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What will it take to turn Colorado around?
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-07-2015 12:54 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 11:05 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 10:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  C'mon. People are going overboard here. There are a few places where it is *structurally* hard to build a great football program, such as Indiana (where football is truly a placeholder until basketball season and the competition is massive in the Big Ten East). Colorado isn't one of them - they're like 90% of programs that are basically up-and-down with how their current coach is performing. If anything, Colorado has a ton to offer - a great college town with a flagship university and excellent academics. The "Colorado just likes pro sports" excuse is bunk - I abhor that excuse for college teams because every market that is worth anything is a pro sports town. No one anywhere loves a pro sports team more than Wisconsin natives love the Packers, yet the University of Wisconsin, where Madison has as much of a leftist hippy quotient as Boulder, has managed to find great success in football (and basketball, for that matter).

Colorado can absolutely win again. They have made bad hiring decisions, but there is nothing structurally holding them back and they offer quite a bit more in terms of location compared to most other P5 programs.
I have great respect for you, put the pro sport effect is not an excuse and is 100% legit. There is no city that has an NFL team that puts its college ahead of the pro team. None.

I don't disagree with your statement - the NFL is king everywhere. However, my whole point is that NFL success and college football fandom aren't mutually exclusive. See my Wisconsin example. Look at Miami in the past. The state of Texas manages to love the Cowboys plus its college and high school teams. Ohio State draws most of its students from 3 hardcore NFL areas (Cleveland, Cincinnati and the area west of Pittsburgh). Atlanta has the NFL but is still a massive college football town. Detroit amazingly still sells out every Lions game and then also sends over 100,000 to Ann Arbor and 80,000 to East Lansing every week.

Large markets have the ability to have multiple allegiances to different teams and sports. They absolutely shouldn't be used as an excuse because those pro markets are where most alums live.

Sure, they're not totally mutually exclusive. But your examples prove you wrong.

Take Ohio State, for example. They get a lot of students from Cleveland, Cincy, & Pittsburgh, but most of its fans live in Columbus, rural Ohio, and the parts of NE Ohio outside of Cleveland (such as Akron, Canton, Youngstown). I went to school in Cleveland, and Browns fans were 10 times more prevalent than OSU fans. Even in Cincinnati - there's surprisingly few people who root for UC and the Bengals. Most Bengals fans are either OSU, Kentucky, or Xavier fans.

I would assume that the same is true for Penn State, Texas, Michigan State, etc. Most of their hardcore fans don't live in the pro cities of the state. Atlanta is an exception because most people who live there moved there from other parts of the South and brought their previous team with them. You're probably right about Michigan, but one example doesn't prove that it's an easy thing to do. Having the winningest football program of all time makes it a bit easier to maintain a fanbase through the years.
09-09-2015 08:13 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
The CO AD was talked about for the UofI AD position. If that were to happen that would give CO an opportunity to hire someone who can get it done.
09-09-2015 08:23 AM
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TheNealT Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-09-2015 08:23 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  The CO AD was talked about for the UofI AD position. If that were to happen that would give CO an opportunity to hire someone who can get it done.

Can anyone with a degree from a real school translate that for me??

Either way, he would be a great get for Illinois, bring several of the big donors back on board..
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2015 08:56 AM by TheNealT.)
09-09-2015 08:34 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-09-2015 08:13 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 12:54 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 11:05 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 10:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  C'mon. People are going overboard here. There are a few places where it is *structurally* hard to build a great football program, such as Indiana (where football is truly a placeholder until basketball season and the competition is massive in the Big Ten East). Colorado isn't one of them - they're like 90% of programs that are basically up-and-down with how their current coach is performing. If anything, Colorado has a ton to offer - a great college town with a flagship university and excellent academics. The "Colorado just likes pro sports" excuse is bunk - I abhor that excuse for college teams because every market that is worth anything is a pro sports town. No one anywhere loves a pro sports team more than Wisconsin natives love the Packers, yet the University of Wisconsin, where Madison has as much of a leftist hippy quotient as Boulder, has managed to find great success in football (and basketball, for that matter).

Colorado can absolutely win again. They have made bad hiring decisions, but there is nothing structurally holding them back and they offer quite a bit more in terms of location compared to most other P5 programs.
I have great respect for you, put the pro sport effect is not an excuse and is 100% legit. There is no city that has an NFL team that puts its college ahead of the pro team. None.

I don't disagree with your statement - the NFL is king everywhere. However, my whole point is that NFL success and college football fandom aren't mutually exclusive. See my Wisconsin example. Look at Miami in the past. The state of Texas manages to love the Cowboys plus its college and high school teams. Ohio State draws most of its students from 3 hardcore NFL areas (Cleveland, Cincinnati and the area west of Pittsburgh). Atlanta has the NFL but is still a massive college football town. Detroit amazingly still sells out every Lions game and then also sends over 100,000 to Ann Arbor and 80,000 to East Lansing every week.

Large markets have the ability to have multiple allegiances to different teams and sports. They absolutely shouldn't be used as an excuse because those pro markets are where most alums live.

Sure, they're not totally mutually exclusive. But your examples prove you wrong.

Take Ohio State, for example. They get a lot of students from Cleveland, Cincy, & Pittsburgh, but most of its fans live in Columbus, rural Ohio, and the parts of NE Ohio outside of Cleveland (such as Akron, Canton, Youngstown). I went to school in Cleveland, and Browns fans were 10 times more prevalent than OSU fans. Even in Cincinnati - there's surprisingly few people who root for UC and the Bengals. Most Bengals fans are either OSU, Kentucky, or Xavier fans.

I would assume that the same is true for Penn State, Texas, Michigan State, etc. Most of their hardcore fans don't live in the pro cities of the state. Atlanta is an exception because most people who live there moved there from other parts of the South and brought their previous team with them. You're probably right about Michigan, but one example doesn't prove that it's an easy thing to do. Having the winningest football program of all time makes it a bit easier to maintain a fanbase through the years.

I would go even further and say that it's very difficult for a metro region to strongly support any two teams that play at the same time.

How many cities support more than one strong NBA and NHL franchise? Chicago, and Toronto .... that's it. Of the rest, not a single other city consistently places 2 teams in the top half of attendance in both leagues. On top of that, since 1975, 7 of the 10 cities that lost NHL franchises had NBA franchises.

Of the 4 cities with multiple MLB franchises, 3 of them finished in the bottom 10 of attendance last year (Mets, White Sox, Oakland).
09-09-2015 08:47 AM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #45
Re: RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-07-2015 11:05 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  
(09-07-2015 10:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  C'mon. People are going overboard here. There are a few places where it is *structurally* hard to build a great football program, such as Indiana (where football is truly a placeholder until basketball season and the competition is massive in the Big Ten East). Colorado isn't one of them - they're like 90% of programs that are basically up-and-down with how their current coach is performing. If anything, Colorado has a ton to offer - a great college town with a flagship university and excellent academics. The "Colorado just likes pro sports" excuse is bunk - I abhor that excuse for college teams because every market that is worth anything is a pro sports town. No one anywhere loves a pro sports team more than Wisconsin natives love the Packers, yet the University of Wisconsin, where Madison has as much of a leftist hippy quotient as Boulder, has managed to find great success in football (and basketball, for that matter).

Colorado can absolutely win again. They have made bad hiring decisions, but there is nothing structurally holding them back and they offer quite a bit more in terms of location compared to most other P5 programs.
I have great respect for you, put the pro sport effect is not an excuse and is 100% legit. There is no city that has an NFL team that puts its college ahead of the pro team. None.
You are wrong officially and technically. Arizona State plays in Phoenix just like the Arizona Cardinals, and from what I can tell, ASU draws a lot better than the Cards and the Sun Devils have much more of a fan following than the Cards too. Technically, UGa is an Atlanta team, and they draw a lot better than the Falcons.
09-09-2015 09:09 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-09-2015 02:38 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 01:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-08-2015 11:20 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(09-08-2015 09:17 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(09-08-2015 08:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Because by your rules, Arizona State should never have been able to get themselves out of the basement of college football like they have. Yet, they have.

first off, I lived in Phoenix for awhile like every good Iowan has. i still have "snow bird" family in Phoenix and Scottsdale. I've been to the fiesta bowl (ASU's Sun Devil stadium in Tempe) a dozen times at least.... Maybe you aren't aware, but ASU was good at football BEFORE the Cardinals came to play in their stadium. The Cardinals played in ASU's stadium for most their history. They "were out of the basement" long before the NFL came to Phoenix. Since University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale opened up I've noticed a bit of an uptick in the NFL to the detriment of ASU though. I work out there a lot, but haven't lived there since 2004. I see ASU football decreasing in popularity in football over the past 10, 15 years since Jake the Snake in 96. Cheers!

And yet the success of Sun Devil football has risen. The slow decrease of popularity that you saw was due to the decreasing quality of the Stadium. It was old and badly needed renovations, which it received and is continuing to receive.

We are talking about how Colorado could be a successful program and how being in a large market keeps it from happening. Arizona State is a perfect example of how that theory is false.

What exactly has Arizona State accomplished?

Oh here we go. Look here troll, would you like to say that the Colorado football program and Arizona State football program are at the same point right now? You aren't even following what the thread is about are you?


So what you are saying is you can't answer the question and have to resort to personal attacks?
09-09-2015 01:42 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What will it take to turn Colorado around?
(09-09-2015 01:42 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 02:38 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 01:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-08-2015 11:20 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(09-08-2015 09:17 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  first off, I lived in Phoenix for awhile like every good Iowan has. i still have "snow bird" family in Phoenix and Scottsdale. I've been to the fiesta bowl (ASU's Sun Devil stadium in Tempe) a dozen times at least.... Maybe you aren't aware, but ASU was good at football BEFORE the Cardinals came to play in their stadium. The Cardinals played in ASU's stadium for most their history. They "were out of the basement" long before the NFL came to Phoenix. Since University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale opened up I've noticed a bit of an uptick in the NFL to the detriment of ASU though. I work out there a lot, but haven't lived there since 2004. I see ASU football decreasing in popularity in football over the past 10, 15 years since Jake the Snake in 96. Cheers!

And yet the success of Sun Devil football has risen. The slow decrease of popularity that you saw was due to the decreasing quality of the Stadium. It was old and badly needed renovations, which it received and is continuing to receive.

We are talking about how Colorado could be a successful program and how being in a large market keeps it from happening. Arizona State is a perfect example of how that theory is false.

What exactly has Arizona State accomplished?

Oh here we go. Look here troll, would you like to say that the Colorado football program and Arizona State football program are at the same point right now? You aren't even following what the thread is about are you?


So what you are saying is you can't answer the question and have to resort to personal attacks?

What I am saying is that the question has an obvious answer. Arizona State does not equal Colorado and you know it. I would say you are trying to be a smart ass about the obvious nature of the comparison but you aren't being smart at all.

It's not a personal attack if it is just stating the obvious. If you take it as a personal attack then go look in the mirror.
09-09-2015 06:14 PM
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