just some sort of fraternal type organization.
09-09-2015 03:23 PM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #14
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 02:02 PM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

If I had to choose between bad alternatives, I'd rather be tied with Emory than Vandy or ND. Really don't have anything in common with ND .. and very little with Vandy.

I would rather be tied with Notre Dame, because my daughter is an alum.
09-09-2015 04:58 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #15
RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

What is your argument against Vandy and ND being on the list? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to steal your arguments for next time I talk to Vandy or ND people.
09-09-2015 06:06 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 06:06 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:41 PM)MartelOwl_08 Wrote:  If this ranking was based on academics, then I would think that Vanderbilt would not be higher than Rice on the list. We would not be tied with ND, and Stanford would tie for #1.

Haha those were the exact schools I singled out in my complaints when I read the list. At least we aren't tied with Emory anymore, I was always annoyed with that one too.

What is your argument against Vandy and ND being on the list? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to steal your arguments for next time I talk to Vandy or ND people.

It is just my personal experience from people I know who attended those schools. The top students are just as good as Rice students (same can be said of schools like A&M and UT) but there are kids who would have no business being at Rice. In north Alabama Vandy is the default school for the well off families who have kids that are good students but not academic superstars. A lot of the time one of the parents went there. I think 9/70 of my private school class went to Vandy and one of the previous years I believe it was 10/65. For the southeast region I'd say Duke was always top dog while I was growing up with Vandy being a step behind. Maybe I always tied Rice to Duke because they are both the top universities in their region? Don't get me wrong Vandy and ND are good schools but a lot of the people I met at Rice were deciding between Duke/Stanford/Chicago/Northwestern and not so much Vandy, ND, and Emory.
09-09-2015 06:39 PM
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CrabCake Away
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RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I really get tired of the, "Rice should this conference," or, "Rice should play that opponent," posts, although I suppose I should find them amusing. Rice can't join any conference that doesn't want Rice, and right now the list of conferences that want Rice has one name on it. And Rice can't play anyone who doesn't want to play Rice, and that's a fairly short list as well. Thee are things that I would like to have seen us do with regard to both in the past, when we had opportunities and alternatives. But those ships have sailed, and all we can do now is make the best of our lot. Win 10 football games year in and year out, go to the NCAA basketball tournament repeatedly and keep dancing for a while, and get baseball back to Omaha on a regular basis. Then people will want us. Take care of what we can, and what we can't will take care of itself.

+1
09-09-2015 08:58 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #18
CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 12:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I wouldn't. Essentially we're saying that we should continue to try and travel in a pack with SMU, Tulane and Tulsa....

But they all dumped us for UH. We're better, but we apparently value them more than they value us.

Outside of UConn, nobody else is particularly stellar academically... and while USNWR doesn't rank some of the regional universities we are now in league with, many other services do. I don't really see a big difference in academic reputation between most of these other schools if you take those 4 out.

There may be other reasons to change leagues, but I just don't see that as a big one... and obviously they don't want us.

Agree 100%, Hambone.

"For academic reasons" I could still get excited about any conference with a school in the top 20/25 of those rankings. Nothing in the AAC that moves the needle for me (academically or otherwise) except for playing UH, which resumes next year anyway.
09-09-2015 09:46 PM
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MartelOwl_08 Offline
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RE: CUSA vs AAC Academics
(09-09-2015 06:39 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 06:06 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  What is your argument against Vandy and ND being on the list? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to steal your arguments for next time I talk to Vandy or ND people.

It is just my personal experience from people I know who attended those schools. The top students are just as good as Rice students (same can be said of schools like A&M and UT) but there are kids who would have no business being at Rice. In north Alabama Vandy is the default school for the well off families who have kids that are good students but not academic superstars. A lot of the time one of the parents went there. I think 9/70 of my private school class went to Vandy and one of the previous years I believe it was 10/65. For the southeast region I'd say Duke was always top dog while I was growing up with Vandy being a step behind. Maybe I always tied Rice to Duke because they are both the top universities in their region? Don't get me wrong Vandy and ND are good schools but a lot of the people I met at Rice were deciding between Duke/Stanford/Chicago/Northwestern and not so much Vandy, ND, and Emory.

Cr11 hit all of the main spots. I admit that my impression of ND is generally limited to doctoral programs and output - I don't generally see ND labs producing many patents and startups, or presenting much at national conferences. As for Vanderbilt - I can confirm from having TA'ed a number of classes while I was there that there are quite a bunch of people there who were Rice rejects. Having also worked at the Rice admissions office one summer (and having to reorganize a bunch of files, including the response cards from people who had decided not to come to campus), I can say for sure that people who turn down Rice typically do so to go to Stanford, Northwestern, MIT, or UT honors. Never once did I see someone state Vanderbilt on their card.

As a Vanderbilt TA, I also felt that engineering classes were generally easier (homeworks, tests, everything) and the average student's mental tools and career mindset was not as strong as the average Rice student. I felt like my classmates at Rice had strong drives to blaze their own trails to success, were eloquent, and had clear goals and ambitions which drove their selection of activities and investments outside of class. The average Vanderbilt student gave me the impression that they had a rich relative as a fallback plan, had pretty entitled attitudes (even non-premeds acted very premed-like with our grading), and were not as much of go-getters as Rice kids. Of course, I also met my share of people at Vandy who would have fit right in at Rice, but they were generally rare.

As a university, I generally felt free to debate controversial and hot-button topics with my peers at Rice, and I felt that the administration (at least in 2004-2008) treated us like adults and afforded a level of intellectual freedom and space to really grow. Vanderbilt tends to prefer being politically correct, and whenever some conflict came up where some person was offended by an event or some club (there were several in my time there), the administration generally stepped in like a parent stopping a quarrel between their toddlers. Vanderbilt generally markets itself to prospective students as a 'balanced' place where you can have the best academics and have a life. However, I don't really ever feel like the academics side of the equation was strong, in terms of peoples' work ethics and the quality of the product.

Overall, Vanderbilt and ND are stronger schools than a large percentage of the universities across the country, but I am going to stick up my nose here and say they don't belong in the same conversation when we talk about the strongest academic institutions in the country.
09-10-2015 10:56 AM
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