that the anti-law enforcement movement was going to lead to this.

http://wbtw.com/2015/09/04/sc-highway-pa...pplicants/

Quote:The South Carolina Highway Patrol is planning to hire more troopers than usual next year to try to bring down the state’s rising highway death rate, but it’s having a hard time with recruiting.

“With the recent anti-law enforcement sentiment that’s been going across the country, we, along with other law enforcement agencies, are feeling those effects. There’s no doubt about that,” says Lt. Kelley Hughes, a spokesman for the agency.

Law enforcement officers across the country are under increased scrutiny because of shootings and deaths of people in custody, and they’ve also become targets. Last week, Deputy Darren Goforth was pumping gas into his patrol car outside Houston when a man came up behind him and shot him in the back multiple times, killing him. This week, Illinois police Lt. Joe Gliniewicz was shot and killed and police are still looking for the killer or killers.

“With that current climate, we have seen a reduction in the number of applicants that we have apply for the agency,” Lt. Hughes says. “So we’re having to broaden what we do to try to reach more applicants, including going out of state. We need a large pool of applicants to be able to find the right people that can do this job and do it effectively, that want to do this job for the right reasons.”

Trump can get himself elected in a heartbeat if he personally chips in $10,000 apiece for each cops' yearly salary. He has all these billions so it would be a drop in the bucket for him. The nation's pulse is making it tough on new recruits but higher salaries would get the recruits back to where they need to be.

(09-05-2015 06:28 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Trump can get himself elected in a heartbeat if he personally chips in $10,000 apiece for each cops' yearly salary. He has all these billions so it would be a drop in the bucket for him. The nation's pulse is making it tough on new recruits but higher salaries would get the recruits back to where they need to be.

You think 10k is enough to motivate you to patrol such fine neighborhoods like Camden, East STL, South Chicago etc?

Cops need to get a degree. Offering more money is just going to attract more bad cops. Raise the standards and you'll get better cops .

Good, honest, fair-minded, law abiding people make good police.
Degrees don't ensure good police any more than they ensure good people.
Some of the best cops I know do not have degrees.
Plenty of training yes but not necessarily degrees.

Joining the police force used to be a way of life for some families and a solid way to provide a middle class lifestyle even considering that there was some danger to the job. Being a police person was a respected career choice.

Problem with today's police as compared to the past is that many of the people who would make great police and might've considered it as a profession in the past wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole given the ever increasing dangers of the job and lack of respect for the job.

The problem is both with the anti-police crowd and the (of course not all) police culture itself.

Both cultures are very reactionary. The anti-police crowd want to condemn the profession and the police culture doesn't want to even entertain the thought that maybe there are some habits that need to change.

(09-13-2015 11:20 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Good, honest, fair-minded, law abiding people make good police.
Degrees don't ensure good police any more than they ensure good people.
Some of the best cops I know do not have degrees.
Plenty of training yes but not necessarily degrees.

Joining the police force used to be a way of life for some families and a solid way to provide a middle class lifestyle even considering that there was some danger to the job. Being a police person was a respected career choice.

Problem with today's police as compared to the past is that many of the people who would make great police and might've considered it as a profession in the past wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole given the ever increasing dangers of the job and lack of respect for the job.

There is no increasing danger. That's been proven to be a myth.

(09-13-2015 12:52 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 11:20 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Good, honest, fair-minded, law abiding people make good police.
Degrees don't ensure good police any more than they ensure good people.
Some of the best cops I know do not have degrees.
Plenty of training yes but not necessarily degrees.

Joining the police force used to be a way of life for some families and a solid way to provide a middle class lifestyle even considering that there was some danger to the job. Being a police person was a respected career choice.

Problem with today's police as compared to the past is that many of the people who would make great police and might've considered it as a profession in the past wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole given the ever increasing dangers of the job and lack of respect for the job.

There is no increasing danger. That's been proven to be a myth.

I have read stories that say it is getting safer and others stating it is more dangerous...

but for most people perception is reality and the perception is that it is more dangerous.

The reality is that anyone short of having a criminal record can be a cop. That needs to change.

(09-13-2015 01:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The reality is that anyone short of having a criminal record can be a cop. That needs to change.

On that point I totally agree...
allowing those with a criminal records to become police supports my contention that the bar has been lowered due to good folks not being interested in the profession any more.

99% of police do a great job. However there are a select few who give the rest a bad name and cause lots of civil strife. It's almost as if theyve forgotten their job , to serve the community , not to bludgeon people.

(09-13-2015 12:52 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no increasing danger. That's been proven to be a myth.

No it hasn't.

(09-13-2015 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Cops need to get a degree. Offering more money is just going to attract more bad cops. Raise the standards and you'll get better cops .

Does having a degree make teachers better? Because tests results say otherwise. Raising standards is one thing, but this idea that a degree makes someone a better candidate is needless credentialism.

(09-14-2015 08:02 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Cops need to get a degree. Offering more money is just going to attract more bad cops. Raise the standards and you'll get better cops .

Does having a degree make teachers better? Because tests results say otherwise. Raising standards is one thing, but this idea that a degree makes someone a better candidate is needless credentialism.

Then why do you think a degree is required for teachers?

A degree doesn't make every teacher better but what it does is create another layer of passage before they can even consider the position. This weeds out a lot of people who just think it would be a cool job.

There is no such layer of passage for a police officer. At the moment, if you have a relatively clean record and can do a couple of push ups, you can be a cop.

That just isn't acceptable if you want dedicated officers.

Ha. I have had teachers ask me " to use smaller words" while having a conversation! Nice try Fit!

(09-13-2015 11:44 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The problem is both with the anti-police crowd and the (of course not all) police culture itself.

Both cultures are very reactionary. The anti-police crowd want to condemn the profession and the police culture doesn't want to even entertain the thought that maybe there are some habits that need to change.

The sad part is that at least some of the decisions that have contributed to the problem are purely political decisions - broken windows policing, and pressure on police departments to raise funds for cities by issuing tickets and other fines. In those cases, the police suffer the blame for political decisions.

(09-14-2015 10:43 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 11:44 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The problem is both with the anti-police crowd and the (of course not all) police culture itself.

Both cultures are very reactionary. The anti-police crowd want to condemn the profession and the police culture doesn't want to even entertain the thought that maybe there are some habits that need to change.

The sad part is that at least some of the decisions that have contributed to the problem are purely political decisions - broken windows policing, and pressure on police departments to raise funds for cities by issuing tickets and other fines. In those cases, the police suffer the blame for political decisions.

I totally agree. Police should not be doing "broken window" policing or issuing tickets to raise funds. That is definitely part of the problem.

(09-13-2015 01:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 12:52 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no increasing danger. That's been proven to be a myth.

I have read stories that say it is getting safer and others stating it is more dangerous...
but for most people perception is reality and the perception is that it is more dangerous.

The idea that this is a "proven myth" needs to be looked at very carefully. Statistically, it may be that police deaths are down. But, it can still be true that there is an increasing number of police officers that are being targeted and assassinated. It may be that police deaths are down because they are not proactively engaging high crime areas in an effort to reduce police shootings of suspects that have become so inflammatory (thus also reducing situations where they are putting themselves at risk). So, police shootings of suspects should go down, shootings of police by criminals should go down, and shootings of innocent people by criminals will probably go up. That is one very plausible mechanism by which overall police deaths can go down while assassination of police can simultaneously go up.

If you make the claim that such assassinations are a myth, then you really need to show statistics that relate specifically to that situation, and not just the overall statistics.

We have had a number of bobcat sightings in our neighborhood, and people have tried to say that more people are killed by family dogs than bobcats, therefore bobcats are not as dangerous as family dogs... therefore, animal control should not try to capture the bobcats. BS.

(09-14-2015 11:04 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 01:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 12:52 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no increasing danger. That's been proven to be a myth.

I have read stories that say it is getting safer and others stating it is more dangerous...
but for most people perception is reality and the perception is that it is more dangerous.

The idea that this is a "proven myth" needs to be looked at very carefully. Statistically, it may be that police deaths are down. But, it can still be true that there is an increasing number of police officers that are being targeted and assassinated. It may be that police deaths are down because they are not proactively engaging high crime areas in an effort to reduce police shootings of suspects that have become so inflammatory (thus also reducing situations where they are putting themselves at risk). So, police shootings of suspects should go down, shootings of police by criminals should go down, and shootings of innocent people by criminals will probably go up. That is one very plausible mechanism by which overall police deaths can go down while assassination of police can simultaneously go up.

If you make the claim that such assassinations are a myth, then you really need to show statistics that relate specifically to that situation, and not just the overall statistics.

We have had a number of bobcat sightings in our neighborhood, and people have tried to say that more people are killed by family dogs than bobcats, therefore bobcats are not as dangerous as family dogs... therefore, animal control should not try to capture the bobcats. BS.

It would be very difficult to determine if that has in fact been an increase of specific police death by assassination because that would seem to be a matter of opinion from place to place.

For example, the one that happened yesterday isn't an assassination in my opinion because it was part of a traffic stop.

(09-14-2015 09:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 08:02 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-13-2015 10:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Cops need to get a degree. Offering more money is just going to attract more bad cops. Raise the standards and you'll get better cops .

Does having a degree make teachers better? Because tests results say otherwise. Raising standards is one thing, but this idea that a degree makes someone a better candidate is needless credentialism.

Then why do you think a degree is required for teachers?

A degree doesn't make every teacher better but what it does is create another layer of passage before they can even consider the position. This weeds out a lot of people who just think it would be a cool job.

There is no such layer of passage for a police officer. At the moment, if you have a relatively clean record and can do a couple of push ups, you can be a cop.

That just isn't acceptable if you want dedicated officers.

You know good and well that a degree to teach is only a recent standard. One that in no way has led to the improvement of the public education system. You want better cops, conduct psyche evals for cops upon entry and bi-annually to try and understand how dealing with the more unsavory parts of society.